More drama = less win.
So, since this is my first blog post, maybe I should introduce myself.
Before i rolled my warrior, I played a Rogue in a very casual guild, which i eventually left, sometime doring TBC. I grabbed a couple of people, and started a guild, focusing on 10-man content.
Now, I lead a 10-man guild, that raids 3-4 times a week. I think I'd put us in the serious casual box, if anyone asked. Currently we are delving into 25-man raids, simply because we found that it eases out the progression curve from naxx-10 to ulduar-10.
This of course meant that we had to establish a second raid group, with all the drama that followed. Healers wanting to progress didnt want to raid naxx-10 anymore, naxx-25 raids was suddenly off the pug list, and all of a sudden, the people appointed as rg2 raid leaders turned out to be selfish, ill-tempered and greedy.
Yey.
Drama ensues. Ends up with RG2 leaders leaving the guild. And it got me thinking - problems in a guild need to be dealt with swiftly, or they will tear the guild apart.
I should have kicked at least one of them, the second the signs started showing. But I wanted more, I tasted the sweet sweet nectar of 25-man loot, and envious "omg nice gear" tells.
Fortunately it seems that most of our raiders will stay, and we can continue on, with more competent leaders for the second group.
Currently we are 4/14 in ulduar, which i think is fairly ok. Hell, we are just a bunch of guys with a jobs and girlfriends, that want to experience the end game raiding.
Tonight we are off to Ulduar again. I choose you, Steelbreaker.
Before i rolled my warrior, I played a Rogue in a very casual guild, which i eventually left, sometime doring TBC. I grabbed a couple of people, and started a guild, focusing on 10-man content.
Now, I lead a 10-man guild, that raids 3-4 times a week. I think I'd put us in the serious casual box, if anyone asked. Currently we are delving into 25-man raids, simply because we found that it eases out the progression curve from naxx-10 to ulduar-10.
This of course meant that we had to establish a second raid group, with all the drama that followed. Healers wanting to progress didnt want to raid naxx-10 anymore, naxx-25 raids was suddenly off the pug list, and all of a sudden, the people appointed as rg2 raid leaders turned out to be selfish, ill-tempered and greedy.
Yey.
Drama ensues. Ends up with RG2 leaders leaving the guild. And it got me thinking - problems in a guild need to be dealt with swiftly, or they will tear the guild apart.
I should have kicked at least one of them, the second the signs started showing. But I wanted more, I tasted the sweet sweet nectar of 25-man loot, and envious "omg nice gear" tells.
Fortunately it seems that most of our raiders will stay, and we can continue on, with more competent leaders for the second group.
Currently we are 4/14 in ulduar, which i think is fairly ok. Hell, we are just a bunch of guys with a jobs and girlfriends, that want to experience the end game raiding.
Tonight we are off to Ulduar again. I choose you, Steelbreaker.
Total Comments 4
Comments
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I'm in the same position as you, 4/14 and pretty happy with our progress. My guild has never had luck with 25's, although they did successfully raid 40mans pre-BC. We kinda put the 25's as pugs, do it as you want, but only get serious for the 10mans.
Best of luck with your raiding tonight, I hope the sky rains purples on your raid, and hopping bunnies fill you with joy.
/hee heePosted 05-28-2009 at 11:11 AM by Midelus
- Your plight is felt by many in leadership positions in this game we play. 10 man guilds sit at an interesting intersection of desires. We want to raid but those that raid wnat the best loot. The best loot comes from 25 man but we raid 10 man for a reason (whatever that may be, as it varies) suddenly you wind up with this massively confusing writhing mass of emotions and attitudes created by the opposing desires of the guild (hell in my guild we have several people with 4 different desires just for themselves and not a one of em lines up with any other).
Frustration is never ending in 10 man guilds. But the only way to alleviate it is to turn into a 25 man guild and that presents whole new frustrations... why is this game so damned frustrating?Posted 05-28-2009 at 03:09 PM by Bullwerk - I think one of the reasons that 10-mans become so frustrating is that you know you can prepare for ulduar-10 with naxx-25 man gear.
A fully decked out naxx-10 warrior will have a hard time against ulduar-10 bosses, simply getting a couple of 25-man pieces can help you out tremendously.
Thus, you can either bang your head against a wall in ulduar-10, or go to naxx-25 and ez-mode farm epics. New bosses are always fun, but for most 10 man guilds I think the solution to more and faster progress lies in more 25-man loot.Posted 05-29-2009 at 01:49 AM by manicus - I don't know what Blizzard was thinking when designing the 10/25-man model. Their interaction seems to be a failure. I'm sure progression was supposed to be:
Current tier 10 -> Current hard 10 -> Next tier 10
But instead the most efficient way to farm gear is:
Last tier 25 -> Current tier 10 -> Current tier 25 -> Maybe current 10 hard
Progression in Ulduar 10 is all fun and good, but It's hard to forge that simply plodding through easy Ulduar 25 bosses, and even last tier's 25 would give as good or better loot. The out of game effort of getting 25 people together beats in-game progression.
At the same time, I see all those coasting Naxx 25 guilds breaking up in order for some A team to do Ulduar 10 and presumably some B team not, or not as fast. Some of these groups had false hopes of progression.
Ghostcrawler has said that if the 10-man and 25-man loot was the same, that would be the end of 25-man raiding. Pretty obviously true in my view. But I do think the current system where you can do both is broken.
I think making people take either a 10-man or a 25-man progression (barring extreme effort) would be a good thing in my view. GC mooted that the loot could maybe be the same if the lock our was shared, but I think that would be the end of 25-mans, other things being equal.
My choice would be to make the loot about the same, but make 10-mans somewhat harder. That way a focused team can go 10-man while a larger team can enjoy less tight but more epic battles.Posted 05-29-2009 at 06:59 PM by Machus
