Flamebait: Why Wow doesn't have tanks or healers.
Posted 08-17-2008 at 11:16 AM by Alent
I would like to apologize/warn you in advance: This blog is inflammatory and will probably offend somebody. If you are easily offended, feel entitled to tank, hate that (insert class here) is getting buffed, you may wish to not read this blog.
Question: Why is there a shortage of tanks in wow?
Answer: There are no tank classes.
All the tanks are built to do damage while wearing gear that will get them killed if they taunt, or built to heal while wearing gear that will kill them if they taunt.
Everyone is worried about making sure these classes have their hybrid roles and is punishing them for having their hybrid roles.
Warrior is being punished for arms PVP and fury DPS.
Paladin is being punished for having heals.
Druid is being punished for cat form and heals.
We haven't been able to see deathknight yet but preliminary information makes it looks like they're being punished for being the anti-everybody in PVP. DK + Warrior will be the new imba 2's team.
In short: The current tank issues we are facing is simply because Blizzard has shackled all of us with hybrid roles or PVP roles. People roll warriors to PVP. Not tank. PVP. People roll druids to noob it up in arenas, running around with merc gear bouncing around while throwing lifeblooms like they were going out of style.
People call warrior a pure class, it's not. No more than Druid or Paladin is a pure class. I've seen pure tank classes, they build threat on mobs just for taking damage. When they die and are battle rezzed, they can go from dead last on the threat table to first place in a matter of 10 seconds flat. They have panic buttons that are MEANINGFUL. They can't solo, they can't do "dailies", they can't grind. They need a pocket healer to go to the bathroom without dying.
(Yes, Prot warrior soloing is miserable - I'm not saying it isn't- But it's not the suicide pact it is in other mmos.)
To fix this problem will require a paradigm shift on blizzard's part: hybrids, warriors included, will have to be designed with each role as a standalone role, not "counterbalanced" by anything- completely ignoring all other aspects. Cat form must be forgotten when balancing bear druids. Prot warrior tanking must be forgotten when working on prot DPS. Healing must be forgotten when working on prot paladins.
Now for the counterpoint.
Question: Why is there a shortage of healers in wow?
Answer: There are no healing classes.
Every healing class in wow can be respec'd to a DPS class. People roll priests to shadow pewpew. People roll druids to run around as an antler-owl blowing the hell out of stuff. People roll Paladins to Ret DPS. (zomg I cannot tell you how many stupid ret pallies there are on my server) People roll shammies to own it up in AV with stormstrike crits.
For every class that can heal, there is SOMETHING more exciting to distract them from healing. Worse, no healing class in wow except priests have a complete healing arsenal, encouraging burn out because you're trying to make a square peg fit a round hole.
The most cruel thing wow ever did was create instances with aoe damage and no aoe healing. Almost equally cruel was giving b.rez to one healer instead of all healers. In extremely poor tact was failing to add enough heals and small cooldowns on heals that there is no actual healing ROTATION. This has created healers who have no idea they can do things other than spam flash heal!
Flash heal should have a 6 second CD. So should greater heal. There should be enough small CDs and unique healing spells that the game ENCOURAGES a healing rotation the same way it encourages a tanking rotation! This is the way pure healing classes work!
when I played a healer in another mmo, every heal I had was on a cooldown of varying length and I basically kept all of them, on cooldown, all the time. My rotation went something like (names translated to wow) Thunderclap -> Group-PW:S -> PW:S -> Demo shout -> Stam debuff -> PW:S -> Greater heal -> Group PW:S -> Lesser heal -> Greater heal -> PW:S -> Prayer of Healing -> Lesser heal -> group PW:S -> refresh demo shout -> Greater heal -> Refresh Stam debuff -> refresh thunderclap -> repeat
Notice something STRANGE there? Yes, debuffs that are currently the purvue of warrior were solidly in the hands of the healers. the healers helped control the damage intake of the take not just with heals - they actively debuffed to mitigate damage at both ends while the tanks dealt solely in threat.
What were my panic buttons at my healer's disposal? instant cast PW:S, instant cast group PW:S, a 2 min CD Battle rez, a 6 target aoe battle rez, and an instant cast PW:S that was 2x normal strength but for poison and disease damage only.
These are real healing tools. Two full hotbars of options for healing, all part of my standard rotation or panic moves on standby.
I look at my druid and I see "lifebloom, rejuvenation, regrowth and healing touch" My sole panic buttons are Swiftmend and Battlerez. I don't even have a regular rez. that's not a healer. That's a joke. Where the fuck are my abilities?!
I look at my paladin and see "flash of light" and "Holy Light". That's not even a joke, those are token heals just so blizzard can say "oh, but you have heals".
I laugh my ass off inside every time someone says paladins shouldn't tank because they can heal. I call them ghettodins for a reason, they're healers by a technicality! They don't have proper tools, they're a one button class that you can set up a G15 keyboard to play for you! I don't trust paladin healers when tanking- they AREN'T to be trusted. They don't have the tools to be healing, what the hell are they doing there healing!?
Wow doesn't have Tanks. Wow doesn't have Healers. We have hybrids that are barely getting by.
Blizzard, please fix this.
Question: Why is there a shortage of tanks in wow?
Answer: There are no tank classes.
All the tanks are built to do damage while wearing gear that will get them killed if they taunt, or built to heal while wearing gear that will kill them if they taunt.
Everyone is worried about making sure these classes have their hybrid roles and is punishing them for having their hybrid roles.
Warrior is being punished for arms PVP and fury DPS.
Paladin is being punished for having heals.
Druid is being punished for cat form and heals.
We haven't been able to see deathknight yet but preliminary information makes it looks like they're being punished for being the anti-everybody in PVP. DK + Warrior will be the new imba 2's team.
In short: The current tank issues we are facing is simply because Blizzard has shackled all of us with hybrid roles or PVP roles. People roll warriors to PVP. Not tank. PVP. People roll druids to noob it up in arenas, running around with merc gear bouncing around while throwing lifeblooms like they were going out of style.
People call warrior a pure class, it's not. No more than Druid or Paladin is a pure class. I've seen pure tank classes, they build threat on mobs just for taking damage. When they die and are battle rezzed, they can go from dead last on the threat table to first place in a matter of 10 seconds flat. They have panic buttons that are MEANINGFUL. They can't solo, they can't do "dailies", they can't grind. They need a pocket healer to go to the bathroom without dying.
(Yes, Prot warrior soloing is miserable - I'm not saying it isn't- But it's not the suicide pact it is in other mmos.)
To fix this problem will require a paradigm shift on blizzard's part: hybrids, warriors included, will have to be designed with each role as a standalone role, not "counterbalanced" by anything- completely ignoring all other aspects. Cat form must be forgotten when balancing bear druids. Prot warrior tanking must be forgotten when working on prot DPS. Healing must be forgotten when working on prot paladins.
Now for the counterpoint.
Question: Why is there a shortage of healers in wow?
Answer: There are no healing classes.
Every healing class in wow can be respec'd to a DPS class. People roll priests to shadow pewpew. People roll druids to run around as an antler-owl blowing the hell out of stuff. People roll Paladins to Ret DPS. (zomg I cannot tell you how many stupid ret pallies there are on my server) People roll shammies to own it up in AV with stormstrike crits.
For every class that can heal, there is SOMETHING more exciting to distract them from healing. Worse, no healing class in wow except priests have a complete healing arsenal, encouraging burn out because you're trying to make a square peg fit a round hole.
The most cruel thing wow ever did was create instances with aoe damage and no aoe healing. Almost equally cruel was giving b.rez to one healer instead of all healers. In extremely poor tact was failing to add enough heals and small cooldowns on heals that there is no actual healing ROTATION. This has created healers who have no idea they can do things other than spam flash heal!
Flash heal should have a 6 second CD. So should greater heal. There should be enough small CDs and unique healing spells that the game ENCOURAGES a healing rotation the same way it encourages a tanking rotation! This is the way pure healing classes work!
when I played a healer in another mmo, every heal I had was on a cooldown of varying length and I basically kept all of them, on cooldown, all the time. My rotation went something like (names translated to wow) Thunderclap -> Group-PW:S -> PW:S -> Demo shout -> Stam debuff -> PW:S -> Greater heal -> Group PW:S -> Lesser heal -> Greater heal -> PW:S -> Prayer of Healing -> Lesser heal -> group PW:S -> refresh demo shout -> Greater heal -> Refresh Stam debuff -> refresh thunderclap -> repeat
Notice something STRANGE there? Yes, debuffs that are currently the purvue of warrior were solidly in the hands of the healers. the healers helped control the damage intake of the take not just with heals - they actively debuffed to mitigate damage at both ends while the tanks dealt solely in threat.
What were my panic buttons at my healer's disposal? instant cast PW:S, instant cast group PW:S, a 2 min CD Battle rez, a 6 target aoe battle rez, and an instant cast PW:S that was 2x normal strength but for poison and disease damage only.
These are real healing tools. Two full hotbars of options for healing, all part of my standard rotation or panic moves on standby.
I look at my druid and I see "lifebloom, rejuvenation, regrowth and healing touch" My sole panic buttons are Swiftmend and Battlerez. I don't even have a regular rez. that's not a healer. That's a joke. Where the fuck are my abilities?!
I look at my paladin and see "flash of light" and "Holy Light". That's not even a joke, those are token heals just so blizzard can say "oh, but you have heals".
I laugh my ass off inside every time someone says paladins shouldn't tank because they can heal. I call them ghettodins for a reason, they're healers by a technicality! They don't have proper tools, they're a one button class that you can set up a G15 keyboard to play for you! I don't trust paladin healers when tanking- they AREN'T to be trusted. They don't have the tools to be healing, what the hell are they doing there healing!?
Wow doesn't have Tanks. Wow doesn't have Healers. We have hybrids that are barely getting by.
Blizzard, please fix this.
Total Comments 16
Comments
 | Interesting point... Something Blizz may want to look into |
Posted 08-17-2008 at 11:30 AM by TheMainFrame  |
| |  I am offended, of course I am entitled to tank. Joking aside, I think you do have some good points. While leveling my shaman, time spent looking for group was: Priest: Shadow Priest: Shadow Paladin: Ret Warrior: Dps No tanks and no healers. At 70 we then have either them continuing with a leveling spec or people at 70 trying to learn all over again how to play with a new spec. |
| Posted 08-17-2008 at 11:48 AM by Smaken |
| |  I could not disagree more with you about healers.  |
| Posted 08-17-2008 at 12:00 PM by Norrath |
| | The irony is that your point about there being no tank classes is that with WotLK, if Blizzard does what they are intending to do, all the plate classes+druids will be able to tank in pretty much every spec. But, none of those classes will be pure tank classes, and actually, even farther from it. |
| Posted 08-17-2008 at 01:15 PM by Rampart |
| |  the problem is the same as always - people play DPS specs because they don't want to tank/heal. Irony... compounded. |
Posted 08-17-2008 at 01:21 PM by Alent  |
| | Interesting but simply wrong. The issue is framed by two simple facts. First there is the fact of spec availability. There are dozens of dps specs, there are not dozes of tanking and healing specs. So even if there were the same number of people in every class and spec, there would be a "shortage" of tanks and dps relative to the number of other classes. Second, healing and tanking take a particular mind set. Not everyone wants to stand back and heal, or stand up and get beat on. The classes have design issues. But they don't play into the lack of players who don't like tanking and healing. |
| Posted 08-17-2008 at 08:50 PM by Creampuf |
| | Blizzard gave each class a DPS tree (or more) for a reason. 'Nuff said. As long as that reason persists, there will not be any pure classes except DPS classes. Personally, I consider it a good thing. |
| Posted 08-17-2008 at 09:38 PM by Norrath |
| |  The thing that is killing the game is not the trees of each class (tho I must admit that the healers statement is true and each should have more options when healing) is more the "free" respecs you can get on your toon. I remember when playing DAoC. You could respec anytime.... anytime you killed a dragon and won the roll on the respec stone (imagine Azuregos, a encounter like that, but one for each faction). There was the same tank/healer shortage like in wow, (well not that much, I will explain later) but you know when you find healers and tanks that they were healers and tanks, and not someone who just respeced to get loot in a raid instance. About that shortage.... well... it's true that some dps classes are more beautiful than healing or tanking classes but this game, the dps classes were very weak when fighting. I mean, just when your uber-leet-pewpew-warlock gets oneshotted by overaggroing; they do good dps, but get killed by bosses. In DAoC very very few classes could solo which is not a very good thing, when we talk about pve. But when you did pvp, you NEEDED healers and tanks aswell, and healers and tanks had their duty and tools in pvp so they were usefull aswell... In wow, you get your protection warrior and what can you do? Spam some devastates or shield slams and silence some heal. If they target your healer, he dies and you can't do a thing against. If they target your DPS, he dies aswell. In wow, you are a rogue, a warlock, a mage, a hunter.... and you can solo plenty of classes, and can even perform a massacre before they get you down. Why are you gonna ask for a healer? Even if you are a healer, your DPS can't do much things to keep you alive if you are under attack. In DAoC, the tanks had tools to prevent healers from being damaged, they had stuns and some had even CC. You could even bring out a two-hander and bring some pretty good dps against cloth classes. In DAoC, your healers were not only healing. They also buffed you (with good buffs, and not some shit that are gone easily with a purge), they also dispeled, they also had very good tools for CC (specially aoe-cc's). So you rolled a tank or a healer, and you know that: - You had your place in pve - You had your place in pvp - You were getting whispers constantly because dps needed you to grind You could have fun in each aspect of the game with no need to respec at all. This old game, had its class balance. |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 02:10 AM by Narshe |
| | Worst bit is its not flame bait, we are punished for having other specs, especially tanks. Initially Paladins had no tanking talents baseline to prevent faction imbalance, but adding good talents in the protection tree shouldn't affect things if its done right. Tanks need a good baseline of abilities to handle most situations, and other classes (and tanks) need more to do in combat, no more single target single button kills, but a good rotation of abilities and debuffs. |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 04:53 AM by 2ndNin |
| | You make several points I agree wholeheartedly with. I disagree about adding cooldowns to heals. I have never played another MMO in my life. I hope Blizzard doesn't try to make WoW into an MMO other than what it is. Not being able to cat DPS when you're a Bear druid. . . as much as I hate to say it--you're right. The reason I hate to say it is because we use a druid heavily and he still comes in handy catting it up. |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 07:08 AM by Leytur |
| |  The problem is you can't heal or survive something to death. If healing classes are only capable of healing, or tanking classes are only capable of tanking, solo play goes completely out the window and the game fails. I played a Lugian Sage in Asheron's Call 2, and, when I was in a group of some sort, it was the most fun I've had as a healer (might just be nostalgia talking but I enjoyed it more than my Priest in WoW, which I also greatly enjoy). I had a rotation similar to what you described - AOE heal, AOE mana regen, single target heal on the tank, single target mana regen on myself, with AOE HoT's going up when they were off cooldown. It was tons of fun. The problem was I never played that character. In order to function, I had to have someone else around to do all the damage-dealing and damage-taking for me. So, when I'd log in, I'd stand around spamming LFG for 30 minutes until I finally found a group. The fact is that having "pure" healing and "pure" tanking classes - meaning classes with no DPS capabilities to speak of under any circumstances - destroys games. You made this point:
| |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 09:12 AM by Lore |
| | Basically we want to do everything without giving up anything. |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 09:45 AM by bludwork |
| | I agree wholeheartedly, the problems in WoW have always stemmed from balance. Be it from specs or pvp/pve, and so long as the attempt to balance continues the problems will remain. But don't ever fool yourself into beleiving that this balance is, or ever will be, remotely possible. |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 11:03 AM by Ceravantes |
| | The complaint I have is that they're trying to balance against things that aren't possible. Wrath is making good strong strides - I'd like to see them put more situational/panic moves now that they've baselined most things. Not every panic move is a survival move, some panic moves are threat generating moves. Leytur, to address what you said, I'm not saying make wow into a game it isn't. That said, Healing DESPERATELY needs to change. It's not just that healing is boring, it's that healing in wow is effectively the same as healing in the original everquest or even Diablo 2! You mash one button. zomg, heals! Tanking isn't that easy, we have a rotation of abilities that if we don't use, we or other people die. And yes, I'm aware, healing isn't actually that easy. Good healers DO have a rotation and play strategically. I want to see a system that shapes players into average to good players because the mechanics encourage it. I have a friend who played a shaman healer and gave it up for stormstrike crits because healing was boring. He put up earthshield... and mashed chainheal until earthshield went down, put earthshield back... and was bored as hell. He bought *cringe* a level 54 warrior from a real life friend of his and was trying to figure out how to survive in ungoro. We talked for a bit, he'd seen Taith's shield slam video, and asked me about prot builds. So I built him a prot build and showed him how dual wield devastate worked. Two days later I saw him playing and this is what he figured out, on his own, with no time ever spent in tankspot or faqs or anything: Shield slam. Revenge. Devastate. Devastate. Shield Slam. Revenge. Devastate. Devastate. The cooldown mechanics on shield slam and revenge caused it to make sense to him. So he put both on cooldown and used dev as filler until shield slam and revenge came up again. Cooldown mechanics ENCOURAGE rotations. |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 11:27 AM by Alent |
| | Definitely would like to see more rotations in the game. Most DPS classes have rotations (or are being pushed towards rotations in Wrath), healing needs better rotations as well. |
| Posted 08-18-2008 at 11:39 AM by Lore |
| | Although I never played WoW at beta or early launch (started at 1.4 or something) it seems to me that the design evolved a bit like this. In each case I'm describing what Blizzard's design must have been at the start of that phase of the game: Classic: There are specialist classes that have one role, and hybrids that can do two, three, or even four roles depending on how you count the variations. Specialist classes excel at one thing: Tanking, healing, or DPS. They either totally lack the abilities to perform other roles, or are very weak at them. Hybrids on the other hand are generalists. They can perform several roles and fluidly switch between them as the battle requires. In each role they're not nearly as good as the specialist, but their ability to handle a greater variety of situations makes them both self-sufficient and valuable in any team. Burning Crusade: There are pure classes and there are hybrids. Pure classes can do one role, and really should be preferred for that role when the very best performance is required. Hybrids are classes who can choose to perform two, three, or four roles by visiting the trainer to respec and equipping the appropriate specialist gear. In this way hybrids can focus on each role from time to time and develop it. Hybrids don't have the potential to match the specialists at their game, but they can come very close, and their ability to switch role as the needs of a guild change makes them a strong asset. Wrath of the Lich King: Each class has one or more roles open to it. For each role there is a matching spec and gear itemisation. To pick up a role a player is expected to spec and gear accordingly, and learn to play the role independently of the the others. All of the classes that do a role have an equal claim to it. That means classes that can do only one role (perhaps with some variation in style) and classes that can do that role amongst others, are able to perform the role equally well with equal investment. Players are expected to pick classes that offer the roles that they are interested in exploring, but also consider what roles they don't wish to do and avoid the classes that have them. Personally I like the sound of the Classic design. It didn't seem to work out. I dimly recall that early on in instances hybrids played as hybrids. Hunters off-tanked, more than one druid in the party shared healing and fighting as the situation demanded, paladins generally made themselves useful. We didn't LFM tank, healer, and three DPS. We took a mix of classes and expected players to make use of the armor, healing, and peak damage that the party had. Well, maybe we were noob. But maybe that was the design back then. Gradually that fell apart as people demanded to have clear roles as the healer, the tank, and so on. And I hear that raids never figured out a way to play with hybrid classes, so that was the end of the argument. Shame. It feels a bit like a lost opportunity. The Burning Crusade design has been miserable, to be honest. It started with a notion that players wanted clear roles, but kept the idea that hybrids were almost as good, but not really as good, as pure classes. Nobody was well served by that design and it quickly got revised. The design that we seem to have before us in WLK is at least reasonable and fair. It feels to me a bit... mechanical. Class X role Y, there you go, here's your talents, next! It's certainly better than the one in BC though and it's on firm ground to move forward. Maybe it'll be a lot of fun. It worked for me rolling this warrior. I wanted a tank, as I already had a DPS (mage). It turns out that my tank came with a "free" melee DPS role. Well I'm happy, I'll play that too. I don't want to heal for reasons to do with the user interface, and I'm happy that my warrior and mage don't do that role, so I'm not pressured into it. All good. It's a bit of a dry and practical way to look at classes, but it seems to work. |
| Posted 09-28-2008 at 12:20 AM by Machus Updated 09-28-2008 at 08:55 AM by Machus (Spelling & grammar) |
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