Thoughts and ideas on Protection Warriors
Posted 06-10-2009 at 07:48 AM by Durandro
I've been musing about the whole area for a while, and admittedly have mostly been complaining about how things are. So it's time to put out some of the ideas I've been coming up with, and my justifications behind them.
1/ Change Shield Slam.
I like Shield Slam, I really do. But it doesn't feel quite...right. I mean being smashed in the face with a shield is awesome, but wouldn't it knock over an opponant?
Hense my idea is to give it Revenge's stun proc. It's a relatively small change, but it's a (somewhat) more reliable stun mechanic for us to use in PvE and PvP which doesn't require a prerequisite proc to use.
I'd also like the stun animation to be a knockdown. Because it's an awesome image of being smashed to the ground.
2/ Change Revenge.
Again, I like Revenge. Not as much as beating someone to death with a plate of steel, but it's still awesome. But why does Improved Revenge cause stuns? Doesn't seem to fit in my head.
Instead, I'd like to see it give a 25/50% chance of causing a snare effect (like Hamstring) for a few seconds. This represents the Warrior dazing his opponant with his savage attack, and is trying to stay on its feet and steady itself.
3/ Get Rid of Shield Block
Meaning, of course, the one minute cooldown. I don't like it the way it is, I'd rather gain a constant % increase of block via talents and have something else to balance my gear around. Being able to hit the 'unhittable' (i.e. no non-blocked/dodged/parried hits) state like Paladins with some thought and good gear would be awesome. And it'll leave us with another GCD to work with.
If say our current 20% or so block was increased to 40%, we'd be mitigation or avoiding nearly every hit even without stacking SBR. Which makes sense, I think, since we are supposed to be 'Shield Tanks'.
4/ Change Block Mechanics
Nothing big. But remember how Armour Penetration was a joke before, but sundering was brutal against cloth and leather wearers?
Change blocking to reduce physical damage by a percentage, dependant on SBV. Having a Warrior (or Paladin) being able to block 40% of a hit would bring us more on par with Death Knights and Druids, but wouldn't make us untouchable against trash.
Heck, it would mean even a high tiered Warrior could still tank 5 man content.
5/ Change Heroic Strike
Few people like how it is now. It's a chore to keep pressing it every 1.6 seconds (or less). So how about changing it to an Execute style attack?
Say a minimum of 10 rage, and a maximum of 50. This allows you to cause a heavy hit every five or so seconds. And I'd probably add in a short cooldown as well in case of extreme rage intake, just to stop spamming.
Oh, and make it a GCD ability. Removes the whole 'fast weapons are better' concept, and makes all weapon speeds equal.
6/ Make Whirlwind usable in any stance
Yep. I'd love it if I could do a Whirlwind attack in Defensive Stance. Would really make me happy.
7/ Alter Rage Mechanics
Lower the amount of rage intake from damaging (giving and receiving). Add in a passive rage generation effect while in combat. Alter the 'Anger Management' talent to increase passive rage generation by 20%.
I have no idea on the maths on this, but I'd like it to give the same average amount of rage for all specs. I just want Protection Warriors to generate more rage while not being hammered upon, so they can offtank more effectively.
Also, it means Warriors can generate rage while not fighting (but still in combat). For example, if they get stunned or are having to do movement. In effect, it's almost like halfway between a Rogue's Energy and the current Rage mechanic.
8/ Get rid of the stance disadvantages
Basically, the -% damage from Prot, and the +% damage taken in Berzeker. With Battle Stance now having its own value (Armour Penetration) there's no reason for this anymore. It also means Stance Dancing can be used without fear, and you could even tank in Berzerker Stance in certain situations where you aren't in mortal danger. This can only be a good thing.
9/ Minor Shield Bash/Heroic Throw change
Cause it to remove a buff off the target if not used to interrupt, like how Shield Slam does now. Just a minor thing, but I thought of it at the last moment.
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That's all I can think of right now. But what does everyone else think?
1/ Change Shield Slam.
I like Shield Slam, I really do. But it doesn't feel quite...right. I mean being smashed in the face with a shield is awesome, but wouldn't it knock over an opponant?
Hense my idea is to give it Revenge's stun proc. It's a relatively small change, but it's a (somewhat) more reliable stun mechanic for us to use in PvE and PvP which doesn't require a prerequisite proc to use.
I'd also like the stun animation to be a knockdown. Because it's an awesome image of being smashed to the ground.
2/ Change Revenge.
Again, I like Revenge. Not as much as beating someone to death with a plate of steel, but it's still awesome. But why does Improved Revenge cause stuns? Doesn't seem to fit in my head.
Instead, I'd like to see it give a 25/50% chance of causing a snare effect (like Hamstring) for a few seconds. This represents the Warrior dazing his opponant with his savage attack, and is trying to stay on its feet and steady itself.
3/ Get Rid of Shield Block
Meaning, of course, the one minute cooldown. I don't like it the way it is, I'd rather gain a constant % increase of block via talents and have something else to balance my gear around. Being able to hit the 'unhittable' (i.e. no non-blocked/dodged/parried hits) state like Paladins with some thought and good gear would be awesome. And it'll leave us with another GCD to work with.
If say our current 20% or so block was increased to 40%, we'd be mitigation or avoiding nearly every hit even without stacking SBR. Which makes sense, I think, since we are supposed to be 'Shield Tanks'.
4/ Change Block Mechanics
Nothing big. But remember how Armour Penetration was a joke before, but sundering was brutal against cloth and leather wearers?
Change blocking to reduce physical damage by a percentage, dependant on SBV. Having a Warrior (or Paladin) being able to block 40% of a hit would bring us more on par with Death Knights and Druids, but wouldn't make us untouchable against trash.
Heck, it would mean even a high tiered Warrior could still tank 5 man content.
5/ Change Heroic Strike
Few people like how it is now. It's a chore to keep pressing it every 1.6 seconds (or less). So how about changing it to an Execute style attack?
Say a minimum of 10 rage, and a maximum of 50. This allows you to cause a heavy hit every five or so seconds. And I'd probably add in a short cooldown as well in case of extreme rage intake, just to stop spamming.
Oh, and make it a GCD ability. Removes the whole 'fast weapons are better' concept, and makes all weapon speeds equal.
6/ Make Whirlwind usable in any stance
Yep. I'd love it if I could do a Whirlwind attack in Defensive Stance. Would really make me happy.
7/ Alter Rage Mechanics
Lower the amount of rage intake from damaging (giving and receiving). Add in a passive rage generation effect while in combat. Alter the 'Anger Management' talent to increase passive rage generation by 20%.
I have no idea on the maths on this, but I'd like it to give the same average amount of rage for all specs. I just want Protection Warriors to generate more rage while not being hammered upon, so they can offtank more effectively.
Also, it means Warriors can generate rage while not fighting (but still in combat). For example, if they get stunned or are having to do movement. In effect, it's almost like halfway between a Rogue's Energy and the current Rage mechanic.
8/ Get rid of the stance disadvantages
Basically, the -% damage from Prot, and the +% damage taken in Berzeker. With Battle Stance now having its own value (Armour Penetration) there's no reason for this anymore. It also means Stance Dancing can be used without fear, and you could even tank in Berzerker Stance in certain situations where you aren't in mortal danger. This can only be a good thing.
9/ Minor Shield Bash/Heroic Throw change
Cause it to remove a buff off the target if not used to interrupt, like how Shield Slam does now. Just a minor thing, but I thought of it at the last moment.
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That's all I can think of right now. But what does everyone else think?
Total Comments 5
Comments
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1 - so you want a high threat, high damage move that also stuns/interrupts, and dispels a magic effect, and you want to keep it on a 6 second cooldown? Um, no. I agree with the theory here, but perhaps a daze effect is more what you're looking for, and would make more sense. It would also mean you wouldn't have to T-clap on single targets to snare them.
2 - I think Revenge (and Imp Revenge) is fine the way it is, and makes sense. If you dodge/block/parry an incoming attack, the attacker is temporarily off-balance, and an instant return strike would in fact have a chance to stun them. Think about the actual mechanics of such a fight.
3 - cooldowns, and subsequent cooldown management, exist to keep gameplay interactive. You *want* to go back to faceroll tanking?
4 - block mechanics are constantly being scrutinized, by both the player community and the developers. There is always talk of changing the way it works. It'll happen Soon(tm).
5 - I agree on HS needing some reworking, but it is not just a tanking attack. Why give it the same mechanics of execute, when execute already exists? I know, you can't use it in defensive stance. But you're in defensive stance, your goal is to be a protector. Leave the executing to the dps'ers. Shield Slam!
6 - Put on a bunch of heavy armor, a shield, and a sword. Spin around in a circle a few times. How exposed to incoming attacks were you while you did that? Right. Not a defensive attack.
7 - Agreed, having to OT as a Prot War is horrible, and makes staying up on threat very difficult. A solution to this that will make your MT angry is to sneak a Vigilence on them. Heh. Really, though, a more elegant solution would be to have a talent deep in the prot tree to reduce the cooldown on Bloodrage, and/or increase the duration/rage generated.
8 - Again, play the role you want to play. A protector should not be out there to do as much damage as possible. You already have Warbringer, to allow use of abilities normally available only in other stances. The goal was to remove stance dancing, not encourage it.
9 - You are not a mage, you should not be able to dispel from range. That would be one of those "overpowered" things, much like the suggested changes to #1. Merging shield bash and shield slam would only encourage facerolling. If you want to mash one or two buttons, play a dps class.
Posted 06-10-2009 at 12:26 PM by Bryenne
Updated 06-10-2009 at 12:45 PM by Bryenne - No, I want equality and viability. Increasing Warrior damage output is neccesary, as it altering some of their core mechanics.
And pardon me if I think that hitting someone in the face with a shield would do more to unbalance someone then jamming them with a sword. And obviously Shield Slam wouldn't remove buffs anymore, hense my comments with Shield Bash. It would require balancing, obviously.
And that's mostly in PvP context. Alot of the time you can't interupt casters because of lag, or they move out of melee range. Being able to shut down a Mage would help immensely, but the relatively long cooldowns would mean it would only be temporary.
And if you're going to get cheeky, then don't accuse me of 'wanting to mash one or two buttons'. My changes would mean there are MORE buttons to push.Posted 06-10-2009 at 01:59 PM by Durandro -
The game is broken, but not in the way you think it is.Posted 06-10-2009 at 02:57 PM by Alent - Shield Block isn't on the GCD so... it wouldn't have any impact on your GCDs. We all know the block system needs to change, it's just a question of when Blizzard will ever do it. 4.0 sounds about right, when they might also get around to changing Heroic Strike. Two issues, one expansion; and if they're really frisky they might touch on Rage mechanics!Quote:3/ Get Rid of Shield Block
/snip... And it'll leave us with another GCD to work with.
The stance penalties simply make sense. You do less damage in Defensive stance because you're focus is more on mitigating damage than dealing it. In Berserker stance you're more reckless so taking more damage is only logical. Not to mention with how the game mechanics are right now a Prot warrior in tank gear will NEVER be able to hold aggro unless they are in Defensive stance.
Yes, it would make more sense for Shield Slam to stun the mobs. Every mob in the game that uses Shield Slam does stun you after all! Personally, I prefer how Revenge, Shield Bash and Shield Slam are implemented now.
Always fun to listen to ideas others come up with to change the class around and improve it. Can create some pretty wild images.Posted 06-11-2009 at 01:47 AM by tuffmuffin - My thoughts? I like you durandro, but I tried getting myself involved with the idea of change from a community movement perspective and realized how disenfranchised things were (yeah I had to look up that word.)
I'm trying to react positively to your ideas of change, but honestly, I'm just kinda tired and trying to get used to 'just dealing with warriors as they are.'
/shrug.Posted 06-11-2009 at 10:48 AM by Conreeaght
