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View Full Version : Tanking Soulshifter Vortex?



BryceE
12-16-2011, 09:23 PM
I just got this like 2mins ago. I tried it out and it like doubled my mastery when it proc'd. I didn't really lose all that much from my CTC cap either, one or two more pieces and I can use it, but once I'm CTC capped I'm thinking its not that good since I'm a pally.

Tengenstein
12-17-2011, 01:32 AM
I'm a warrior and I don't like it. If i'm not CTC capped i'd rather be having passive mastery than passive stam. And if i am CTC capped the mastery proc is not great. Prolly good for DKs though

klausi
12-17-2011, 10:11 AM
And if i am CTC capped the mastery proc is awesome.
Fixed :) 30% more critical block chance. Add shield block and you can reach 100% critical block chance on fights like Ultraxion.

Tengenstein
12-17-2011, 10:41 AM
I'd rather have more parry/dodge/stamina than more crit block.

klausi
12-17-2011, 11:13 AM
Well there's no stamina/stamina trinket out there so you'll have to live with that or use :) Sadly dodge/parry are just to expensive to stack them far behind 2500 rating unbuffed, we could easily push for another 1000-1500 avoidance rating (that dodge trinket alone grants us 780-980 dodge rating).

Alternatives? Heroic Scales of Life (+650) is okay i guess, but it's 125 stamina behind heroic pride/vortex (a 2200 hitpoints deficit). Heroic Vial (+544) is another 100 stamina behind, the real question should be: do i have enough/to much mastery thus i can use stamina gems, souldrinker and two stamina trinkets? If not i can use mirror/spindle/vp one + pride and swap around depending on the fight.

Selendis
12-17-2011, 11:51 AM
well, for the normal version 2904 mastery rating. 179.28 rating per point of mastery, 1,5% crit block per point of mastery.
2904/179,24 * 1,5 = 24,3 percent chance of a critical block.
That is actually way better than I had initially thought it would be. (Warrior POV, obviously...)
Interestingly, the trinket procs on attack, meaning that it *could* proc during periods where you're not taking damage.
One *could* also use a such situaion to not do damage, and then try timing the proc to occur approximately when wanted (say you're not hitting a boss while offtanking, internal cd runs out and it procs within moments of you tauning). As a 10 man tank, I find this scenario unlikely, the raid frankly needs my dmg.
What's more interesting to me is how this matches up against the other stamina trinket, with the absorbsion shield (there is a thread below this one), as I sincerely doubt I will ever be able to cap ctc with 2 stamina trinkets.

Answer is probably gonna end up being "it depends on the fight" again though... :)

kopcap
12-17-2011, 02:38 PM
Trinket is atrocious, I'd use Scales over it any day.

Bodasafa
12-18-2011, 09:51 AM
Indomitable Pride is the way to go for a stam trinket. You can see my conclusions in the thread about that trinket. The proc mastery is nice for 60% blocks, but everyone should be aiming for passive CTC cap at this gear level, so relying on it to get CTC cap is a poor choice. Don't get me wrong depending on what trinket options you have available this could be the way to go till you get something else, but given the choice others are much better.

Basically I'm seeing that Idom Pride, Fire of the Deep, and Mirror are the only trinkets I will need. Swapping Fire for Mirror when a resist would prove better than and on use dodge.

aresius
12-19-2011, 11:00 AM
Are you forgeting or purpousfully leaving out the one from spine? Imho the 900 dodge (~3.5%) beats all.

Pagezero
12-19-2011, 12:51 PM
I think the problem is it only has slightly more CTC than a mastery trinket and has no use/proc. Another problem many of the big hits in fights you can't dodge, but I do agree it is ton of dodge.

Selendis
12-20-2011, 12:19 AM
for me, it's actually less ctc than the trinket from heroic beth (warrior PoV). (spine trinket)
Unless I fucked up my excel again....

To stay on topic, it's not terrible, but I'd go with Indomidable Pride if we're looking at stam trinkets.

swelt
12-20-2011, 02:48 AM
I think one topic covering all the trinket choices is probably better than separate topics on each. By their very nature, you are always looking to 'pick 2', and also 'pick 2 that best suit this encounter'.

Given the nature of the encounters, stamina is often desirable and trinkets are a handy way to get it. Of the two stamina trinkets on offer, Indomitable Pride seems much better suited to warriors/paladins than Soulshifter Vortex. Indeed, I don't particularly like random proc survival, I much prefer the 'smart proc' or 'on use' variants. I can just about manage full CTC with 1 stamina trinket, not quite 1 stamina trinket + soul drinker yet. On some fights though, I'm preferring to run slightly below full CTC for the extra stam. In those situations, Soulshifter looks OK (especially if like me your next best stamina trinket is T11 Heroic).

I'm wearing it on my DK though, where I am ok with mastery fluctuating and less worried about particular stat caps. However I'm seriously tempted by the spine trinket for the DK - the raw avoidance is great in combination with bone shield, and the fact it's dodge works well with my imbalanced DRs.

So far, I've prioritized other gear upgrades over the VP trinket, but I think that'll be my next purchase. From what I've seen, dodge on use seems more applicable than resistance. Am I missing some good resistible damage?

Fetzie
12-20-2011, 02:58 AM
Are you forgeting or purpousfully leaving out the one from spine? Imho the 900 dodge (~3.5%) beats all.

If you only consider total damage reduction to be the metric to measure your survivability against. When you are block capped, stamina is much better than avoidance, as is means you can survive those critical moments when you are unlucky (with 30% avoid chance this will happen more often than you think) and do not dodge or parry swings for 6-8 seconds. Essentially when you are block capped, gearing moves more towards the maximum EH design we had in ICC. Thus while the dodge trinket will, in the long run, reduce your damage taken; in the short-term - which means between now and your next death in a raid - Increasing your maximum health while retaining block cap will make you much less likely to die, because the boss takes longer to reduce your health to zero.

Bodasafa
12-20-2011, 04:27 AM
Are you forgeting or purpousfully leaving out the one from spine? Imho the 900 dodge (~3.5%) beats all.

The dodge on use from the Fire of the Deep provides far more than 3.5% on a 1:30 CD it has 2,290 dodge rating. I forget but IIRC after diminishing returns I think rating buster in game was showing like a 8%+ dodge increase.

I would take that over a stacking proc any day.

Bigbad
12-20-2011, 05:54 AM
I was considering using this one on Zon'ozz since there is high tankdamage without much breaks. Other fights all have tankswaps or breaks that would make indomitable pride better.

aresius
12-20-2011, 01:24 PM
A bit off topic, but i was surprised that the "resolve of the undying" (http://www.wowhead.com/item=77201) didint have a big fanbase. Ive alweys been one to like a nice stamina buffer to soak up damage spikes and have been vocal about it.
Still, when i got the normal mode version of the resolve a couple of weeks ago i tried pairing it up along with a stamina trinket (replacing the mastery one off beth) and reforged lots of dodge to parry to keep my avoidances close when i have the procs.
I hardly see it as a proc trinket, more as a static 880 dodge, since it takes like 3 gcds to get to max stacks and will remain up as long as i melee something every 10 seconds (cant recall any fight i have a hard time doing that). The amount of dodge was large enough to remain at ctc while droping my mastery trinket(i think i had to do a couple of reforges too, but nothing big), so the feel im getting is im trading off mastery for dodge in CTC coverage.
Im having a hard time figuring out why everyone looking at this trinket and think "meh".
Like, having a little bubble from beths trinekt is nice, or the dodge on use from the new VP trinket, but those are mastery trinkets and their procs/on uses can save your life, but also can be meaningless.
If you had a trinket that gave the same amount of CTC in avoidance, but without any fancy proc or on use, wouldent you take it just to reduce average damage income?
@Fetzie - I do understand the EH/worse case scenario model, but i dont view that i am dropping any stam for this trinket. If i subbed it for a stam one id be below CTC. Even if i had good enough gear to be at CTC with 2 stam trinkets, id surely have to have a heavy mastery gem set to pull that off. With this dodge trinket im going to be able to swap my gems for more stamina as i get new drops.
The only downside i see is that for 10 seconds at the start of the fight im 3% below CTC. What am i missing?

Fetzie
12-20-2011, 01:27 PM
If I needed the trinket to get my CTC completed, then I would use it over a mastery trinket. But if I was already at full CTC and had the choice between this trinket and a stamina trinket, I would prefer a stamina trinket.

Of course there is the problem that the "few seconds" it takes to stack up are long enough for a boss to get two unblocked swings in, which is when things get dangerous.

Tengenstein
12-21-2011, 03:20 AM
I gain 0.04% ctc when that thing is fully stacked versus normal Spidersilk spindle. I'm more than happy to trade that small CTC gain for a 17k absorb when i'm low.

Fetzie
12-21-2011, 03:34 AM
I gain 0.04% ctc when that thing is fully stacked versus normal Spidersilk spindle. I'm more than happy to trade that small CTC gain for a 17k absorb when i'm low.

But until it is fully stacked you have less CTC from it that the normal spindle.

Bodasafa
12-21-2011, 10:32 AM
There is no justification for using the Spine Dodge Trinket unless you do not have access to other options. Its not a horrible trinket, its just inferior to other options. Being CTC capped and using Fire of the Deep, Indom Pride, Spindle, or Mirror are all better options.

Takethecake
12-21-2011, 10:46 AM
In almost every fight, the few seconds without it fully stacked will be on the pull. You can pretty much look at the trinket as a static dodge trinket.

That being said I'll probably pick the trinket up and try it out from time to time. If your at full ctc and swapping mastery for dodge, that should be a fairly nice survival boost.