http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/meeks/ en Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:09:42 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/misc/rss.jpg http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/meeks/ http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/meeks/1457-ret-problem-larger-paladin-implications.html Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:58:57 GMT I will preface this by saying that I am not even a ret pally. I spec ret maybe once a month to do a couple BGs and maybe a few arenas with whichever random person in the guild is around at the time. I did not even level as ret like most paladins, I did a prot aoe grinding routine. I raid as prot and my secondary is holy. However as some of you may be able to tell I am a little OCD about knowing everything I can even if I do not plan on doing anything with it. I have collected a full ret set that is gemmed and enchanted properly and learned my rotations even if I rarely use them.

That being said as someone who has been around since the original beta I have witnessed a roller coaster in the paladin class that is rivaled only by druids in vanilla. I remember at launch when seal of the crusader increased you attack speed by 40% but did not lower your damage per swing and pallies of all specs were running around taking names and eating babies. Though that was more of a general paladin problem rather then a ret issue so I digress. Ret was originally very strong and probably overpowered in the initial beta and got nerfed into uselessness on the eve of launch, an issue that was exacerbated by the crusader issue which allowed any spec to do the damage of ret.

More to the point there were only a couple brave souls that even bothered with the spec and that was only to get Kings which used to be the end ret talent. The game was still in a stage where classes did not know what there roles were and the community at large reached the conclusion that every class had 1 role and for paladins it was healing. Paladins in fact made very good healers and great dispellers(something that was needed much more in vanilla then currently) and coupled with the miserable ret tree and the even more laughable prot tree this was easily reinforced.

Then came the BC beta where Blizzard decided to salvage the ret tree(along with all they hybrids) and from playing in the BC beta I can tell you that they were in no way over powered at 70, even a little. They then released the lvl 70 talents for 60s and this went nuts. As you know stam increased exponentially going from vanilla to BC...but with the new crusader strike paladins were killing people within 1 hoj in ways more gruesome then what happened these past weeks(not to mention hunters and mages were doing the same thing). Blizzard caved to the QQ and nerfed crusader strike and ret became a joke once again when they hit level 70 and it was months until they got the previous nerf reverted but by then it was too late. Ret maintained is status as lolret and the few guilds that carried one did it for the 3% crit and refreshed judgments and these few brave souls got through raids by chain chugging mana pots every cooldown.

Now we are at the Wotlk beta and things are repeating themselves for the thrid straight time. Ret got buffed a little to hard for level 80 and the second the talents were released at 70 ret was killing things way to fast and Blizzard panicked, again. WWS after the nerfs show one of the top ret paladins in beta having to chug a mana pot and SEVEN dark runes to have enough mana to finish #11 on dps in a naxx fight where he does bonus damage as the target is undead. The thing that scares me is that the community seems to be happy with this. Not to mention that other classes were bursting just as ahrd as ret and still are and there are virtually no complaints. Arcane mages are still untouched and they can do pre-nerf ret burst from range and no one says a thing. Boomkins are critting starfire for nearly 7k from range and often kill me before I am in range to stun them. But ret paladins do damage for 2 days and it was hotfixed.

This brings to my main point which surprisingly has nothing to do with balance. I tank in raids and when I am not tanking I am healing, yet I have taken more crap these past few weeks then at any point in my wow career. I have people bitching to me constantly about ret. I even get blamed when not enough healers log on to raid even though i am there ready to go in my tanking gear and both the guilds holy paladins are there specced accordingly. But still it is out fault.

Even on this site which I consider my safe haven from this abuse I have been taking it. Even cider who is usually an even keel has acted agitated about paladins and has responded to people in ways I have never imagined. The problem has more to do with the fact that holy paladins are essentially the exact same healer they were from day 1 of the beta. The only new heal they have received is beacon which is an extremely disappointing attempt at group healing. Holy paladins have sat there and gone from kings of healing and watched every other class get new hots and group heals and even stronger single target heals. Yet blizzard has refused to do anything to alleviate problems of holy paladins for probably the same reason that ret gets bounced around so much.

To me the kicker is the multiple times GC has talked on other healers beta boards talking about giving them tools like a flash heal(to druids) and making sure priests had exceptionally strong direct tank heals. Ok so every healer gets a flash and a greater heal...but paladins are the only class that dont get hots and group which every single other healer has now? Paladin healing is boring unless you like whack-a-mole and has not changed ever...everything we have other healers can cover yet we can't get a even a taste of what they have. It is maddening to be so frustrated with the spec only to turn around and get yelled at because someone just got owned by a ret pally.

The reaction from the community has resulted in a constant feeling of being besieged even in my places of refuge and is really pushing me to just stop playing as I see no hope that Blizzard will ever relent on paladins of any spec as it has become obvious to anyone who has watched their history that they are willing to cave to the community and cave fast and hard. I do not care how much reassuring words GC offers his actions speak to me much louder. I should have known better before I trusted that this time things would be different.

Edit: The fact that ret was too strong at 70 was more then obvious. The fact that ret was op at 80 is less obvious but plausible...they were not top dps but they were near the top and ahead of some "pure classes". A reasonable nerf for 80 would have been warranted at this stage. It is simply way to late in the beta for changes of this magnitude to be entered...this is not just a dps rebalanced but a fundamental change in the way ret needs to be played taking away nearly everything they had earned in finally being able to use mana for more then just barely keeping your rotation going. In fact ret can not even keep their rotation going anymore as a full rotation means oom in under 2 minutes and 3 weeks from launch there is little hope to get things where they need to be, if blizzard will even admit there is a problem now. The same exact thing has now happened in every wow beta and it would take an idiot not to start connecting the dots. Barring major new developments ret is going to suck for a few months after launch after which it will get some tweaks to make it a little better until the next beta where they will again promise to fix us and screw it up yet again.

How much damage ret does however is not the reason for this long rant. I do not need replies about how ret pallies destroyed you and so forth. This post is about the communities perceived anger towards anything unique about pallies. Holy will continue to be good tank healers who suck at everything else and the same people who enjoy whack-a-mole will prob continue to do it. Prot is actually looking good but even there Blizz seems to be intentionally keeping them slightly behind in terms of panick abilities, single target damage(not threat) and hp/gun slot...even if none of those are needed at all it is still annoying that they just don't fix it and remove all doubt. What is more annoying is that classes are pisses off that we got this much let alone the grief I take about ret pallies every day. I can't count the number of locks/mages/hunters that kill me before I can even get in range to stun yet that is fine. One person gets blown up by a paladin and the world has ended. The community seems to want paladins to be in a stage where any class can beat them...we seem to be supposed to counter no one. We have lost our identity as great healers with long staying power, are only just starting to gain an identity as tanks and our identity as dps has a bad case of schizophrenia. ]]> Meeks http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/meeks/1457-ret-problem-larger-paladin-implications.html http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/meeks/1406-soloing-ony.html Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:31:00 GMT I heard a few ret paladins did this on the ptr at level 70 so I decided I needed to give it a try. My ret gear has a lot of room for improvement but I was hoping I would be OP enough for that not to matter. Died about 5 times clearing the warders to ony...they were significantly harder then phase 1 ony. Finally get to ony and set up my rotation which is to use seal of light, judgement of light, divine storm, and art of war procs to keep healed. With my gear I was constantly having close calls. Had my first wipe when I went about 15 seconds without a crit so had no art of war proc and died as a result. Best attempt was phase 2 where I eventually died to a deep breath. I think I can get this before wotlk though. EDIT: well since this mourning this will no longer be possible as there will be no where near enough healing from divine storm/jol/sol to stay up. I heard a few ret paladins did this on the ptr at level 70 so I decided I needed to give it a try. My ret gear has a lot of room for improvement but I was hoping I would be OP enough for that not to matter.

Died about 5 times clearing the warders to ony...they were significantly harder then phase 1 ony. Finally get to ony and set up my rotation which is to use seal of light, judgement of light, divine storm, and art of war procs to keep healed. With my gear I was constantly having close calls. Had my first wipe when I went about 15 seconds without a crit so had no art of war proc and died as a result.

Best attempt was phase 2 where I eventually died to a deep breath. I think I can get this before wotlk though.

EDIT: well since this mourning this will no longer be possible as there will be no where near enough healing from divine storm/jol/sol to stay up. ]]> Meeks http://www.tankspot.com/forums/blogs/meeks/1406-soloing-ony.html