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View Full Version : Morchok Heroic tips & tricks



Garbid
12-08-2011, 06:43 AM
No other thread about this so though I'd start 1 for those who wanna try. If you haven't you probably won't till next reset, in which case there will probably be some guides out there. Anyways I'm gonna lay down our strategy and I'll happily accept feedback on how to improve.

We are still progressing here but have found a tactic we are happy with, just execution and healing/dps output needing on our behalf. We raid 25 man btw.

Split the raid in two, so it's more like 2 separate raids.
Boss's stomp hits 2 people for double dmg, tank + another. We've found best to use a rogue with feint. If you don't have rogues, make sure you've got high hp character soaking this and a resto shaman healing him, keeping up riptide on him 100% to give him some extra hp! (or alternatively rotate people with cooldowns, iceblock, bubble, sac, dispersion etc etc.)
Assuming 3 healers, 1 tank, 1 stomp soaker in each grp, that leaves you with 8 other dps. If healers in your raid are un-evenly skilled/geared, or only 1 restoshaman, you may wanna bring 7 healers and have the resto shaman be where there are only 3 healers (his extra hp buff on this fight is amazing).

Tanks need to be careful on moving him, don't move out of range while he's doing stomp. Time your movement so you and your soaker can stand your ground on the stomp, then move to crystal in between. All the grp should be soaking the stomp to reduce spike dmg. Rest of dps should move fast to crystal to soak it.
As a tank, have some form of cooldown on each stomp, makes healers life sooooo much easier and they can focus on topping off other soakers.

Fatal mistakse we've made:
Dps moving ahead of grp to crystal, didn't soak the stomp, other crystal soakers weren't topped up enough to survive the crystal.
Healers getting left behind while moving boss, got out of stomp range resulting in dead soakers.
Morchok does stomp and crystal first, offtank kept the twin too close and Morchok's dps got stomped twice as the crystal spawned to close to the twin.
There are probably more I just can't remember right now... selective memory you see :D



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FuT3BSqstc

Morghax
12-09-2011, 02:08 AM
Hand of Protection on low HP people (or the soaker when not topped off) is a godsend - does not make others take more damage; just the HoPped person be immune to a stomp

Garbid
12-09-2011, 02:28 AM
Yeah, we did that too :) 5 soakers in a grp together for Prayer heals, and soakers in other groups got bop or were classes with iceblock and mechanics that could negate the dmg with a druid or pala watching over them.

klausi
12-09-2011, 07:48 AM
Secondary stomp soaker: it's physical damage so bringing a plate wearer over a "high hp class", likely with a shield (= holy paladin, because all non tanking classes should have a similar amount of hitpoints of 150k ish)... unless you got a rogue.

Why do you need/want a cooldown for every stomp on 25m? Does it kills you right away? On 10m it's only 100k damage (that +100% damage taken debuff fades before a new stomp occurs every time) and his regulary hits on block tanks are fairly doable (35kish).

ananoon
12-09-2011, 08:18 AM
Druids going into bear form helps too. Our boomkin gets 60% more armor in bear form if I remember correctly.

Garbid
12-09-2011, 06:16 PM
Melee attacks from Morchok shortly after stomp hit for 100k and the stomp for 160k on a 390 ilvl tank.

Vaengence
12-11-2011, 08:41 PM
On heroic 25 man, neither Morchok nor Kohcrom stomp for significant amounts of damage. I am not sure if it is bugged, or if intended by the journal is not up to date, however you do not need to double soak crystals and stomps.

If you take Morchok right (looking at temple) and Kohcrom left, Morchok will always spawn crystals away from the temple while Kohcrom spawns towards the temple.

Three people are all that is needed minimum to soak on 25 man heroic - Tank, the double soaker and a third. This means that you can assign 7 people to always be ranged for crystal - in our case, 4 dps and 3 healers on one side and 5 dps and 2 healers on the other. These people can get into almost the exact position of the crystal as it is predetermined, and the handfull of melee along with the tank and soaker will be more than enough for stomp.

This allows each side to only have a group hit by crystal + a group hit by stomp with no overlap meaning half the healing required and virtually no movement - it turns it into very close to a tank and spank.

Our guild killed it this way this week and will have a video up tomorrow so you can see it if interested, though note that it is possible stomp is not working correctly and if it gets fixedd this strat will go out the window.

leethaxor
12-11-2011, 10:52 PM
4 healers 2 tanks 4 dps. We dragged the two morchok's about 40 yards apart and just had at them. 2 healing 2 dps 1 tanking each mini-morchok.

The only real trick I have to offer is to build a good ignite before the split and cleave a combustion on to both of them for the short time they are in range. I guess the same goes for other DoT classes.

Outbackjack
12-12-2011, 09:33 AM
Seeing 4 healers needed on 10 man when we've been 2 healing everything does not make me happy. Now we need to pull 2 extra healers out of our arses for one fight? I thought we got rid of these wacky raid requirements back in Burning Crusade -.-;

leethaxor
12-12-2011, 11:11 AM
Seeing 4 healers needed on 10 man when we've been 2 healing everything does not make me happy. Now we need to pull 2 extra healers out of our arses for one fight? I thought we got rid of these wacky raid requirements back in Burning Crusade -.-;

We have successfully 2 healed it on the PTR. But for our first kill we decided to not risk it. My guilds a bit more conservative when it comes to wipes and such. If we can 4 heal an encounter why not? It allows us a massive margin of error. And in retro spec our healers agreed that 2 healing would have easily worked. Any good AoE healer should be able to keep up.

The damage going out in each 'group' is low, just at times it spikes pretty high but a thoughtput cooldown would easily compensate according to our holy pally. When our logs show each healer only doing like 7k hps on a heroic fight, it seems clear that 2 healing would work. But then why not force our legendary weilding ele shaman go resto with a dragonwrath on his back XD.

That's how we squeezed our 4 healers we made our ele sham, and shadow priest go holy/resto. Then change back for the next fight. Keeping 4 healers on staff for a full tier is hard, and there are plenty of fights that need to be 3 healed Hagara, Zon'ozz, Yor'sahj is 2, ultraxion can be 3 if each dps can do 40k+.

Setsa
12-19-2011, 08:58 PM
Here is our strategy/Kill video -

http://youtu.be/yxRX2whwVkw
Thanks,

Anteoch
01-04-2012, 08:59 AM
I could really use some help on H Morchok here. I've watched several vids, including the one above, & am doing what they do, in regards to tanking, but peeps are still dying to Stomp. What I do is when a Crystal spawns, I move ASAP & park the boss ~5-10 yrds away from it, the 3 ranged hugs Crystal, & me & my fellow mDPS soak the double-dmg Stomp. Despite this, peeps are still dying mostly to Stomp dmg. We figure it's a positional thing, maybe with our ranged, but seeing as we position just like they do in the vids, I'm at a loss.

Here's a WoL from our latest raid. I was absent from it due to really bad DC'ing & was replaced, but hopefully you guys can look through it & see where we're going wrong. Thanks in advance! :)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9t1vb4uu3xxxrlgj/dashboard/?enc=wipes&boss=55265

zuke8675309
01-04-2012, 09:39 AM
My guild got our first H:Morchok kill last night and the length of the fight was 6:46 while 4 healing. I say this because from your log it seems you had 3 attempts that could have been kills. From my perspective it seems your problem can be summed up in one word: cooldowns.

Your prot pally never used Guardian of Ancient Kings on any of the 3 longer attempts and it seems he didn't use Divine Guardian on the first of the 3 (try 5) but he did on the last 2.
Your holy paladin could have ran Devo and used Aura Mastery.
Your Frost DK never used Icebound Fortitude.
Hunter didn't use Deterrence.
I don't think your resto shaman used Stoneclaw totem.
You get the idea.

It seems that you have the fight learned because you survived 6+ minutes on 3 attempts but you don't have a cooldown plan. Once Morchok/Korchump hit 20% have some kind of plan for chaining raid & personal cooldowns. Ie, after 20% first stomp Divine Guardian, 2nd Spirit Link, 3rd Barrier, 4th personal cds, 5th tranquility, etc. Of course, plan according to how your groups are split up. Tanks need to save big cooldowns to be able to chain them at that point as well. Prot pally for example should be able to go DP/HS > GoAK > AD for 30ish seconds of cooldowns. Plus, each paladin can Hand of Protection someone so they take no damage from a stomp and they can bubble themselves to take no dmg from a stomp (prot just has to click it off immediately to regain threat).

leethaxor
01-04-2012, 12:39 PM
As a mage if you have impact up you can get full DoT's on both 'morchoks' right from the off, including combustion which is an amazing dps buff.

swelt
01-04-2012, 04:08 PM
Has anyone got any good tips for the pull -> first crystal period? So many of our attempts have been screwed up by the first crystal spawning in a position that's over on Kochrom's side but that ought to be soaked by Morchok team. Before our holiday downtime, we seemed to be having some success pulling over to the right hand side, but didn't seem to work as well yesterday. Is there something about the facing of the boss that can be used to influence the crystal spawns?

klausi
01-04-2012, 06:07 PM
a) it doesn't matter who got the beams from the crystal just make sure you've 3 people soaking it, the nearest ones count for it
b) if you really struggle with the first crystal there's a rather simple solution: just wait for the first crystal spawn before pushing him. That's what we did for our firstkill, now everyone is just overeager to rank and don't want to waste their prepot etc :)

Fetzie
01-04-2012, 06:47 PM
We just burn him to 90% and the team closest to the first crystal takes it.

Outbackjack
01-06-2012, 11:35 AM
Curious situation we found ourselves in with Stomp, our hunter (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/arygos/Hanners/advanced) is taking more Stomp damage (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vc1qntgc43mfbehl/details/4/) than he has total hit points sometimes. My assumption was that the double damage part of Stomp was directed at the two closest people to Morchok/Kochrom, this is centered on the boss and not the tank, correct?

We have our Rogues taking the extra damage (Kochrom side is Outbackjack(warrior), Hanners (hunter), Ayva (shaman), Jeskah (rogue), Moodar (druid)) and I'm fairly confident that Jeskah is staying right up Kochrom's butt and Hanners is not closer than I am. Am I missing something obvious here?

Ion
01-06-2012, 02:10 PM
Wow...that's a crazy looking log

I think you might be tanking them too closely together...or something else super weird.

There was a stomp on your first wipe (the last one, that killed the shaman and hunter) that hit for a total of 2m post-mitigation damage...granted they had the debuff, but that's a LOT of damage...more than I'd have expected by far.

Pagezero
01-08-2012, 11:19 AM
I almost seems to be it is the tank and the closest person to the tank that takes double damage, it could be a movement issue that the server has the boss moving or something. Also a couple weeks back there was a hot fix for more than two people taking double damage.

We ry to minimize movement and have the tank and the soaker stand inside the bosses hit box. For us a holly pally is the soaker and he's solo healing the side which makes it very hard for him if we move, the three crystal soakers need to say within 25 yards for the stomp and then move out to the crystal, their dps is probably lower because they are moving a lot but dps is a not an issue for this fight.

swelt
01-10-2012, 02:06 PM
almost seems to be it is the tank and the closest person to the tank that takes double damage
In latest PTR build, the tooltip of the ability now says exactly that... so I wonder if that is how it always worked.

Outbackjack
01-10-2012, 05:14 PM
In latest PTR build, the tooltip of the ability now says exactly that... so I wonder if that is how it always worked.

If thats the case then all of those ridiculous wipes on Heroic Morchok that night would make SOOO much more sense.

Troxje
01-11-2012, 12:19 AM
That is indeed the way it works on live. Our holy pally was soaking and standing in front of the ranged dps not stacked on the tank and he still soaked :)

Vittorio
01-18-2012, 11:45 AM
We tank Heroic Morchok ten man with two healers on each side. We use a DK tank for the side Korchok (or whatever his name is) is on, and a Warrior tank on the side Morchok is on. Left side, respectively facing the boss as you start the encounter before the split is the easier side, as he doesn't spawn crystals as fast, so there is less moving around. You generall want more ranged than melee to split for the crystals. We use a rogue on one side and a DK who pops into blood presence for double stomp/Paladin for the harder side. We have the side tanking Morchok take the first crystal spawn, and have the other side drag Korchok away quickly to get into position before his crystals start spawning. Having /range on and setting it to 20yds is safe (25 yards is not an option/28 however is to far) so ranged knows to be in the 25 yard range after stacking on crystals.

Another mechanic that can be used if a DK dps is taking double stomps is channeling AotD after the stomp for the dmg reduction while being healed back up.
Also, the DK tank has the 4 piece Vampiric Blood raid heal boost/health boost used for after double stomps if the DK/Pally is too low on health. If the Warrior tank has the 4 piece he has an armor boost CD for raid/Druids have healing boosts on their 4 pieces as well.
Other than that make sure you have the ability to battle rez on both sides and that heroism is popped simultaneously on both sides when called for (generally after the Earthen Vortex is over right around 20% health left on boss), or it will not reach both sides.

Tengenstein
01-19-2012, 05:49 AM
Stomp appears to ignore armour.

swelt
01-19-2012, 06:15 AM
Stomp appears to ignore armour.

Secondary stomp soaker: it's physical damage so bringing a plate wearer over a "high hp class", likely with a shield (= holy paladin, because all non tanking classes should have a similar amount of hitpoints of 150k ish)... unless you got a rogue.
Only 1 of you can be right! Which is it?

leethaxor
01-19-2012, 06:54 AM
Stomp appears to ignore armour.

since when?

Ion
01-19-2012, 07:55 AM
since when?

Since never. It definitely is affected by armor:

[20:38:19.445] Morchok Stomp <Holy Paladin> 56001 (A: 10858) = Total of 66859
[20:38:19.445] Morchok Stomp <Resto Druid> 77275 (A: 8757) = Total of 86023

and

[20:38:32.705] Morchok Stomp <Elemental Shaman> 67950 (A: 2888) = Total of 70838
[20:38:32.705] Morchok Stomp <Resto Druid> 86032 = Total of 86032
[20:38:32.705] Morchok Stomp <Frost DK> 63355 (A: 12262) = Total of 75617

Clearly the amount of armor you have affects the amount of damage you take (holy paladin has more armor than the ele shaman who has more armor than the frost dk who has more armor than the resto druid).

Kohcrom's stomp might do less damage than Morchok's though...

Fetzie
01-20-2012, 06:52 AM
[20:27:47.656] Kohcrom Stomp resto druid 77665
[20:27:47.656] Kohcrom Stomp ret pala 68239
[20:27:47.656] Kohcrom Stomp prot pala 104397 -- probably had a 20% cooldown up
[20:27:47.656] Kohcrom Stomp moonkin 65861
[20:27:47.656] Kohcrom Stomp dk in blood spec 57629 (A: 22068) -- probably had a cooldown running

moonkin has similar armor to a ret pala, both have more armor than a resto druid.

Tengenstein
02-04-2012, 04:14 PM
It is entirely possible for Morchock to throw his crystal outside the invisible boundries of the raid, thus making impossible to get close enough to neutralise the crystal explosion.

Bastard.

Seraphim209
04-05-2012, 10:59 AM
I actually need some advice/help. My guild is starting on Morchock 10 man heroic. I am a rogue soaker with a bear tank. We had nothing but wipes. My problem is when the stomp would go out I would fient before and still get one shotted. The raid was blameing me for our failures but I was doing everything I was suppost to and ever thing I have read and watched upon doing the fight. Can anyone explain possible reasons to why I died? Even after the feint was active.

Oratory
04-05-2012, 11:32 AM
Using feint will easily let you survive the stomp soak, so possible reasons for your deaths:

- You didn't actually feint (fat-fingered, on cooldown, not enough energy, etc)
- You feinted for Morchok's stomp but you were on Kochrom
- You feinted too late and the spell did not go off in time due to latency
- You somehow pulled aggro and it wasn't stomp that killed you

Do you have a world of logs link to see what actually happened?

Theotherone
04-05-2012, 11:33 AM
I actually need some advice/help. My guild is starting on Morchock 10 man heroic. I am a rogue soaker with a bear tank. We had nothing but wipes. My problem is when the stomp would go out I would fient before and still get one shotted. The raid was blameing me for our failures but I was doing everything I was suppost to and ever thing I have read and watched upon doing the fight. Can anyone explain possible reasons to why I died? Even after the feint was active.

Are the other members of your group running to the crystal too fast? We had the issue early on becuase the three others in the group would bolt to the crystal leaving only the tank and the soaker within 25 yards. You need to coordinate with the tank moving the big lumbering boss with the people moving to the crystals. We now have the tanks tell people when to move incase there's a stomp coming.

Takethecake
04-05-2012, 11:39 AM
Are the other members of your group running to the crystal too fast? We had the issue early on becuase the three others in the group would bolt to the crystal leaving only the tank and the soaker within 25 yards. You need to coordinate with the tank moving the big lumbering boss with the people moving to the crystals. We now have the tanks tell people when to move incase there's a stomp coming.

This would be my vote... the people yelling at you are likely the cause of the problem. Either that or your timing on feint is way off.

Seraphim209
04-05-2012, 06:37 PM
I actually feint right at the half way of the cast bar when he casts stomp should I do it earlier?

Seraphim209
04-05-2012, 06:39 PM
No world of logs actually. I push the fient button about half way from casting stomp.

aresius
04-06-2012, 12:25 AM
This would be my vote... the people yelling at you are likely the cause of the problem. Either that or your timing on feint is way off.
But... If only the rogue and bear were in the stomp (because the raid ran too quickly to the crystal), im quite sure the bear would die as well, not just the rogue.
If only the rogue is dying, its probably something to do with feint, or maybe he has a crystal beam on him as well? (a typical thing i see in normal mode pugs i do with my alt is people ignoring the crystals completely, and this would likely prove fatal in even a nerfec heroic morchok)
Either way it seems a bit odd, our rogue hardly needs to feint since the nerfs came out, he wont die with just a stomp anymore.

Tengenstein
04-06-2012, 02:39 AM
The rRogue probably will die if he and the bear 2 man the stomp, not so sure bout the bear. stomp is 750k damage split by the number of peeps in it, with the tank and his hand holder taking double damage. With just 2 peeps soaking that kinda cancels out. With the 15% nerf we're talking a 637.5k hit. Take 10% off for demo roar is 573.75k, as a Rogue I get maybe 35% damage reduction from armour, thats a 373k hit without Feint. With Feint, assuming you don't have Enveloping Shadows (No PVE rogue should) thats 186.5k hit. The Bear on the other hand eats the same 573.75k hit, but he has 18% dmage reduction in Bear Form taking it down to a 470.27k, and then his armour which I guesstimate is at least 60% damage reduction, which would take it down to a 188k hit. So about the same damage on each. I haven't been watching my healthpool inside DS as a rogue, But i think 186k would prolly be a one shot. As a Bear you would likely survive unless your undergeared for the HC. I think you have 190k in 378 gear fully buffed...maybe not, I don't know, I don't play bears at end game.

I think Theotherone has it sussed, you want 5 people soaking each stomp.and i don't think you have that. We had alot of problems with our OT and the stomps/crystal timing. the easiest way i had of explaining it to him was, everyone run at the crystals as soon as their thrown out. Your 3 crystal soakers should be hugging the crystal, the tank should be a few yards away, prefferaby facing the crystal with he boss in between, the other crystal soaker should be closest to the tank andd be so close to the bosses but you could kiss the tank through his legs. as long as everyone's moving its fine, if peeps are just standing their Deepsing then your screwed either way.