Dear DPS:
Posted 07-04-2009 at 10:40 AM by Azadar
This is a public service announcement brought to you by Azadar, and the letter QQ. Appropriate subtitles include, but are not limited to: "Why You Got Flattened", "Sorry, But I'm Not Sorry", "Why The DPS Meter Sucks" and "Why So Twitchy, Buddy?".
Having been a tank (former healer) for a whopping seven months or so now, I feel it's time to issue a P.S.A. to dps about your tanks. I hope I speak for the tanking commuinity as a whole when I say: STOP NUKING BEFORE I HAVE AGGRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It takes me between 3-6 seconds to ensure I have proper aggro. If you start throwing out insane crits after all I have done is taunt and start a pull, you're going to get smooshed! And I'm not going to cry about it. In fact, I'm going to watch, laugh, then Deathgrip the mob back onto me. I may even decide to tank him on top of your corpse just for laughs.
We all know that waiting 6 seconds decreases the DPS you do, but how much does your precious DPS go down when you're laying prostrate cursing your tank for the minute and a half it takes to kill the latest trash pack and rez you? Do the math. I'm tired of telling you not to go crazy AS I'm pulling. I've warned you, told you, said it ALL IN CAPS, mentioned it in vent... If you are still too brain-dead to understand, you deserve to take the 20k crit from a boss I haven't established aggro on yet. The rest of us will mop up the boss and you can tell me L2P all you want... Doesn't bother me. I know I'm a good tank, my healer knows I'm a good tank (or he wouldn't be healing me) and the two DPS that have a brain cell know I'm a good tank.
PLEASE: THINK before you nuke.
(On the subject of healers: as long as I am standing, you can do no wrong. I'll use every taunt I have to keep you alive. You can do no harm in my eyes.)
Thank you, and happy tanking.
~Az
Having been a tank (former healer) for a whopping seven months or so now, I feel it's time to issue a P.S.A. to dps about your tanks. I hope I speak for the tanking commuinity as a whole when I say: STOP NUKING BEFORE I HAVE AGGRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It takes me between 3-6 seconds to ensure I have proper aggro. If you start throwing out insane crits after all I have done is taunt and start a pull, you're going to get smooshed! And I'm not going to cry about it. In fact, I'm going to watch, laugh, then Deathgrip the mob back onto me. I may even decide to tank him on top of your corpse just for laughs.
We all know that waiting 6 seconds decreases the DPS you do, but how much does your precious DPS go down when you're laying prostrate cursing your tank for the minute and a half it takes to kill the latest trash pack and rez you? Do the math. I'm tired of telling you not to go crazy AS I'm pulling. I've warned you, told you, said it ALL IN CAPS, mentioned it in vent... If you are still too brain-dead to understand, you deserve to take the 20k crit from a boss I haven't established aggro on yet. The rest of us will mop up the boss and you can tell me L2P all you want... Doesn't bother me. I know I'm a good tank, my healer knows I'm a good tank (or he wouldn't be healing me) and the two DPS that have a brain cell know I'm a good tank.
PLEASE: THINK before you nuke.
(On the subject of healers: as long as I am standing, you can do no wrong. I'll use every taunt I have to keep you alive. You can do no harm in my eyes.)
Thank you, and happy tanking.
~Az
Total Comments 16
Comments
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lol while I agree... sometimes just sometimes its the tanks fault.Posted 07-04-2009 at 10:46 AM by hbombs 
- 1) Get a Misdirect
2) charge & shield slam if you are a warrior
3) profit
I think deathknights are the only class that really struggles with initial aggro and everyone other than pallies on trash packs.Posted 07-04-2009 at 11:02 AM by loquatious - Sorry Loq, but when the DPS opens up with aoes and assuming the tank is going to pick it up... there is no sympathy. I think enough folks have faced the 'wait for sunders' raid tactic to make it implicit to every pool, yet someone has to eek out that extra couple of seconds to pad the dps meter.
What I like is when they die early and my tank DPS is adequate to surpass them on that pull/attempt. Drives the "Zero Dps while dead" logic home.Posted 07-04-2009 at 11:12 AM by Esch - On a one mob pull, it doesn't matter when you start DPSing, as long as the mob still runs to me (assuming I'm not charging in).
On AOE pulls, it's basically GG anyways. I have no way to keep up with a well geared Mage's Blizzard.Posted 07-04-2009 at 11:42 AM by Ferag - Healers can do no wrong when the tank is alive...unless they put themselves into silly situatons they could avoid. Like standing in void zones.
So a side note to all healers - your health bar matters as well. And you can't heal the tank if you're crumpled on the floor in multiple pieces. Don't be afraid to stop healing the tank for a second or two to throw a heal on yourself (that is, assuming the tank can survive that long, and let's hope so in a 5 man!) - we need you alive after all!Posted 07-04-2009 at 07:07 PM by Durandro 
- Yea on groups we all yell at the mages on the way to hodir, Wait for every worm to spawn, HEY GODDAMMIT WAIT!!!
But if they do get eaten by a worm then they probably wont say "wish we had a pally" out loud but I know they are thinking it.Posted 07-04-2009 at 07:41 PM by loquatious - It is frustrating tanking groups as a warrior, particularly if you have mages that like to AoE or hunters that like to give both barrels to random mobb that's last on the target list off the hop. Mostly because losing one mobb is a domino effect - you force the warrior to make a decision:
1) Switch attention to the loose mobile (thus not threatting and possibly losing the others).
2) Maintain what he can and hope that threat halts on the the escapee and that reduction will be used to return. (or they're smart enough to return it themselves)
To step beyond the moot arguement of tank vs dps, it helps if both sides see beyond the meaningless prattle and try to work together. Granted, the tank should be light-years ahead on threat. However, the difference between a boss kill and a boss wipe are dps that are intelligent enough to know when topping the meters isn't worth tanking the boss for 0.2 seconds before you're given an express ride to the great beyond (along with going down the list usually taking out melee while the tank is huffin' and puffin' falling behind).
Just my random thoughts.Posted 07-04-2009 at 08:23 PM by Conreeaght
Updated 07-05-2009 at 06:45 AM by Conreeaght - A good warrior tank spoils dps. When you have tank charging in with his shockwave, most dps can open up with the big ones as soon as they get within range. With a dk it's so much harder. I tank as frost and i never feel safe until i've let off a HB which can be a good few seconds into the fight.
Posted 07-05-2009 at 01:01 AM by Fledern - A good tank spoils DPS, its not just warriors.
Posted 07-05-2009 at 03:22 AM by ovine - I have been playing hunter and warrior for 3 years now, so I m familiar with both sides of the coin. It seems that when WoTLK came on live servers, tanks where defined as mystic entities with 2 pairs of hands and MobMagnets on their foreheads. This change of gameplay which brought up constant AoE tanking and DPSing from 5man instances to end game raids is something that I fail to understand.
So what we have now is tanks running around and trying to keep everything on them while building walls of aggro on multiple targets - on the other side we have reckless DPSers who use their I-kill-you abilities to top the meters. 99% of them refuse to comprehend the complexity of tanking and the human need of some SECONDS in order to build the initial threat - no sir, all hell breaks loose!
Things get worse on early heroic groups, where there is no respect for the tank, his gear and his maybe unfolded skills. Everyone wants their fast run , storming through the packs with fingers stack on the AoE button (CC? wait, whats that again?), commenting on how "boring" the trash are, when at the same time, miles away, someone is crumbling his fingers in order to perform. Personally, I tend to save the overaggro-er the first time. Second time, I warn him about the disadvantages of tanking, the maliciousness of elite mobs, and the side effects of that AGGRO warning on his screen. Third time? Let the mob have its fun, and intervene the healer. Top-of-corpse tanking is a nice method too.
As Conreeaght said, its all about collaboration. Help your tank. He'll protect you in turn. And yes, a good tank spoils DPS. There is no need for anxiety and nerve breaking though. Chill.Posted 07-05-2009 at 03:41 AM by ZakkSDMF - Like Zakk, I have been playing a Tankadin, and my main (another hunter) for close to a year now. I hate to admit it but i was one of the nuke and die DPS, until i tanked Deadmines on my paladin at lvl 18. When i saw just how hard, and FUN!, tanking is and can be, I always us MD or give the tank a few seconds before jumping in. I normally will use this time to tack on my CD buffs (Rapid Fire, Call of the Wild, Kill Command) and about the time i have them down the tank has a good hold on the boss (at least i hope he does!
As stated, a good Tank spoils the DPSers rotten, and i agree that as long as i am alive and tanking, hlrs can do NOTHING wrong. I will do EVERYTHING in my power to protect my hlr! now a dpser that doesnt listen? i like the idea of corpse tanking!
And just a clue for those DPSers like i was, it is WAY easier to back off on ur dps then it is for the tank to tramp up his aggro generation, just chill out and remember, the longer you live, the more dps you can get, SO PLS DONT TRY TO PULL OF ME!Posted 07-05-2009 at 04:22 AM by bldavis - I'm not defending reckless DPSers in any manner, but all Taunt type abilities are 30yrds now, and just about every boss I've come across can be Taunted, unlike the old days when everything was immune.
Even playing tank for nearly 4yrs (if that's what you could call me @ L60 running Strat and Scholo to no end, with a sprinkling of ZG and only Luci down in MC) my L70 Hunter went over the threshold at Prince in Kara and got our tank Enfeebled. I guess it was just a one-time brain fart, but I admit I have to be more lenient on the DPSers when I'm tanking because of it.Posted 07-05-2009 at 09:34 AM by AoDraka - Had a classic nub Dps'r in a PuG last night. DK DPS laying down his AOE abilities on the trash pack as I charged in. He died pretty quick and spammed "Noob Tank, Noob Healer" in the group .. /sigh.
The one I want to highlight though is the healer who puts a HoT on you just as you charge in. All this does is pull the non charge dmobs towards you and makes the TC miss making initial threat gains and mob control tricky. I usually ask for healer to wait for TC and for DPS to wait for Shockwave to crash before piling in. As long as they hit the marked mob first with single target DPS then we are all fine. My guild group can do all heroics without downtime and without talking to each other. With mb's between each pull and lots of discussion of tactics the PuG failed to complete HoS heroic last night before i gave up. Ill save my repair bills for raids thanks.Posted 07-06-2009 at 03:50 AM by Daggus - One of my favorite lines from a DPS that pulls aggro before I've built good threat:
"It's not my fault, I got a crit!"
I only have 40% crit, what were the odds it would happen on my first shot?Posted 07-06-2009 at 09:39 AM by Mammoth - While in general I agree, I'd much prefer the DPS who tops the meter and occasionally over-aggroes than the one who does mediocre damage.
Assuming the the twitchy DPSer is experienced and not just overgeared, they should be able to drop aggro or kill off the mob and survive most of the time in heroics. Even with raid trash, good DPSers use their escape mechanisms.
The only situation where a DPSer really pisses me off is when they target the wrong mob consistently through a heroic run. It's usually plate DPS or rogues who do this, and it's hard to notice if we also have a good healer, except that it takes the healer's mana and attention away.Posted 07-06-2009 at 12:42 PM by Machus - I dps heroics as a feral druid. Once the tank pulls, ill toss out a rake on w/e target he pulled (assuming he used something other than a taunt, like FFF, shattering throw, or avengers shield) Once my energy is about to hit 100, ill use savage roar on that one combo point, and after that, its all cat swipe. Omen will make my screen blink red after 2-3 swipes, but for some reason that makes me spam swipe faster =(.
Posted 07-08-2009 at 06:58 AM by Insom
