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View Full Version : How are you handling tentacle's impale (madness of Deathwing)?



marconds
12-06-2011, 03:42 AM
I'm having a hard time tanking it, even with shield wall, shield block and trinket up i take around 80% hp dmg, and I`m wondering how are other warriors dealing with it.

My fellow DK tank take like 20% hp dmg from it and sometimes zero dmg with icebound fortitude and I heard pallys just use Ardent Defender.

Here's my armory, just in case.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/gurubashi/Marconds/advanced

Destruyen
12-06-2011, 04:32 AM
use a stam trinket for that fight then. i have no problems as a bear using survival instincts or getting a hand of sac from a paladin to live through it, same with my prot warr co-tank....

Raysere
12-06-2011, 04:52 AM
You're probably overestimating how much damage you take. Impale is a complete non-issue beyond having a major DR cooldown for each cast, the other tank damage is pathetic so provided you survive it's not a real burden on healers. Our tanks simply used the Dream button, their own major DR or called out for Pain Suppression.

klausi
12-06-2011, 04:59 AM
1) have your other tank taunt during the cast so you won't die from a melee hit right afterwards
2) Shield block won't help, Mirror neither. You should eat the first impale, the second one (comes along with the meteor) is harder to deal with.
3) It's 400k physical damage that can't be mitigated via armor - only via cooldowns. Use stam flask, 1 stam trinkets ( list = http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.-4?filter=minle=346;cr=22;crs=1;crv=0#0-2+1 ) + Stay of Execution should be up every time you need it. If you're raiding with a paladin they can help you out with sacrifice, disc/holy with painsup/guardian angel.

Ps: reforge your gear properly, 51.12% block is just awfully low!
helmet - you're using the wrong enchant
shoulder - dodge to mastery
chest - dodge to mastery
finger1 - dodge to mastery
necklace - ??? exp to dodge
ranged - parry to dodge
either get tanking cloak from 5 mans or use that Rhyolith cloak listed in your Activity feed
get tanking helmet from 5 mans, it's way better itemised than your current one
buy vp belt next id
buy vp shoes next id (boe!)


You're probably overestimating how much damage you take. Impale is a complete non-issue beyond having a major DR cooldown for each cast, the other tank damage is pathetic so provided you survive it's not a real burden on healers. Our tanks simply used the Dream button, their own major DR or called out for Pain Suppression.
Dream button isn't present on all four platforms and shield wall reduces the incoming damage by only 40%. If you don't have a resto shaman (+18-25kish hitpoints buff) or a disc priest (shielding you during the cast for a 40kish buffer) running around with 200k hitpoints might not be enough.

Aggathon
12-06-2011, 05:47 AM
On our kill in 25s our tanks couldn't survive it without a cooldown, so you just always have to make sure you're taunting so you don't eat an impale with the debuff. Just shield wall every one and have your OT taunt immediately afterwards. The only other way is to kill the mutated corruption so fast you don't need 2 tanks, but that's a really tough DPS check.

Grombrindal
12-06-2011, 08:21 AM
On our 25m attempts I didn't seem to have many issues taking the impale except in a few cases where the meteor hit and I took the impale shortly thereafter... When we had too many dc we switched to 10m and it seemed I had more issues taking it. We also switched the order up so we didn't have Alex (+health buff) as we were killing her 2nd... I had one attempt where even though I had shield wall + stoneform (total 50% redux) I ended up dieing... fairly sure I wasn't topped off, but still annoying... especially considering my dk co-tank could just build up a nice big blood shield and have no issues whatsoever taking it....

I would recommend warrior tanks not to strive for ctc on this fight, more health is better, at least for now. The only true tank threats (impale and the terrors in p2) are far more magic damage than anything, and the big physical threat (impale) cannot be blocked.... really blocking every hit is not critical for this fight (imo).

Anyway, this is my experience, I would also like to see more feedback from others on it....

Grom

Esarael
12-06-2011, 11:57 AM
We were also trying a one tank strategy on the 10man version of this encounter and the second Impale was downright obnoxious to deal with; our tank was also a Warrior. We are considering using one tank and two healers, which should give us enough DPS to burst the Corrupted Mutations before a second Impale; or using another tank and just having them swap after an Impale.

I admit that there is some value in having Warriors gear for Stamina for this particular fight, but the second Impale still appears to be a long shot - that's 800k Physical damage. Even with some bizarre cooldown stacking it still feels like your tank is going to die in a hit, unless you're leaving Alextrasza or Ysera for last, in which case you're gimping your raid DPS and leaving your tank vulnerable to a bad Elementium Bolt.

Esarael
12-06-2011, 12:59 PM
We don't have the luxury of doing so, but I reckon a Protection Paladin and a Holy Priest could alternate Ardent Defender and Guardian Spirit for the second Impale pretty much trivializing that portion of the fight.

klausi
12-06-2011, 04:33 PM
For (prot) paladins:
You can bubble the meteor impact and the impale will still be casted on you. You can safely ignore the meteor damage this way if it's your last plateau before phase 2.

Regards 1 tanking or dual healing it:
Might depend on the platforms of choice but the last phase can be very healing intensive with only one tank and those adds with the stacking dot. You'll need several classes capable of taunting to help out (hunters don't work) or he'll die to 4+ stacks almost instantly. Pushing only one impale should be totally possible, we regulary have them around 15-25ish percent when the meteor/2nd impale arives with 2 tanks 3 healers and don't force it to hard, we could squeeze out a lot of additional rdps with proper positioning before the tentacle spawns.

Rowdy
12-07-2011, 04:03 AM
We are considering using one tank and two healers, which should give us enough DPS to burst the Corrupted Mutations before a second Impale;Try it, worked for us :)

Daosis
12-07-2011, 05:48 AM
For a prot paladin doing Noz -> Ysera -> Alex -> Kalec

First platform:
1) Shieldwall
2) Ardent Defender

Second platform:
1) Divine Protection + Dream (still have Ysera up at this point)
2) Hand of Protection

Third platform:
1) Shieldwall
2) Divine Shield

Fourth platform:
1) Ardent Defender (could potentially use DP + healer CD here as well, but we had druids/shamans healing)
2) Hand of Protection

Bubble is ready again for the last phase should you need it to survive solo-tanking the 2 big adds. (Tetanus hurts!)

swelt
12-08-2011, 04:05 AM
Order of aspects is important here, right? What order is the OP using? I feel like there ought to be a discussion somewhere on this forum about the relative pro's and con's of the orders...

We were going with ysera -> nozdormu -> kalecgos -> alextraza. Had no issues in our 25 man attempts as a warrior using shield wall for impale. We had rallying cry and various other raid cooldowns up as well for those impales that coincided with an elementium bolt impact. I picked up safeguard to give us extra options but didn't often need it.

Pruke
12-08-2011, 08:45 PM
How are you handling the bolt when its not slowed. Seems we are having issues there, even though the ranged run near the tentacle spawn point to get as far away as possible. Using a raid CD as well, we live but seems the dot kills 3-4 people almost instantly. 10 man, 2 tanks, green, yellow, red, blue is our order.

Deathlulz
12-08-2011, 10:25 PM
would it be possible to have one tank be a melee soaker while a dk offtank stacks a blood sheild for the impales? The decideing factor would be if you could stack up a 230k(400k is the total dmg i take from just the impale, 30k diffrence for the immediate melee you take just after ) blood sheild in the 20 sec window you have from the first to second impale.

ananoon
12-10-2011, 07:53 PM
would it be possible to have one tank be a melee soaker while a dk offtank stacks a blood sheild for the impales? The decideing factor would be if you could stack up a 230k(400k is the total dmg i take from just the impale, 30k diffrence for the immediate melee you take just after ) blood sheild in the 20 sec window you have from the first to second impale.

I tried this. I was able to stack 200k+ blood shields in some instances, but if you're unlucky and you get targeted by the mutated corruption for a random hit (as he tends to do), it can wipe most of your shield right before the impale.

We ended up one tanking it with me tanking it as blood. I use DRW to try to minimize melee hits, allowing me to stack a bigger blood shield for the first hit. The shield plus a hand of sac from our holy paly is enough to mitigate most of the damage. I pop VB right before the hit and follow with a rune tap and a quick death strike or two right after the hit to top myself off.

The second impale is the really dangerous one if you're one tanking, because the impale debuff increases damage from impale by 100%. For this one, we had our priest go holy and glyph Guardian Spirit to make sure it's available on each platform. If we don't DPS down the tentacle before the second impale, I just eat it with GS and follow with the same VB+rune tap+DS trick. I even don't pop dream if it's up until after I take the hit, to make sure GS is used and I'm back to 50% health first.

Our DPS is good enough now that we usually don't see a second impale, but on the last one we don't have the haste buff from yellow, so it still tends to give us a second one right after the elementium bolt. It's not a problem to handle though if you just use the CDs available to you in your comp properly.

Lohk
12-10-2011, 11:52 PM
For a prot paladin doing Noz -> Ysera -> Alex -> Kalec

First platform:
1) Shieldwall
2) Ardent Defender


If you have Ysera up for the first two platforms, why bother using a personal CD at all for first platform?

kip
12-14-2011, 01:33 AM
We tried the one tank strat last monday. Our problem: Sometimes the tentacle just one shotted me. According to the combatlog, it critted(!!!) me. That wiped us severals times. Sadly I forgot to /combatlog this raid. After some wipes I switched talents, switched to unholy and frost presence and than switched back to tank specc and blood presence .. I can't tell if that fixed the problem with crits because I did this just before our last try this evening ... but the overall experience with tanking these creatures was very strange. Sometimes I almost got no damage, sometimes it almost killes me and well, sometimes it just critted me to death ... very strange.

swelt
12-14-2011, 03:12 AM
People have been reporting the old bug where improved blood presence kinda forgets to work. Flipping your presence before a pull is a good habit to get into. Shouldn't need to respec.

DKs are awesome at tanking impale, it's much harder on a warrior. I have fully absorbed impales when I got lucky, and can comfortably take an impale with just unglyphed VB + Bone shield. Meanwhile on the warrior, while shield wall is up for every other impale, if you don't have the +20% health buff then you probably need some other cooldown as well. It seems a bit unreasonable that blood shield & bone shield work but their equivalents block and the shield block ability don't. Maybe my opinions are skewed by the difference between 10 and 25 man. In both groups, we had the warrior take the first impale and the DK take the second. The second is the one which coincides with the bolt landing (which DKs can just AMS and lol at).

Setsa
12-14-2011, 08:30 AM
We 1 tanked it. In our video guide we explain how we did it using 1 tank and 3 healers.
Check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX7iQdsBks4

Pruke
12-16-2011, 06:36 AM
Setsa, your video helped us get our kill last night. We did green, red, yellow, blue as our order because the unslowed bolt was just tearing us apart. During a break I tabbed out and watched the video and noticed you had everyone stack on the tank and the disc priest use his shield. We were having everyone at the back of the platform near the foot and used the bubble but died to the dot because DPS had to get to the bolt and died. Changing it to using stack on the tank and using a few CD's sealed the deal for us.

Another thing we did was we were at 10% when the 2nd set of terrors spawned and the first time we tried to burn and off-tank. That failed and we wiped at 5% with a minute left on enrage. Next time we just killed them and got the kill. So a piece of advice, if you have time to kill the 2 terrors, do it because tanking them for to long can be nasty.

Anteoch
12-16-2011, 10:44 AM
We're using 3 healers, 1 tank. I'm a Warrior tank. We're using Ysera, Alex, Noz, Kalegos. Problem is the 4th platform Imaple Tentacle. I'm running 1 Stam trink (Vial, lol) & Stay of Execution. 3 healers are Druid, Shaman, Paladin.

Basically wondering on 4th platform how I should order my CD's? Thinking of going with Last Stand/Hand of Sac for first Impale, then on 2nd Imaple use Shield Wall/Stay trinket/Enrage Regen. I notice in that video the raid stacks up IN FRONT of the Impale Tentacle. We also have a DK w/ AMZ.

So...with all that said, thinking of having raid do like vid, stack in front of Tenty when bolt's coming, use AMZ, Slink Totem, maybe Tranq, along with my 3 CD's I mentioned above. Pretty sure all this together will allow me to eat 2nd Impale. Also my raid's a lil iffy about moving in front of Tenty as shown in video, they think they're too close to bolt. Is this really that much of a problem? Methinks with all those CD's we'll be fine.

Pruke
12-16-2011, 12:03 PM
I cant tell you how to 1 tank it but we were as close to the impact point and we used the following: Rallying Cry, Disc Priest bubble, Tranq, rest-shaman aoe thingy, prot-paladin aoe damage reduction and the prot-paladin took the impale at the same time and he hit his shield wall. His life was fine, the raids was fine the impact dropped life 20% ish on the raid. The danger came from the raid getting hit by the dot as it takes 10ish seconds to kill the bolt (at least it did for our attempt, i assume we will get better as it was first kill) and the fact the curruption hit people as they were spreading out twice.

After going through it, CD wise for the bolt impact I think 2 CD's would be fine then as you spread out hit tranq+maybe another CD to deal with dot and corruption impacts.

Sifer
12-16-2011, 12:26 PM
In 25 man we certainly have fun with Hand of Protections. Timed correctly it works wonders. Not sure if a taunt will keep be tentacle on a tank while the tank is immune or if a tank swap or a dps taunting and using a cd would be needed instead since your wanting to 1 tank it in 10 man.

Worth trying a HoP and a taunt tho with a dps on hand should they be needed.

Setsa
12-16-2011, 03:59 PM
We killed it again this week and it was much easier the 2nd time around.

We used 2 cd's for the bolt - Shamans totem cd + rallying. We then just used well timed aoe heals to heal us up. We also lay heavy into that specific tentacle - we save 2 min cd's and pots etc for that one. We are also all waiting as it spawns. This week around we killed it without seeing a 2nd impale and it died at the same time as the bolt hitting.

I'd assume we will soon move to 2 healer 1 tank. With more gear (including 2 healing maces this week) it will make it much more trivial.

www.youtube.com/setsawow

Esarael
12-16-2011, 04:26 PM
How exactly are HoP's used to prevent Impale damage? As soon as the cast begins? Is a taunt from the tank necessary?

I understand tha,t Impale being a targeted cast ability, once its cast time has begun, its target is locked and cannot be changed. Am I correct?

Outbackjack
12-16-2011, 04:33 PM
How exactly are HoP's used to prevent Impale damage? As soon as the cast begins? Is a taunt from the tank necessary?

I understand tha,t Impale being a targeted cast ability, once its cast time has begun, its target is locked and cannot be changed. Am I correct?

Having been the recipient of the HoP its a bit unnerving but it works. The cast finishes on you, but since you're immune to physical damage it does nothing to you and threat is moved to the other tank.

Daosis
12-19-2011, 10:01 AM
How exactly are HoP's used to prevent Impale damage? As soon as the cast begins? Is a taunt from the tank necessary?

I understand that Impale being a targeted cast ability, once its cast time has begun, its target is locked and cannot be changed. Am I correct?

You can use/receive the HoP as soon as the Impale cast begins - it always finishes on the same person regardless of if someone else gains aggro or if the target moves out of range.

Near the end of the cast, you need to taunt to give you 3 seconds of aggro (regardless of immunities) and then remove the HoP right after the impale finishes. A macro will help you here.

For paladins:

#showtooltip
/cancelaura hand of protection
/cast [target=player] hand of protection

For non-paladins:

/cancelaura hand of protection

Durlockozk
01-16-2012, 08:24 PM
10 man strategy: We did Green, Red, Yellow, Blue. 1 tank, 3 healers, 6 dps (one of them being the 2nd tank in a dps offspec)
Green platform you have the green button for the tank. They can use a small personal cooldown to always be able to take the first impale. For the 2nd impale, use Hand of Sacrifice and bubble, Guardian Spirit, and keep Ancestral Fortitude on the tank. If your priest is dicipline use Pain Suppression.
Here is a video of our first kill which was not a clean end. The 2nd week, we killed the boss with everyone alive at the end and did not have to draw out Phase 2. 1 tank method is really nice for the extra dps if you can do it, but do not take this for granted in Phase 2. Burn down the adds in Phase 2 FAST. Chain personal CDs to try and avoid having to battle rezz your tank after the first set of adds. If your tank lives long enough to pick up the 2nd set of adds and you have heroism/lust and healers have raid cooldowns it should be a kill if everyone is alive. We also found that stopping dps at 11% if the 2nd set of adds is very close to spawning made the raid damage far easier to manage, and could be burnt down much easier from there. You do not want to have the boss at like 8 or 9%, have to live through adds and be forced to burn the boss because your tank is down. Its risky, and it involves a lot of very low% wipes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN0wvJ6_Un0

avh
01-17-2012, 07:09 AM
On 10m we use 1 tank and 2 healers, but did our first kill with 3 healers. The spellweave effect does even the dps out so there isn't so huge gain in overall dps unless you happen to have insanely good dps os on the 3rd healer and if survivability is your problem, you don't lose so much dps with bringing the 3rd healer. We do green, red, yellow, blue and with 3 healers we manage to kill the corrupted tentacle with hero/bl just before the unslowed meteor is coming so we barelly make it to the claw/wing tentacle where we use raid CD and right after landing plant 2nd CD near the meteorite to protect melee players running back to kill it (usually almost dead or dead by ranged when melee reach it). With 2 healers we have finished the corrupted tentacle and stacked up at the claw/wing tentacle before DW even casts the bolt and we use CD:s same way we use with 3 healers. If you go with 2 healers, hybrid classes should help with instant heals if they can in the end of 4th platform and in the end of last phase if things get too hard to handle for healers.

Edit: In the last phase we kill first set of shrapnel tentacles and adds and after that we burn DW and use Dream CD and raid/personal CD:s to survive until the end.