View Full Version : Madness of Deathwing discussion
12-09-2011, 09:42 AM
We got a few attempts in last night and played slightly with Aspect order trying Ysera>Nozdormu>Alexstrasza>Kalecgos as well as Ysera>Alexstrasza>Nozdormu>Kalecgos and found our biggest problem being handling Elementium Bolt after Nozdormu's platform. Its a crapton of initial damage. Is it advisable to have the tanks leave the tentacle and run to the furthest point with the rest of the raid to minimize damage? Our 2 healers are actually at greatest risk since they have to stay in range to top off tanks for Impale and are not able to out range the bolt damage, they tell me.
Also, eff the Crush damage from the tentacles. We were expecting the cone to target tanks, that's a lot of extra damage on the melee.
10 man raid, by the way
12-09-2011, 11:11 AM
Apparently, for 10man you're better off with Ysera-Alextrasza-Kalecgos-Nozdormu. At least that's what some 10man raids in my guild did.
Regarding the elementium bolt, if you have rogues, they can cloak it off every time, and then feint the followup damage which helps a lot on the healing requirements. Mages can Iceblock, but only once per 4 minutes. Paladins can Divine Shield once per 5 minutes. Death Knights can AMS every time. Druids can barkskin every time. Spriests can diffusion. Warlocks can Netherward if they're destruction every time. Shaman can Shamanistic Rage every time if Enhance. Hunters can deterrence every time.
So really, many of the classes have a damage reduction or complete damage avoidance cooldown available for every single elementium bolt. I think as a rogue, I take a total of about 10k damage from the bolt before it dies, and I can do that every single time. Plus with cloak I can stay on the Corruption longer, reducing dps requirements.
So I wonder why you'd kill Nozdormu last.
12-09-2011, 11:31 AM
Not like 20% Haste buff is bad for both your Healers AND your DPS, but I guess you do have a point. In any case, the pulsing AoE damage does hurt like crap, and if the Elementium Bolt lands near an Impale things can get hairy. I just think it's safer play if you got the DPS to do it without Kalecgos.
That's probably true, if you have the dps to do that. My raid doesn't, at least not on 25 man. The 20% haste is nice, but not all your dps can take advantage of it unless you're all ranged, and the 20% damage buff ends up being a huge difference. If your dps are on the ball (and I do mean on the ball, not high dps. My 2 sinister strikes aren't more skillful than anyone else's), the elementium bolt should die in less than 3 seconds after it lands. I usually get off a feint and maybe 2 sinister strikes before it's gone.
12-09-2011, 11:50 AM
The order appears to be different from 10man to 25man, and Kalecgos does look like its necessary on 25man. Both our 25man raids did it with Kalecgos as the last aspects. If I recall correctly, the AoE on Regenerative Bloods gets obnoxious without Kalecgos on 25man.
Yeah, if you don't have Kalecgos on 25, you basically can't AoE them down, and single target takes too long, so you die to Cataclysm.
12-09-2011, 01:45 PM
It is possible to AOE them down, but it takes really concerted timed burst of AOE, starting as their health bars reset. Not saying it easy or the best way (we didn't get the kill last week because we were struggling in doing just that) but we did manage it a few times.
12-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Interesting idea, I'll suggest doing Nozdormu last and see if that helps us out any. Our DPS is strong, the only thing that seemed to be giving us trouble during the fight with every change we made was the Elementium Bolt after Nozdormu was removed.
12-10-2011, 04:11 AM
We did red > green > yellow > blue. The bolt shouldn't be a problem if everyone runs to the front of the platform (where the arm tentacle is). You want to be as far from the bolt as possible. Raiders should use personal mitigation CDs at this point. As a DK tank on the mutated corruption, I just AMS through it if my add isn't down. Our holy priest prepares for the blast by positioning herself as far as possible from me while still being in range for heals and to case GS if we get a second impale.
We tried doing yellow last, but not having the damage buff and spellweave really sucked. Getting the adds down fast becomes painful, increasing the pressure on your healers.
12-13-2011, 06:44 AM
We did green, blue, red, yellow. There might be a better way but this is what worked for us. Once blue is done, we found out if we don't AOE down the regenerative blood pack before any of them get to full health, we won't have enough time to burn the arm/wing tentacle. We used bloodlust on the yellow platform when cataclysm had 40 seconds left on its cast, and we ignored the last set of burning tentacles.
This caused us to beat the entire encounter 3 seconds before enrage. If we'd done blue last, this probably wouldn't have been a problem.
We did Green > Bronze > Red > Blue - fairly standard. But we ran with one tank, two healers and seven DPS. We were pushing as hard as we could to kill the tentacles before the bolt spawned - could just about get there on one with cooldowns but the final one we were only able to get it down to about 10% before the bolt spawned.
We found that having the melee and tank run right to the end of the ledge, behind the Wing Tentacle helped a lot with the damage. Fury Warrior popped Rallying Cry and Shield Wall and I popped Divine Protection - sum total of around 2% health drop. The ranged ran but stayed at max range and were therefore able to kill the bolt before it cast its first post-landing tick. Once it was down the tank charged back to the tentacle and melee just moved onto killing the Wing Tentacle.
I think the tentacles can Impale the Aspects if there's nobody in range but we were either lucky with the timer or the Aspect can eat one without it causing a problem.
Phase 2 with one tank is a different story - plan is to keep the adds in the swirly thing for the attack speed debuff and pray, heh. In the setup we had tonight, we had two Hand of Sacrifice, one Pain Surpression, plus usual Prot Warrior cooldowns and Dream.
Annoyingly we ran out of time before we could get a kill - few more attempts and we'd have had it. But we'll get it next week I'm sure.
Slight subject change, but quick question - does anyone know which parts (if any) of the encounter can Parry? Since our tactic is pretty do-or-die with regard to burning the tentacles before the bolt spawns, I'm considering reforging out of Expertise for the fight if nothing Parries - especially when we get to the Heroic version. I'll try and check some logs in a bit but if anyone does happen to know that'd be great :)
12-14-2011, 04:06 AM
We did Green > Bronze > Red > Blue - fairly standard. But we ran with one tank, two healers and seven DPS. We were pushing as hard as we could to kill the tentacles before the bolt spawned - could just about get there on one with cooldowns but the final one we were only able to get it down to about 10% before the bolt spawned.We (10-man raid) did it in this order, with the same setup (7 DPS): Ysera --> Nozdormu --> Kalecgos --> Alexstrasza
On the 2nd and thrid platform, we donīt DPS the Limb Tentacle until after the the Mutated Corruption has died. This keeps raid-damage very low and the healers even regenerate mana at the start of the 2nd and 3rd platform. Since every platform takes more than two minutes, DPS cooldowns should be up for every single Mutated Corruption and they should all die before the second impale. This means that you have some time to run behind his Limb Tentacle and minimize raid damage from the Elementium Bolt, which basically makes it a non-issue. When Kalecgos is dead, we use Heroism/Timewarp in order to make up for Kalecgos missing debuff and kill the Mutated Corruption on the last platform without a second impale.
That way, our first kill "only" took ~12:30 minutes, if I remember correctly.
12-14-2011, 04:20 AM
Judging by world of logs, the bloods, terrors and (wierdly?) the blistering tentacles can parry. Lumps of Deathwing (including his chin) and the Mutated Corruption (big tentacle) cannot. Indeed, it doesn't look like they can dodge either. Somehow the elementium bolt can dodge. So switching out expertise for other DPS stats might be an overall DPS increase. If someone wants to confirm my reading, I'm making this judgement by looking at the various NPCs in the 'creatures' drop down of a kill log and looking at the melee row in the damage taken. There is no Dodge or Parry column for Arm/Wing or Deathwing, even though tanks with low expertise were attacking them.
12-14-2011, 07:40 AM
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