View Full Version : Madness Help

12-20-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm at wits end figuring out what to do. We decided to go 1 tank, 2 healers for Madness and we're getting 4% wipes on Madness because I am dying from tetanus in P2. So I have a couple questions. What can I do to help mitigate the damage from both of the terrors? I keep getting hit with shrapnel so dream is down when I pick up both of the adds. I sometimes can use shield wall, but I've been using shield wall on the blue platform to help the raid mitigate the damage from the blood. Should I not use it on the platform and save it for P2? The raid is VERY low by the time we get to P2.

Prot warrior
Holy pally
Resto druid

is what we are currently using.

My other question is, what is the average DPS that must be output in order to succeed? We've chopped out a tank and are having one of the healers DPS.



12-20-2011, 10:22 AM
Your Shaman's DPS is surely lacking. For 1 Tank 2 Healers, you will need lots of raid DPS to be able to burst down Deathwing on P2 before Tetanus overwhelms your healers. I also don't think Warriors are the best tanks for this due to your limited cooldown arsenal.

However, there is something you could try. Instruct your raid to focus fire down one of the Terrors and after one of them dies have one of your raiders (say, the Paladin or the DK) taunt and kite the Terror until your Tetanus stacks drops. Afterwards pick it up again and finish killing it. Proceed to killing Deathwing. You could also gear for more Stamina in this particular fight.

Having tried a variety of compositions for this fight (1 Tank 2 Healers, 1 Tank 3 Healers and 2 Tanks 3 Healers), I would recommend going 2 Tanks and 3 Healers, if you have the luxury of doing so. Of course, anything from 1-2 Tanks and 2-3 Healers works, but that comp. ensures maximum control; phase 2 is cake with that comp.

Depending on your healing comp you could do with 2 Tanks 2 Healers (ie, a Resto Shaman and a Disc Priest have very good mitigation cooldowns for the Elementium Bolt; and since you have 4 piece T13...) but I'd go the safe way. After the Mutated Corruption dies, one your healers can go DPS mode anyway. This worked greatly for us as our Resto Shaman could heal like there was no tomorrow and would recover all of his mana through the Telluric Currents talent by going DPS afterwards.

You might have to blow a BL on the last platform depending on your raid DPS, to ensure Deathwing does not cast Cataclysm, but that's alright. If you can save it for P2 that's great, but not really necessary. Once again, P2 is cake with this comp.

As an extra note, Feral Tanks seem to be great on this fight. On my raid he could dish out 31K DPS.

12-20-2011, 10:33 AM
How are you doing phase 2? Are you killing 1 wave of adds then just burning deathwing? Or is it the first terrors that spawn that kill you before the ranged kills them? I would recommend focus firing the terrors if that's the case.

What I would do is:
Land on platform, DPS Deatwhing until the adds spawn.
Kill all adds and terrors
Back on Deathwing, controlled DPS down to 11% and STOP don't hit 10% because it will increase corrupted blood damage. Wait for a new add wave to spawn, and kill everything. Once the Terrors are dead, hit bloodlust and just burn deathwing, ignore any adds that spawn unless terrors spawn then you just pick them up and use every cooldown and trick in the book to stay alive until deathwing dies.

12-20-2011, 10:48 AM
The shaman is main spec resto. He doesn't DPS very often. I will see if the kiting trick works.

We are killing the tentacles then getting on DW. When the terrors spawn I pick them up but I generally die before the first one is dead.

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12-21-2011, 06:55 AM
because I am dying from tetanus in P2.

We noticed last night (12/20/2011) that Tetnus seems to apply a lot slower than previous weeks, especially the first tick. Normally, the first add is at about 50% before I have to begin using chain CDs; this week, all I had to do was use Dream on both adds because Tetnus only stacked to 4.

This may help some of your woes.

12-21-2011, 07:05 AM
Hopefully get to try again tonight, lots of people are on Christmas break. Thanks for the help, guys.

12-21-2011, 09:22 AM
You have a frost DK in your group who can easily tank these terrors with glyphed AMS (7 seconds of immunity). Have him switch to blood presence, taunt them and pop AMS. He should move them into the yellow aspect bubble, because it slows application of the debuff. Once his AMS falls off, you can pick them up. Blow lust when he has them, and focus one of them down. By the time his AMS runs out, there should only be one left, and you can pick it up from him. Burn down the second (keeping it in the bubble), then have all dps switch back to the boss.

For the second set of adds, dps should ignore them. Just have them burn the boss through lust. Someone should call out shrapnel targets so they can hit dream at the right time, and if terrors spawn again, just pick them up and let the dps finish the burn.

12-22-2011, 08:06 PM
We noticed last night (12/20/2011) that Tetnus seems to apply a lot slower than previous weeks, especially the first tick. Normally, the first add is at about 50% before I have to begin using chain CDs; this week, all I had to do was use Dream on both adds because Tetnus only stacked to 4.

We noticed the same thing, I know we have got better at the fight but the first week we had 3 tank deaths on 4 adds, now the stacks getting to like 2 stacks on one tank and 4 on the second.

12-22-2011, 08:09 PM
If you tank the adds inside the barrier area that nozdormu casts, they apply Tetanus much less frequently, and attack much more slowly. Could this be what happened?

12-23-2011, 12:04 PM
If you tank the adds inside the barrier area that nozdormu casts, they apply Tetanus much less frequently, and attack much more slowly. Could this be what happened?

We tanked the adds in the barrier both weeks. We could have done something different though? Would like more confirmations.

12-24-2011, 12:27 PM
If you tank the adds inside the barrier area that nozdormu casts, they apply Tetanus much less frequently, and attack much more slowly. Could this be what happened?

We had the adds in the yellow both times too, it could be barrier was buggy or we really were not in it.

01-04-2012, 03:14 AM
I'll hijack that thread - Don't want to open a new one :)

My team had it's first full DS raid last ID. We wiped 16 times at Madness. First of all, we just have two healers, so we went for the 1 tank / 2 healer strat. The first try were all about figuring out how to deal with CDs etc.etc.

We went with: Green - Red - Yellow - Blue
This worked out fine, but we couldn't survive the second wave of Blistering Tentacles (they are growing out of one limb of deathwing) on the last plattform. We were really trying our best, but we needed some of our healers cooldowns to survive the Elementium Bolt. Our DPS were able to finish the Mutated Corruption, we had a spot next to the Limb marked, everybody was going there in time, the Disc popped the Bubble, Tank used CD, Retri used Bubble, Rogue used Cloak of Shadows...
We used heroism on the first spawn of Blistering Tentacles (It lasts until the second), but we just died. Disc/Druid could'nt keep the group up anymore. Is it a DPS issue there? (None of our DPS has a T13-4 bonus, Retri is a first time raider).
This is the log: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/22739091

So we were a little bit heart-broken. The healers had the perfect CD usage.. we used Potions of Concentration, Mana was no issue. We also used Shadowpriests Divine Hymn on Plattform 3 to ensure mana efficient healing.

For our last try we tried something new - full of motivation!
Green - Red - Blue - Yellow
We did so we won't have the impact of the last Elementium Bolt and could save our healing CDs for the last Wing Tentacel/Blistering Tentacle spawns. Everything worked out fine.. BUT...
With the lack of the 20% DMG buff, we weren't able to get the Regenerative Blood down. We kept trying - And finally died on Cataclysm :D
- Is it possible to just offtank the last regenerative blood? Will they be there in P2? Would that matter?
- Is our AoE DPS too low? I myself, the Disc, do Holy Nova. For next week I advised: (Still will this be enough?)
+ Restro Druid to also do his AoE thing (Whatever he can do in Restro specc, not quite sure which spells available)
+ Our retri to time his cd/gcd Crusader Strike better, so he can do more AoE-DPS (He was the lowest).
+ The tank to go next to the Wing Tentacle with the adds, so our 2 fire mages can "transfer" their fire mage thing to the Blood (Right now they were just doing the Arcane AoE)
- Is Yellow at last doable? If we would be able to bring down the blood, is it still possible to kill the Wing Tentacle and not run into Cataclysm without the 20% DMG buff (blue)?
- Am I myself a too shitty healer? In the logs I am always about 5k HPS behind the Druid? I always give PI to a mage, PoH the Blistering Tentacles, GH the Impact of the Mutated Corruption, keep PWS on the Tank, PoM on CD when we are not doing the Mutated Corruption.
This it the log: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/22739092#damageout

I also read all your tips regarding P2 (Stopping at 11%), I hope we will be able to survive that phase!

01-04-2012, 04:07 AM
If you wanted to change your order, I would suggest Green Yellow Red Blue - but it's not much different to the original order you had, which is also certainly viable. Any sequence that doesn't end with Kalecgos is going to be hard. G/Y/R/B means you have 2 un-slowed elementium bolts to handle, but only 1 platforms worth of Blistering Tentacles to handle. From your post, I can't tell whether you are trying to kill the blistering tentacles or just heal through them? I trust you know that they are immune to AOE so you need all your dps to switch and single target them. Depending on your overall DPS, it can be possible to ignore the last round of them, but it would probably be better to assume that you need to kill them all.

The fight in general is a lot easier with higher DPS. There are many subtle DPS checks in there. A big factor comes from familiarity, switching very quickly and efficiently between the targets, but of course gear and player skill is a factor too.

Your final try order, not killing Kalecgos last, is hard and I wouldn't recommend it. You can't just offtank the bloods, you need to do a timed burst of AOE that starts just after they regenerate, or some very efficient assist chains.

01-04-2012, 04:27 AM
We always killed the Blistering Tentacles with Single DMG, was no problem they went down before anybody in the Raid had more than 20 stacks of that nasty debuff.

Your final try order, not killing Kalecgos last, is hard and I wouldn't recommend it. You can't just offtank the bloods, you need to do a timed burst of AOE that starts just after they regenerate, or some very efficient assist chains.

Do you mean we should stat AoE, wait until the regenerate and then do a organized AoE? Or try to kill them with an organized AoE when they spawn?

01-04-2012, 05:38 AM
Wait until they've done their first regeneration, then do a big coordinated burst of AOE. If you watch their energy bars, you can do a count down on voice as it goes from 80 to 100 (which is when it regens). Damage before they regen is basically wasted, unless it's some kind of class with a ramp up. But as I said, I wouldn't recommend this. We didn't kill Deathwing on week 1 because we were trying this approach. Switching to Green Yellow Red Blue made it a lot easier.

01-04-2012, 01:54 PM
I'm not sure if it is possible to let Regenerative Bloods alive, but you could try. Your DK tank's AMS can prevent applications of Degenerative Bite and tanking them in the Time Zone ensures stack growth should be moderately slow. This won't stop them from stacking high, but your Warrior can Challenging Shout them if stacks go out of control to allow them to reset on your DK.

The Regenerative Bloods should follow you to Ysera's platform on P2 but that shouldn't be a problem. With Kalecgos up, Spellweave makes AoE'ing them down cake. At this point you can probably use them to intelligently DPS down Elementium Fragments or Terrors.

AoE'ing them down at Nozdormu's own platform can be done but requires tremendous coordination and AoE throughput. We tried this strat but gave up on it. I read about some people single targeting Bloods as they spawned. Might be more effective, not sure.

Having tried a variety of comps, we settled for 2 tanks 3 healers which is just overall more controlled and went Ysera>Alextrasza>Nozdormu>Kalecgos. A Resto Shaman is nice in this comp not only because of SLT and Ancestral Fortitude on the tank but also because after the Mutated Corruption dies, he can pretty much go into DPS mode and Telluric Currents during extra damage on Deahtwing's Limbs ensures his mana will top again. This allowed him to go all out on healing for the periods Mutated Corruption was alive and he easily topped our healing meters.

01-11-2012, 01:30 AM
As swelt suggested we went with the original strat (last) - and it worked out fine.
This time we used from the beginning 3 healers (disc/druid as usual and a shaman who helped out this time). Therefore our Raidleader ProtWarri(But in this fight also Fury) switched out of the fight. Mana was no issue over the whole fight.

- Elementium Bolt survived by personal CDs (Cloak of Shadow, Pain Suppression..)
- Mutated Corruption always went done before the 2nd Impale (6DDs)
- We used Heroism right at the beginning and beginning of P2
- We tried to ignore the Blistering Tentacles, but this went awfully wrong. I would not recommed this
- P2: We nuked him until the First tentacles and 2 Big Adds spawned, killed them all, then we did no Nukestop or nothing at 10%, we just kept doing DPS. When the second wave off tentacles and 2 Big Adds spawned, we just killed the tentacles and our DK Tank offtanked the Big Adds until Deathwing was down.

Our DPS:
- Fury: 49k
- Fire Mage: 48k
- Fire Mage: 47k
- Shadow 43k
- Retri 39k
- Survival: 38k
- DK Tank: 28k
- Disc Heal: 11k
- Shaman Heal: 3k

Thanks for all the advice here!!

01-17-2012, 12:15 PM
Just in case people are still looking at the fight...

We basically brute force healed the fight with 3 healers, 2 tanks, and 5 dps. We did it this way because on a couple of attempts we would either hit the enrage time, or the Blue platform would get Cataclysm off, and we would die.

Prot Warrior x2
Frost DK
Kitty Druid
Shadow Priest
Fire Mage
Destro Lock
Resto Shammy
Holy Pally
Tree Druid

For platforms, we did Green - Red - Yellow - Blue.

We used Heroism on the very first platform, when the tentacle spawned. Other than that, nothing out of the ordinary for this platform, or for the Red platform.

On Yellow, we killed the tentacle, dps'd the wing/talon, killed the bloods, killed the first set of Blistering tentacles (that spawn at 70%), ignored the second set of Blistering Tentacles (at 40%).

On Blue, all the raid except for the tank ran away from Elementium Bolt, and used defensive CD's to survive the Bolt and it's subsequent aoe pulse. After the bolt hit, we used Lay on Hands on the active tank. After that, we repeated what we did on yellow. Kill bloods, kill first set of tentacles, ignored second set of tentacles. I don't remember the time left until Cataclysm hit, but I'm believe it was < 20 seconds.

For phase 2, we dps'd Deathwing until the adds popped. Used Dream if we were shrapnel targets. Killed that wave of adds. Popped Heroism again, burned Deathwing and ignored any future adds.

Almost forgot - logs for the night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ixsj7ea7lterlbwn/

01-18-2012, 04:39 PM
For our group a 1/2/7 setup. tank=pali, heals=shaman(me) pali. We do GRYB. As for the P2 adds, we burn the first set down. the tank bubles him self to get rid of the debuff, he does this after the first add is dead and when the 2nd add is almost dead. Or when healers yell for it. Bubbles, clicks it off, taunts, Finish add. Hero burn the crap outa the boss. 2nd set of adds spawn. we ignore them and finish the boss. We have only done this once, but seemed to work. Gonna try it again this week . Dream is a must in p2. Saves the heals so much pain :)