To throw in the towel or not...
So here is the drama that started last night with one of the guild leaders...
Yesterday I asked one of the guild officers that was online if I could leave an hour early because I needed to get some arena games in on my warrior and he seemingly didn't have a problem with it. When the GM logged on, he knew about my request but then here came the second in command, so to speak, at raid time bitching up a storm stating that I needed to be more responsible and get my arena games done on weekdays/non-raid times. Well, I snapped back and told him that my time was limited this past week because I spent time with my daughter, ran around doing errands, and so forth and that my arena partner wasn't online at times when I was or he was busy. He then stated that I needed to make time and I told him that I was not going to demand my partner to work around my schedule. It wouldn't have been right. I then told him that I spend 25-30 hours each and every week main tanking even when there are times I really don't want to and need a break, but I still do it because I have a responsibility to the guild. He wanted to state that the last time I left early for arenas, a ton of people bitched at him and this was back when we were learning Kael'thas....over two months ago. So, let's say it is exactly two months ago. That's over 200 hours that I have put towards guild raiding and progression and when I ask for one small hour...I'm in the wrong. I'm the one who has suck it up and deal with it yet others are able to be replaced or take the night off. Granted, other classes are more versatile than the main tank job. So, now we're talking about the lack of being fair.
I already stay up later than we agreed up when they offered me the main tank spot and I had one stipulation...I cannot raid past 11PM because of work the next day. Now, it is expected of me to stay up until the end of raid time so that I can help the guild out and now because of this, I'm sacrificing sleep for them just so that they're happy. I've bent over backwards too many times for this guild to keep things going and I'm getting sick of it. The players are a great bunch of people to raid with but the system the leaders run is not fair. Since the guild leader that wanted to stir up the pot about this, I dealt with it and didn't go to bed until almost 2AM in the morning. So, I've had maybe 4 hours of sleep last night and I'm trying not to let that get the best of me today.
So, we raided of course and all we did last night was trash. We didn't have the healers to try Kalecgos which amazes me why I couldn't leave early. We had the tanks for the trash so what's the problem? If the guild cannot bend over backwards for me once in a blue moon, why should I do it for them each and every time we raid? I transferred to Blood Furnace to PvP/Arena and get away from raiding. I was asked to help them out by one of my best real life friends so I did. I went against my original plan to help them learn the bosses and run the raids and what do I get? No respect from the leaders. I know that I have respect from many guild members because a lot of them know what I go through and one of them stated that he felt that the guild would nearly stop progression if I was to leave.
I was talking to Darlene about this and she stated that if I am not happy, then I should do what I need to do and take a week off from raiding and to not waste my time on things that I do not feel like doing to make others happy while I am not. I take her opinion very serious and this has been in the back of my mind for some time now to throw in the towel and leave the raiding scene. I expressed to her that I'll probably continue raiding for another month so the other warrior tank can gear up some more and take the reigns so that I'm not leaving them in such a bad spot.
/endrant
Is it lunch time already? >.<
Yesterday I asked one of the guild officers that was online if I could leave an hour early because I needed to get some arena games in on my warrior and he seemingly didn't have a problem with it. When the GM logged on, he knew about my request but then here came the second in command, so to speak, at raid time bitching up a storm stating that I needed to be more responsible and get my arena games done on weekdays/non-raid times. Well, I snapped back and told him that my time was limited this past week because I spent time with my daughter, ran around doing errands, and so forth and that my arena partner wasn't online at times when I was or he was busy. He then stated that I needed to make time and I told him that I was not going to demand my partner to work around my schedule. It wouldn't have been right. I then told him that I spend 25-30 hours each and every week main tanking even when there are times I really don't want to and need a break, but I still do it because I have a responsibility to the guild. He wanted to state that the last time I left early for arenas, a ton of people bitched at him and this was back when we were learning Kael'thas....over two months ago. So, let's say it is exactly two months ago. That's over 200 hours that I have put towards guild raiding and progression and when I ask for one small hour...I'm in the wrong. I'm the one who has suck it up and deal with it yet others are able to be replaced or take the night off. Granted, other classes are more versatile than the main tank job. So, now we're talking about the lack of being fair.
I already stay up later than we agreed up when they offered me the main tank spot and I had one stipulation...I cannot raid past 11PM because of work the next day. Now, it is expected of me to stay up until the end of raid time so that I can help the guild out and now because of this, I'm sacrificing sleep for them just so that they're happy. I've bent over backwards too many times for this guild to keep things going and I'm getting sick of it. The players are a great bunch of people to raid with but the system the leaders run is not fair. Since the guild leader that wanted to stir up the pot about this, I dealt with it and didn't go to bed until almost 2AM in the morning. So, I've had maybe 4 hours of sleep last night and I'm trying not to let that get the best of me today.
So, we raided of course and all we did last night was trash. We didn't have the healers to try Kalecgos which amazes me why I couldn't leave early. We had the tanks for the trash so what's the problem? If the guild cannot bend over backwards for me once in a blue moon, why should I do it for them each and every time we raid? I transferred to Blood Furnace to PvP/Arena and get away from raiding. I was asked to help them out by one of my best real life friends so I did. I went against my original plan to help them learn the bosses and run the raids and what do I get? No respect from the leaders. I know that I have respect from many guild members because a lot of them know what I go through and one of them stated that he felt that the guild would nearly stop progression if I was to leave.
I was talking to Darlene about this and she stated that if I am not happy, then I should do what I need to do and take a week off from raiding and to not waste my time on things that I do not feel like doing to make others happy while I am not. I take her opinion very serious and this has been in the back of my mind for some time now to throw in the towel and leave the raiding scene. I expressed to her that I'll probably continue raiding for another month so the other warrior tank can gear up some more and take the reigns so that I'm not leaving them in such a bad spot.
/endrant
Is it lunch time already? >.<
Total Comments 12
Comments
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You have to come first.
This isn't to say that it should always be about you, but I think its well past time that you revisit with them the parameters of you joining. Ultimately, if they don't like it then keep in mind there are many other guilds to go to, many other people to meet and real life friends don't care what tag you have. Even true in-game friends do not define you by your tag, they'll understand.
You wanted to PvP, it's time you did it.Posted 07-15-2008 at 09:51 AM by veneretio 
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Well, you have a number of reasons that suggest the guild is not where you should be in any case. I can speak anecdotally to two specific points, though:
Arena: Depends. For us, anyone on the waitlist who wants to go pvp is welcome to it, with the expectation that if called up they drop pvp and raid. People can ask to be waitlisted for the night if possible, and we'll try to do it if we can (and they can go do whatever subject to being called to raid). That said, being the MT means you have a lot less leeway than other players in the guild.
One thing is pretty firm, though. We're a raiding guild first and foremost and tell applicants that clearly when they first approach us. Anyone guild who had the stones to ask if they could leave a raid in progress for arena games would probably quickly find themselves with a lot of time for arena games.
In your case, what you really want to do is pvp. That goes back to why are you even in that guild, when its purpose and yours are completely counter?
Losing sleep: No game is worth that, period. If they can't deal with that, it's the wrong place for you. I went through a schedule change and I now log at 11PM on raid nights as well. There was grumbling, and then adaptation. (If it's a real progression night I'll stay for an extra half hour or so, but never past midnight). I'd say their expectation that you will sacrifice your time and sleep is an absolute deal-breaker regardless of any other considerations.Posted 07-15-2008 at 09:56 AM by Satrina - /gnomehug. I think you're wearing too many hats and drowning in them - RL, work, MT, arena etc etc. I'd suggest finding someway, any way - by any means, that you can to give yourself some space, sit back and re-assess what you can do and want to do in WoW.
/biggnomehugPosted 07-15-2008 at 10:02 AM by Shortypop - You want to pvp, go pvp. If you were offered the MT position in a raiding guild and took it when all you wanted was to pvp, then there are conflicting interests within that need to reconcile.
Not that it is bad, just know what you want and dont give in to flippances and peers.Posted 07-15-2008 at 10:16 AM by Gehn - I was offered the MT position because they were having some problems and I've already cleared the content numerous times and was able to bring insight to the table. Due to them actually progressing, I stayed up a little bit later than I wanted to help them out, just like Satrina stated. It's now gotten out of control when trying to get back to leaving around 11PM for sleep.
Like I mentioned, I'll give it another month but I'll also talk to them and let them know how I feel and if they aren't willing to work with me on this, then I'll do what I need to do.Posted 07-15-2008 at 10:54 AM by Cynocide - Is this one of those moments where we need to remember that this is a game? Something to be done for enjoyment? Sometimes I am thankful I never made it into a end game progression guild, seems like it becomes a 2nd job instead of something to enjoy. Also seems to be why a lot of tanks get burnt out and quit....dps can be replaced, good tanks feel like the raid will die if they cannot make it or leave early. Personally I will not take crap from someone over a video game. Do your best, be honest to yourself, but the day someone tries to attack you over your choices or requests, let them go die in a fire, that ain't waht my 15 bucks are for.
Posted 07-15-2008 at 11:15 AM by Tatt - you seem to be making the classic mistake of hanging on. If you don't like to raid, then don't. Give the guild a heads up and let them start phasing in a new main tank.
In actuality you probably like to raid but not as much as the raid requires, but remember the position of MT is a full time raiding spot, first guy there there, last guy to leave every scheduled raid. Most main tanks will pull close to 100% raid attendance for months and really if the MT leaves the raid so he can get some arena done, it leaves everyone feeling a bit queezy (no matter how valid the reason may be).
Don't throw in the towel but let them know to find someone else they can count on and you play a bit of a OT/backup role.Posted 07-16-2008 at 08:53 AM by bludwork - I've been with this guild since March and have main tanked since day 1. I literally have a 100% raid attendance. I've not missed a single raid at all. Also, it isn't raiding that I hate, but how much time I am putting forth now when other things arise and the lack of understanding. If others needed to something, they're just replaced for that night. As I mentioned, that's easier to do than replacing the main tank. What I don't like is that raid requirements changed really without me agreeing to it but I did what I had to do to help this guild progressed. Now that this all came up, I'm suppose to just bow down to the guild leaders and do what they say, when they say it. I'm not doing that. I will not get on my knees just to make them happy.
One of the guild leaders use to be the main tank. I'm staying in for a month and hoping gear will drop for him so he can effectively and effeciently take over when I leave.Posted 07-16-2008 at 11:25 AM by Cynocide - You *are* bowing down to the guild leaders right now. They've learned they can push you around (nights off? 11pm stop?) and sound like they will continue to do so until you make it stop. Just because it's online doesn't mean it can't be a dysfunctional relationship :-)
I agree with other commenters who say to either leave or train up a new MT.
But in any case, if you have family limits or promises, put them first. And don't be afraid to "/ra As I mentioned to Bob yesterday, I'm out at 11pm for work tomorrow, so we've got one more go left." Honestly, them hearing that directly from you is far different from the raid leader getting 24 tells. It also seriously encourages people to show up on time, if they aren't already.Posted 07-17-2008 at 05:25 AM by larsberg - As, GM, MT and raid leader of a casual progression guild, I routinely have to remind myself and my guildies that real life comes first, second, third, fourth . . .WoW comes in around 209th. I would think in a more dedicated raiding guild it will probably crack the top 100.
As MT, the guild drops all these expectations upon you. Nevertheless, remember that while you can procede without any number of them, they can rarely procede without you. YOU have way more authority than the others. Announce the situation at the beginning of the raid, apologize for the inconvienence and remind everybody of your dedication to both the guild, progress, and your arena partner. Also remind them that while you are willing to help and enjoy playing with them, if they need to find a new MT, you have no problem with that. Then you can wait for the silence. Generally, there are not a lot of MTs unattached to guids that are at or above the progession level of T6 guilds.
When the game becomes work, you need to take some vacation time.Posted 07-17-2008 at 05:55 PM by Bhorg - I appreciate the feedback from everyone both on this blog and in that shoutbox. Some of you will have noticed that I've posted a thread regarding myself transferring servers. I've talked to the guild leaders concerning this issue and they're not planning to budge so, I'm gone after a month of helping them gear the other tank.
Posted 07-19-2008 at 04:55 PM by Cynocide -
When in a raiding guild you don't take brakes for arena's. That's how I see it. There's 24 other people at that time that can't do what they love to do and which was agreed with them by the guild: raid within the raiding schedule.
Overtime however should only rarely happen. People sign up for a guild with certain expectations, one of them is schedule. Only rarely this should broken.
At some point we had a MT who always showed up late but did continue 2-3 sometimes 4 hours after raidtime. At the start it's ok but when you progress, you see the people who can't really make it drop off.Posted 07-20-2008 at 08:57 AM by orcstar 
