Blog from a dwarf warrior currently leading a casual raiding guild - Citadel (A) on The Scryers - Current progression - Kara 12/12, Gruuls 2/2, Mags 1/1, ZA 3/5
Been playin for just over 2 yrs, MMO experience from past 9.
Been playin for just over 2 yrs, MMO experience from past 9.
Should I push us to 25-mans?
Posted 07-10-2008 at 02:33 PM by kainelderan
So.. Citadel is a casual raiding guild. We currently raid Fri / Sat, and recently have been focusing on ZA on Sundays. We've got the numbers to do Gruul's... barely. I'm just torn as to whether we are ready. We've been running Kara for about 2 months or more, and we've got some people that are well geared, even beyond starting Gruul's. Problem is... we've also got quite a few that aren't. We were running 2 Kara teams at one point but quite a few were alts from one team. We've grown more since then and are trying to help those who need it get gear from Kara.
Right now I am seeing a trend of people that don't really need Kara doing other things or not really wanting to go unless absolutely needed. We also have a few running other stuff with other people. I am beginning to worry that those who are already progressed are ready to move on... but I'm also worried that we have too few truly ready.
How would you determine whether to move into 25-mans or stay in Kara/ZA?
Right now I am seeing a trend of people that don't really need Kara doing other things or not really wanting to go unless absolutely needed. We also have a few running other stuff with other people. I am beginning to worry that those who are already progressed are ready to move on... but I'm also worried that we have too few truly ready.
How would you determine whether to move into 25-mans or stay in Kara/ZA?
Total Comments 7
Comments
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I'm always a "Let's give it a shot" kinda guy, but before you can do Gruul you have to take down High King.
Things you need for High King:
1 mage w/ 10k health unbuffed (not really that hard)
2 warlocks (for pet enslaving/banishing. 1 can do it but 2 gives you some leeway when you're first starting out)
Then your general assortment of tanks, healer & dps. We had a bit of trouble at first because we either never had tanks or never had locks. Its better now but not always 100%.
Other than that you can look at be.imba to give you an idea of where your key players are at. The best tank from your Kara groups should take HK, then put the next two best on the warlock (until the enslaved demons can take over). We've always used a hunter and a boomkin on the shaman (its what works for us) so I don't know if you have that setup available.Posted 07-10-2008 at 03:16 PM by Smaken
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Before you even discuss bosses and strategies, a reality check is in order: can you get 25 people to show up at the summoning stone?
I don't mean to burst your bubble if you're getting jazzed up, I just remember in my previous guild we used to spend an hour and a half trying to fill the last 7 slots in our HKM wipe nights.Posted 07-10-2008 at 03:25 PM by Alent -
When you say "push" us to do 25 mans, that concerns me. One would hope you have enough support from the membership and desire for them to go therewithout needing to push. If you really have to push them, then it may not be a good idea.
What I have to assume is that you are not alone and you have other folks that want to go as well and try your hand at 25 man content. Gauge thier interest across the board. Caution, you may get people who say "yeah, sure" but not really mean it. Make sure they know what is involved, what is going to be required, etc before you can say for certain you have the numbers of enthusiastic members wanting to go.
I speak from the experience of my own mistakes here.Posted 07-10-2008 at 03:27 PM by Horacio - If your asking this question, chances are you are ready. As Smaken said, if you have a mage with 10k hp to tank Krosh head on in and give it a shot. High King is mostly about the pull. Once you have that nailed down he'll die shortly. As for Gruul, it's actually less about gear and more about staying alive. Read up on the boss strats, but don't always force yourself to follow them to the letter. They are what worked for some guilds, they won't necessarily work for yours. Also when we first started on Gruul the majority of our raid had never set foot in a raid instance other than Kara before, so the learning curve was pretty steep. What we found worked really well for us was to use one of the maps of Gruul's room with numbered locations on it. Each person got assigned a number so they knew where to run to/where to stand to avoid shatter damage.Posted 07-10-2008 at 03:28 PM by Danach
- As an additional note,
If you find that you have to pug a couple spots for Gruul's, decide before hand what your loot policy will be for the puggers and spell it out to them before you give them an invite.
Make sure they agree to it.
Make sure the rest of your guild agrees to it too.
I am speaking from the experience of someone else's mistakes here (not Horacio's).Posted 07-10-2008 at 03:33 PM by Smaken - Thanks for all the input. I actually have lead Gruul's previously on a different toon, different guild so I have the strats down fairly easily.. its just whether or not we are ready, gear wise. As to the pugging, we are actually close friends with a guild that is farther progressed so that shouldn't be a huge issue. They have pugged us into their raids previously (actually going to Mag's here in a few hours with them), and we've already worked out loot. As far as why I say "push"... well, I want to push for those who aren't geared to focus on getting it. Lately we've had problems with people playing alts or going off to do stuff with others, ending up in instances rarely happening for those who need it. So that's more of why I used the term.
Posted 07-10-2008 at 03:45 PM by kainelderan - ...and 2 hunters for the shammy(?) add that sheeps are also great, they take turns shooting it and being sheeped. Works great.
I would give Gruul a try, but set some sort of minimum gear level, and even pug spots rather than take people who just won't be of any use.
Something to watch out for: people who don't put in much time or effort whining at people who do to help them gear up faster. Some peoples lives just cannot accommodate raiding or they don't consider it as important as a casual team sport - maybe have a rank to distinguish raiders from non-raiders. Never hold raider-only meetings etc though, keep everyone included as much as possible, and make it clear that you welcome them anytime as a raider - if they can put the time and effort in. If you don't control this then you will lose your good raiders to frustration.
From trying to start things several times: if someone isn't geared by now (and has been at 70 for months) then they never really will be. If you get them some gear then they may be temporarily ok, but then you will need to get them more gear to keep up...and gems... and enchants... etc. It's like that cousin most people have who is always borrowing money and asking for rides everywhere and vanishing for random periods - your money and efforts are best spent elsewhere.Posted 07-10-2008 at 05:17 PM by Thist
