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View Full Version : Alright folks, here's a doozy (Kept me up till 1:30 this morning and not fixed)



Krenian
04-16-2012, 05:35 AM
Alright so I've got quite a peculiar problem at this time and I've googled it, I've played around with the settings but nothing seems to be working out for me:

I have 12 gigs of ram (I can have 16 but I am seriously thinking that the mem slot is actually doing shorts and is shutting down my pc anytime I game hardcore.)

The thing is that Windows and my BIOS sees the 12 gigs. However no matter what I do, no matter where I put the sticks, I always only have 4 gigs of ram with 8 gigs reserved in the "Hardware Reserved" section.

- Checked the msconfig boot advanced options and whether I have it checkmarked or not, it still gives me the same problem.

- Played with the DRAM settings: nothing. Whether I have it at 1600 DRAM like it should be or downgrade to something else, I still get the same problem.

- Newer board that doesn't have a AGP section so there is no AGP solution possible on the board right now and thus the AGP solution of switching how much MB goes to the card isn't possible.

I'm honestly stumped. I have been fiddling with this for over two days and haven't figured it out. Have at it.

sifuedition
04-16-2012, 07:07 AM
Go into your bios. Motherboards now are capable of making "memory raids". Like harddrives in raid, these are redundant arrays for memory. See if you have a section of the bios that sounds like that might be what it's doing.

prplneon
04-16-2012, 07:32 AM
Are you running a 64bit OS? 32Bit will not use over 4gb.

sifuedition
04-16-2012, 08:03 AM
Good call. I was thinking he said it sees 12 instead of 16. After your comment I re-read that and he said 4. That sounds like the most likely issue.

Seanjones80
04-16-2012, 09:47 AM
Yeah defo a 32bit os. Hence the hardware reversed crap

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk

Kazeyonoma
04-16-2012, 11:41 AM
yeah. the fact it's capped at 4 immediately jumped out at me as a 32 bit OS cap. you gonna need to upgrade to 64 if you aren't already.

Krenian
04-16-2012, 11:56 AM
God damnit, I could have sworn I had written this in the first paragraph...

It's Windows 7 x64. Sorry for not clearing that up!

Aggathon
04-16-2012, 11:59 AM
God damnit, I could have sworn I had written this in the first paragraph...

It's Windows 7 x64. Sorry for not clearing that up!

Are you SURE!? lol.

Slyvar
04-16-2012, 12:00 PM
I would remove and reseat all RAM modules and also reset the bios to default. I've also seen this issue if you try running triple-channel memory in a dual-channel motherboard, for example. The only reason I bring this up is because the 12GB kits are usually triple-channel, and I could have swore you said you got an i5, which runs on dual-channel mobos.


EDIT: One more thing to be weary of -- If you got an Asus motherboard (which I think you said you did), they have lists of compatible memory. If the memory is incompatible (not on the list), then it is possible it will not work or will display incorrect totals in the OS. Most Asus motherboards now have a "memOK" button that you can press. You turn on the machine and then press the memOK button before the bios post screen goes away. This can have the effect of making incompatible memory, compatible by adjusting the timings automatically.

The memOK button is usually a very small button (maybe 1/2cm wide) in the upper right hand corner of the motherboard. If memOK doesn't do it, and it's not on the compatibility list, you may need to exchange for a brand/model that is on the list.

Krenian
04-16-2012, 12:27 PM
Already did MemOK and no problems, still registering the same problem.

Also removed the sticks and put em back in. That's why I actually realized that one of my slots is not working properly; putting memory in there would crash my system after playing a graphic intensive game. Taking the stick out does not cause any problems.

Also set it to stock and absolutely nothing happens. BTW the mobo is a dual channel, not a triple channel board. So I'm using two 4 sticks in dual channel and one in single channel. Still getting 12 gigs active, only 4 gigs usable.

BTW the memory is compatible; the two older sticks I had of 4 gigs each were of the same company and mark so I didn't defer from them. I know ASUS to be a lil anal about that so I tried to stay in the same brand.


Like I said, I've done some research and it just doesn't seem to want to NOT put 8 gigs of ram inside Hardware Reserved mode.

Reev
04-16-2012, 12:28 PM
I never really thought about how to spell "doozy" before. Funny looking word.

Slyvar
04-16-2012, 12:32 PM
Can you install CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html) go to the memory tab, take a screenshot and put that somewhere that we can see it?

It is possible that it is a bent CPU pin as well. Which would suck, because Asus does not cover that under their warranty.


EDIT: Have you tried putting in the memory modules one at a time? Put one in, start up, check the OS for displayed memory, then keep going until all 3 modules are installed. It might be able to tell you if one of the sticks is going bad (when you put in the bad stick it won't register fully).

Krenian
04-16-2012, 12:38 PM
Yeah for sure. I'll do that when I get home. It recognizes all three no problems too.

EDIT; Yep, did all that. Inserted one at a time, let it load up into Windows, checked.

First stick: 4 gigs
Second stick: 4 gigs, 4 reserved (dual channel mode)
Third stick: 4 gigs, 8 reserved

Aggathon
04-16-2012, 01:11 PM
the two older sticks I had of 4 gigs each were of the same company and mark so I didn't defer from them. I know ASUS to be a lil anal about that so I tried to stay in the same brand.


I usually don't try to mix ram types at all. CAS latency can be different, just... it all seems a bit wonky to me whenever I've mixed ram. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, even if they technically have the same ratings.

Now, I also don't know how dual channel really works, my computer supposedly has it but it's never worked quite right and my PC screams along just fine anyways so I've never worried about it, but is the ram slot you think is "bad" the "single channel" slot? It might be putting the other 2 sticks in hardware reserve if you have ram in the single channel slot. WTF is hardware reserve anyways.

Slyvar
04-16-2012, 01:15 PM
CPU-Z probably won't tell us much then. Here's an article on TechNet that you may or may not have seen yet:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/978610

Krenian
04-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Seen it, still doesn't fix anything. Was one of the first ones. But it just started doing this; I had 16 gigs free before. Why, all of a sudden, with this ram, do I have problems.

Leucifer
04-16-2012, 01:53 PM
My thoughts?

1) Which version of Windows 7 64 bit? Home? Premium? Ultimate? Each version has a different memory cap.

2) What frequency are you setting the RAM? Try 1333. There's a known issue with some Asus boards.

I think the heart of the issue is this........


BTW the mobo is a dual channel, not a triple channel board. So I'm using two 4 sticks in dual channel and one in single channel. Still getting 12 gigs active, only 4 gigs usable.


I think because it's only a dual channel board, and you're using 3 sticks, it's automatically setting up to a single channel.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/285172-30-memory-sticks-dual-channel-mobo

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2157106

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235719

Essentially, if it's a dual channel board, sticks need to be run in pairs.

Try running just 8GB, two sticks, and see what happens.

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 02:00 PM
1) Which version of Windows 7 64 bit? Home? Premium? Ultimate? Each version has a different memory cap.

All of them, except home basic (which you cannot buy in Europe or the USA) support at least 16GB of RAM


2) What frequency are you setting the RAM? Try 1333. There's a known issue with some Asus boards.

already told Kren to try this, didn't work


I think because it's only a dual channel board, and you're using 3 sticks, it's automatically setting up to a single channel.

Doesn't dual/tri/quad channel only change the rate of access to memory, not the amount of memory used? So three sticks, two (4GB each) in dual channel and one (4GB) in single channel would be 12GB, running in single channel.

Krenian
04-16-2012, 02:40 PM
Already tried with two sticks in dual channel.

Gives me 4 gbs, with 4 gbs going into the reserved.

I'm telling you, it has consistently baffled me on just how anal the PC is being in regards to ram!

Reev
04-16-2012, 02:41 PM
Hmmmm.... Try hitting the motherboard with a sledgehammer, then buying one that works?

Krenian
04-16-2012, 02:41 PM
As amusing as this would be, I would rather not buy a new mobo considering I do have a certain huge event coming up come July.

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 02:43 PM
I'm sure your fiancée would understand the need to spend over 100 bucks on a motherboard for a 3 year old socket that you probably can only source from Ebay nowadays :D

Reev
04-16-2012, 02:44 PM
You need your old motherboard for "something old?" Get the new motherboard for "something new!" You're on your own for something borrowed and something blue.

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 02:44 PM
Asus motherboards are blue.

Reev
04-16-2012, 02:45 PM
Asus motherboards are blue.

Woot! Now what can he borrow?

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 02:46 PM
The sledgehammer? And keep it next to the computer as a perpetual warning, like the Sword of Damocles.

truculent
04-16-2012, 02:47 PM
Hmmmm.... Try hitting the motherboard with a sledgehammer, then buying one that works?

/thread

Reev
04-16-2012, 02:48 PM
The sledgehammer? And keep it next to the computer as a perpetual warning, like the Sword of Damocles.

Haha, Sword of Damocles! +1

I totally want to hang a sledgehammer on my wall over my computer now.

Leucifer
04-16-2012, 02:57 PM
Doesn't dual/tri/quad channel only change the rate of access to memory, not the amount of memory used? So three sticks, two (4GB each) in dual channel and one (4GB) in single channel would be 12GB, running in single channel.

Yeah. You're right. Hm.......


Asus motherboards are blue.

Not true......

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131665



Hmmmm.... Try hitting the motherboard with a sledgehammer, then buying one that works?


The sledgehammer? And keep it next to the computer as a perpetual warning, like the Sword of Damocles.

^ This........

Looking at everything else you've tried.... I'm thinking either need to flash/reset the BIOS, hope this fixes the problem, or bin the board.

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 02:59 PM
Looking at everything else you've tried.... I'm thinking either need to flash/reset the BIOS, hope this fixes the problem, or bin the board.

Or live with it and make do.

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 03:07 PM
Or it is the memory controller on the CPU. Remember you had that problem with the thermal paste a while back? While you had those obscenely high temperatures something in the CPU could have gotten bust.

Slyvar
04-16-2012, 03:31 PM
Or, with all the pulling in and out of CPU and heatsink, it is quite possible a bent pin happened. I'd say about 90% of the time, misreported memory sizes are bent CPU pins.

Also a reported temp of 65C isn't obscenely high on an i3/5 (This is the temp I remember Kren talking about in the shoutbox). The Sandy Bridge CPU's hit the "danger zone" at 90C. So, unless you were hitting temps of around 90C-100C sustained, I really doubt the heat damaged the CPU. Mind you, it's not impossible, but improbable.

(The downside is, with all the pins in those sockets, it is very difficult to spot an actual bent one.)

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 03:34 PM
I thought he was talking about an idle temperature of 65°C, not a load temperature.

Seanjones80
04-16-2012, 04:23 PM
Which version of win 7? Some of the basic versions have RAM capped

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk

Fetzie
04-16-2012, 05:20 PM
Which version of win 7? Some of the basic versions have RAM capped

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk

The only versions of Windows 7 that you can buy in the USA, Canada and Europe are Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate, and they all support at least 16GB of RAM. We already cleared Windows of being the culprit.

Slyvar
04-16-2012, 05:40 PM
I thought he was talking about an idle temperature of 65°C, not a load temperature.

That very well could be. :P

leethaxor
04-16-2012, 07:19 PM
I would try to flash your bios. It sounds like a problem with your bridges.

You mentioned that changes happen with your overclock. When you over clock your cpu you normally also ramp up the speed at which the bridges feed information into your cpu. As the bridge is providing the link between your ram and cpu (and you cpu obviously isn't broken). I would look at that since you have verified each stick has worked.

The bridge is managed by the bios, I don't think you can really run a diagnosis on it, but you can flash your bios and just re-install it.

And that's what I would do. It sounds like a strange problem with the bios.

Krenian
04-16-2012, 07:32 PM
Flashing the BIOS did nothing. Just FYI.

Leucifer
04-16-2012, 08:15 PM
Well crap....

You've eliminated a lot of possibilities. Looking back.... a couple questions....


I have 12 gigs of ram (I can have 16 but I am seriously thinking that the mem slot is actually doing shorts and is shutting down my pc anytime I game hardcore.)

So, you were having problems with one of the slots as it was? What was it doing before? How was it behaving previously? BSOD? Random shutdown? This might give us some ideas as to what the issue is.


Seen it, still doesn't fix anything. Was one of the first ones. But it just started doing this; I had 16 gigs free before. Why, all of a sudden, with this ram, do I have problems.

What kind of RAM chipsets are these? Are all 3 different? What's different about what you're trying to use now compared to previously?

By the way, what voltages are you running these at? DDR3 is set to run between 1.5V to 1.65V. Pushing it beyond that can cause problems, and there was mention that you were overclocking.

I just find it strange that the BIOS and Windows is seeing all 3 sticks, but is reserving some for hardware. What is it saying is "occupying" that memory?

Check this when you get a chance.... you'll see what I mean. http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/07/21/3092070.aspx
(http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/07/21/3092070.aspx)
He talks about memory remapping.

Krenian
04-16-2012, 08:56 PM
Problems - Playing intensive games, the rig shuts down. Just outright shuts down. My synopsis is that now that I've taken the stick out of the slot, it's no longer giving me any problems so the ram slot must be shorting at some point during the processes and just shuts the PC down to make sure it doesn't overload the mobo.

I had 8 gigs of ram before. Same company (Corsair). I got a deal for 16 gigs for Corsair ram, 1600, and 4 sticks. We're running it at 1.5 for safety measures; I've upped it to 1.65 but it still does nothing.

That's the thing; I have NO idea what is occupying the memory; there's nothing that I can do to see it.

Also, already checked the memory remapping tool, and it's already enabled on my mobo.

leethaxor
04-16-2012, 09:09 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18751542.jpg

Leucifer
04-16-2012, 09:13 PM
Problems - Playing intensive games, the rig shuts down. Just outright shuts down. My synopsis is that now that I've taken the stick out of the slot, it's no longer giving me any problems so the ram slot must be shorting at some point during the processes and just shuts the PC down to make sure it doesn't overload the mobo.

This to me suggests that when the PC tries to tap into that extra memory, it hits a terminal error and just flat out fails. Going off of what you did, pulling the memory, and the response, that would seem to be the issue. Which sucks because it suggests that the slot itself might be bad or that part of what allows the CPU to utilize that slot could have an issue. It's not entirely bad because the BIOS and Windows DO SEE it. But, when it tries to actually utilize it..... bad crap happens.

In any case.... it points out to a bad mobo. Is it still under warranty? Which socket is it?


I had 8 gigs of ram before. Same company (Corsair). I got a deal for 16 gigs for Corsair ram, 1600, and 4 sticks. We're running it at 1.5 for safety measures; I've upped it to 1.65 but it still does nothing.

The sticks themselves might not be matched up or have issues also. There may be issues with one or two of the 4 sticks. This is one of the reasons why I generally try to grab sticks with larger capacity.... reducing the number of potential places that problems might occur. You might be able to utilize the two old sticks and the "known good" sticks out of the 16 gig set.



That's the thing; I have NO idea what is occupying the memory; there's nothing that I can do to see it.

Also, already checked the memory remapping tool, and it's already enabled on my mobo.

Did you try this?..........

http://www.winsiderss.com/tools/meminfo/meminfo.htm

(http://www.winsiderss.com/tools/meminfo/meminfo.htm)Kind of a brute force tool to tell you where exactly memory is allocated..... though, going by what you said above... I'm leaning towards there being an issue with the hardware.

Leucifer
04-16-2012, 09:14 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18751542.jpg

lmao.........

Reminds me of an old friend.....

"Red means 'STOP!' Green means 'GO!' Yellow means 'GO FASTER!!!!!'"

Aggathon
04-16-2012, 09:41 PM
Don't RAM problems usually end in blue screens? Not shutdowns? To me this would lean my "weird shit-o-meter" towards mobo socket bad. Someone earlier was talking that it might be your memory controller, granted I am way behind on modern CPU design, but I thought intell's memory controllers were still on the northbridge not on the die itself. If not this could be an issue too.

The only thing you can do to eliminate RAM as the problem is to not put your ram in the "suspect" Ram slot, and rotate all of your ram sticks through every other slot and do your test that crashes it. If all combinations don't work, I'd say your RAM is okay. There's also a program you can boot from disk or floppy (http://www.memtest.org/) that checks every single memory address. You can try running this program while only having 1 stick of RAM in at a time in a known good slot to test the sticks themselves. Then put 1 stick in the "Bad" slot and try again. Some mobos you have to have a stick in like "slot 1" at least but then can have 1 in any other slot, if this is the case well just use 2 sticks.

You've got to eliminate all possibilities since there are multiple things that could be failures.

Idk... I think it's an outside shot, but I really think there may be an underlying power issue somewhere. Usually RAM issues cause blue screens, not power shorting issues.

Actually here's something... have you tried re-seating your motherboard? It will probably require you to re-set your heat sink which will mean re-applying the thermal paste, but if your Mobo isn't mounted properly something could be shorting the motherboard to the case, if it's the right solder point I guess it feasibly could be related to a ram slot you're accessing.

Krenian
04-17-2012, 05:11 AM
One of the things I did when I actually was testing the memory (I already did the test by sliding each memory stick in another slot and not having the computer fail on me, which means I'm almost positive it's the slot), was to make sure everything was seated properly. The Heatsink is properly seated and working fine, and so is the mobo and every card. So that's something I can scratch out.

Honestly, I've gone away from only being able to get 12 gigs. So be it; I can't use that slot. My major concern right now is that 12 gigs being read and only 4 usable with 8 in the Hardware Reserve section.

I'm thinking of downgrading back to the first BIOS by flashing it, and then seeing if Windows will recognize all of it. It might be the latest version doesn't work as well as it should...If that doesn't work, I'll flash it back to the latest version and just grump. I mean, I can play games with 4 gigs of ram hands down; that's not the problem. I just dislike the idea that 2/3rds of my ram is not bloody available for use.

Fetzie
04-17-2012, 05:44 AM
if your Mobo isn't mounted properly something could be shorting the motherboard to the case, if it's the right solder point I guess it feasibly could be related to a ram slot you're accessing.

Any motherboard short-circuiting will cause the computer to not post at all, and will either trigger an error beep code or a debug code on the motherboard if you have it.