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Theotherone
08-31-2012, 11:29 AM
Prior to the patch dropping my DK, Pally and Warrior had dodge and parry within about 2% of each other (DK had a bit more parry so the difference was a bit higher); now each of these has a ton of parry compared to dodge, I'm talking 5 - 8% difference; did the patch change some behind the scenes with avoidance?

DK Parry 24.98%
Dodge 12.70%

Warrior Parry 23%
Dodge 13.54%

Pally logged out in my healing gear.

sifuedition
08-31-2012, 11:34 AM
They'll be along to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the preview stuff I was reading said the strength->parry conversion got a huge boost.

Zandragal
08-31-2012, 11:36 AM
Yeah, they changed the diminishing return values. Dodge now has a MUCH higher DR than Parry. Also, Strength now increases Parry a lot more than it used to do (pre-patch 654ish str for 1% parry, post-patch 243.6 str for 1% parry)

Takethecake
08-31-2012, 11:37 AM
Yeah the str to parry conversion rate was buffed to be more in line with the druid agi to dodge rate. Also the parry DR cap is much higher than dodge so it's much safer to stack parry higher than dodge. I believe most people are quoting parry should be 2-3 times dodge at lvl 90.

Theotherone
08-31-2012, 11:50 AM
Thanks, that makes sense now.

On the pally and warrior to get to hit cap and exp soft cap would you reforge Dodge over Mastery?

sifuedition
08-31-2012, 12:06 PM
I saw two completely conflicting reports on that. One said DR hasn't changed but the conversions did. Once said they have changed. Wasn't sure which was accurate but for "testing" I reforged parry->hit/exp first, then mastery to bring them more in line. Glad you asked Theotherone because I'm putting the cart before the horse, lol.

Zandragal
08-31-2012, 12:06 PM
I've seen it stated somewhere that at lvl 85 avoidance beats mastery, thus reforging out of mastery rather than dodge/parry is the way to go (if what I've heard is true).

At lvl 90, this is likely to change back, making mastery once again our "must-stack" ability.

Theotherone
08-31-2012, 12:24 PM
Hey, I guess there is some theory crafting to be done. :)

Tengenstein
08-31-2012, 12:25 PM
not really, it's mostly already been done

Zandragal
08-31-2012, 12:34 PM
Teng, I read your guide (good stuff btw!), and in it you seem to advocate the "stack mastery" path still. Is this meant for level 90, or is your opinion that at our current level, stacking mastery is still the way to go?

Tengenstein
08-31-2012, 01:02 PM
The guide is in regards to level 90. For the most part it's still relevant at 85, AFAIK the DRs aren't radically different relative to one another, Even with my current gearing where i'm stacking mastery, hit, and expertise hard caps where possible i've lost a grand total of maybe 3% total avoidance from where i was pre patch where almost every piece of gear was Master/parry/dodge. our gear just has so much Dodge, parry and Strength on it that we're hitting the DRs pretty hard. especially on dodge.

Unfortunatley there isn't a "universally best" way to gear for warriors; what's our best stat will change depending on what the boss thros at us; Is he dual wielding or otherwise have a fast attack speed? does he have a really slow attack speed? are his attacks blockable? are they Magic? are there adds? what are there attacks like? is there an unavoidable tank nuke like Impale? what can prevent that? is there some funky gimmick buff?

You really have to understand how our stats affect our damage intake and what kind of intake we'll get of any given encounter you do and gear accordingly. If thats not something you;re willing to comprehend but you still want to tank everything in cata, get yourself to 220k HP raid buffed, prioritise to mastery, don't skimp on the hit and expertise, and accept you will have enough avoidance off your gear.

Airowird
08-31-2012, 11:26 PM
The point of the new avoidance DRs is that you get avoidance from upgrading gear to higher strength, yet at the same time, on an expected level of dodge/parry vs strength, dodge & parry ratings should be equally valuable when close together. I'll be able to get more specifics later this week.

Bigbad
09-02-2012, 02:40 AM
Is there any way to know the DR on parry and dodge? Not that it's really needed with the current priorities but I kinda liked the way it was before same DR and hold the line making parry slightly better, seems they made it more difficult to understand again.

Tengenstein
09-02-2012, 04:20 AM
Parry was only slightly better after reaching the CTC cap, by which time you usually were so far into diminishing returns it didn't really matter. Something most warrior's failed to understand.

If I've got the gist of this right, I beleive we can borrow the following formula from Theck's blog (http://sacredduty.net/2012/08/27/patch-5-0-4-round-up/);

Csheet parry = Naked parry + 238.4/91.57 x (Csheet dodge - Naked dodge)

is the optimal balance, if the right side of the equation is greater you should reforge to Parry, if its smaller you should reforge to dodge.

Bigbad
09-02-2012, 11:05 AM
Parry was only slightly better after reaching the CTC cap, by which time you usually were so far into diminishing returns it didn't really matter. Something most warrior's failed to understand.

If I've got the gist of this right, I beleive we can borrow the following formula from Theck's blog (http://sacredduty.net/2012/08/27/patch-5-0-4-round-up/);

Csheet parry = Naked parry + 238.4/91.57 x (Csheet dodge - Naked dodge)

is the optimal balance, if the right side of the equation is greater you should reforge to Parry, if its smaller you should reforge to dodge.

Thanks, guess I'll be using this crazy math equation during MoP....