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leethaxor
10-28-2011, 09:31 PM
I will update this to keep it up to date with changes from both the PTR and live servers. The strategy that I post is what my guild/group used to kill the boss on PTR or live. If you have a more efficient suggestion please post to let me know.

More an abomination of dark energy than a dragon. Ultraxion has spent his short life absorbing the essence of captured nether dragons. Ultraxion is the only twilight dragon Deathwing has praised, and his arrogance is overshadowed only by the crackling energies surging through his twisted form. Loyal to his master, Ultraxion swears to bring about the fall of Wyrmrest Temple.

Unstable Monstrosity
Growing Twilight instability causes arcs of Twilight energy to erupt form Utraxion's hide. the arcs inflict 300,000/7,000,000 (10/25) Shadow damage every 5 seconds, split evenly among players in the Twilight Realm and within 30 yards of the target. Every minute that Ultraxion remains in combat, reduces the time between arcs by 1 second, to a maximum of 1 per second.
-This instability prevent Ultraxion from parrying attacks (Dodging also in the current build of the PTR [citation needed]).

Twilight Shift
At the beginning of the battle, Ultraxion pulls all enemies with him into the Twilight Realm where they can bear the full brunt of his powerful Twilight assaults. The Twilight Realm grants players the Heroic Will ability.
Heroic Will
The player's Heroic Will strengthens the caster's mind to resist the forces of Twilight. This pulls the caster out of the Twilight realm for up to 5 seconds, but renders them unable to attack, cast spells, or move while concentrating.

Fading Light
Ultraxion places a debuff on 1/3 (10/25) players. Drawing them into the Twilight over 5 to 10 seconds. Upon expiration, player in the Twilight Realm instantly die. Players in the normal realm forcibly enter the Twilight Realm, and are afflicted with Faded into Twilight.
Faded into Twilight
Residual Twilight effects cause all threat against Ultraxion to be reset. In addition, no threat will be generated for 10 seconds.

Hour of Twilight
The Hour of Twilight falls upon Ultraxion's foes. Enemies caught within the Twilight Realm take 300,000 unresistable Shadow Damage. Players in the normal realm forcibly enter the Twilight Realm. If Hour of Twilight does not strike at least 1/3 player, the aspects take the full brunt of the attack. This ends the encounter.

Twilight Burst
If every player stands outside the range of his powerful claws, Ultraxion expels a powerful burst of Twilight energy. This burst inflicts 75,000 unresistable Shadow damage on all players and increases their magical damage taken by 50% for 6 seconds. This affect stacks.

Twilight Eruption
After 6 minutes have passed, Ultraxion's instability reaches uncontrollable levels and erupts outward as a massive explosion that destroys all nearby foes and Ultraxion.

Protection of the Aspects
The Aspects provide limited aid to the players as they fight Ultraxion. Each player may only have 1 aspects buff active at once.

Thrall
-Last Defender of Azeroth
Thrall, blesses all tanks with the immovable strength of the ancient stones of the world. The blessing reduces defensive cool downs by 50% and increases defensive ability duration by 100%.

Alexstrasza
-Gift of Life
Alexstrasza, creates a crystal of pure life that blesses the 'user' (person who clicks it) with the essence of life itself, increasing healing by 100% for the duration of the battle.

Ysera
-Essence of Dreams
Ysera, creates a crystal of dream energy that blesses the 'user' with the power of dreams, which causes all healing done to be duplicated and distributed evenly among all friendly units within a 50 yard radius.

Kalecgos
-Source of Magic
Kalecgos creates a crystal of amplified arcane energy that blesses one healer (the user) with the essence of magic, reducing mana cost of all spells by 75%, and increasing spell haste by 100% for the rest of the battle.

Nozdormu
-Timeloop
Nozdormu captures all players within a finite timeloop. Any player that would be killed is brought to 100% health, but removes the timeloop from them.

Heroic
On Heroic Difficulty has two changes

Hour of Twilight
Hour of Twilight now requires 2/5 (10/25) players to take the damage. And the damage is roughly 350,000 per player

Faded into twilight
Now causes those afflicted with it to take 100% additional damage for 10 seconds.

leethaxor
10-28-2011, 09:31 PM
reserved.

Archy
10-31-2011, 04:28 AM
Is it just me, or this is yet another boss that forces specific classes on to the 10man groups? I hope they change it, because the only way we could do this on the ptr was with a DK and a Spriest, and frankly we don't have a dk or a feral druid on the live realm...

kopcap
10-31-2011, 06:49 AM
Safeguard should help.

Thegreatme
10-31-2011, 06:53 AM
for heroic, if you have a dps warrior, they can get a hand of sac,and use shield wall and rallying cry and survive hour of twilight with ~40% hp if they were at full. though they will only be able to do this for a max of 2 of the 7 HoT's during the fight.

Fetzie
10-31-2011, 09:14 AM
How often does he perform Hour of Twilight?

Thegreatme
10-31-2011, 09:14 AM
every 45 seconds.

Fetzie
10-31-2011, 09:17 AM
Wouldn't a viable tactic be the guy that stays in the twilight realm activating Nozdormu's buff to survive the damage?

leethaxor
10-31-2011, 11:11 AM
Yes and no. There is a massive amount of damage going out. Nozdormu's buff is needed to combat the damage the raid is taken, by the time it goes out.

aling
11-01-2011, 01:42 AM
Does Hour of Twiligh break through some classes' immunity skill? like mage's iceblock.

Thegreatme
11-01-2011, 06:17 AM
paladin bubbles work, ice block works, not sure about deterrence but my guess is probably.

Fetzie
11-01-2011, 06:19 AM
If Hour of Twilight does not strike at least 1/3 player, the aspects take the full brunt of the attack. This ends the encounter.

Does this have any effect on the viability of immunities to prevent Hour of Twilight? If I remember correctly there was a similar mechanic on Algalon and he wiped the attempt if you were immune to his supernova/explosion thing.

leethaxor
11-01-2011, 10:32 AM
Does this have any effect on the viability of immunities to prevent Hour of Twilight? If I remember correctly there was a similar mechanic on Algalon and he wiped the attempt if you were immune to his supernova/explosion thing.

I really should edit the second post. You can't be immune, or resist.

Which means Ice block and Bubble don't count. Also no resistances mean you can't stack shadow resistance gear (if any was even added in this xpack). The only way to reduce the damage is to stack Damage Reduction cooldowns.

guyinachair
12-01-2011, 09:03 AM
Now that the raid is out, I can confirm that abilities that make you immune do work for hour of twilight, deterrence, ice block, bubble, etc. My guild tested all of them and they successfully worked.

Wurtane
12-01-2011, 10:11 PM
Is it viable to do this with 5 healers? Obviously, 6 is the preferred number. However, if you swapped out that 6th healer for a dps, would it make the fight easier or harder?

Rowdy
12-02-2011, 04:40 AM
Is it just me, or this is yet another boss that forces specific classes on to the 10man groups? I hope they change it, because the only way we could do this on the ptr was with a DK and a Spriest, and frankly we don't have a dk or a feral druid on the live realm...
Why donīt you let the tanks handle it?!

Outbackjack
12-02-2011, 06:30 AM
Why donīt you let the tanks handle it?!

As stated above, quite eloquently, tanks should be able to absorb the blow with a damage cooldown running. I'm alternating Shield Wall and Last Stand/Enraged Regen to survive the Hour of Twilight ability. (10 man)

Theotherone
12-02-2011, 06:57 AM
We beat this with two pally tanks; me and the RL. He basically absorbed the Hour of Twilight's alone and we taunted off on the Fading Lights. With the damage reduction cooldowns cut in half proper rolling of cooldowns allowed him to survive pretty easily - well, okay, I did hit him with a Lay on Hands at one point.

The hit box is HUGE so we kept the dps all stacked so the Shammys could roll Healing Rain and their Spirit LinK totems; the Holy Priest took the mana, haste buff and was spamming Prayer of Healing. Once we got the Normal/Twilight switching down, it was just a dps/heal race. Not that the switching was hard or anything, but big zone out factor as the dps is trying to push out that last bit of damage before hitting Heroic Will.

The raid comp was:

Tanks
Pally
Pally

DPS
Warlock
Pally
Hunter
Rogue
Frost DK

Healing
Holy Priest
Shammy
Shammy

Reev
12-02-2011, 06:59 AM
We banged our heads on this for a while last night in 25 man and kept dying with about 12% remaining HP on the boss, because our damage taken became to great to heal through. Then we dropped to a 10 man to just get past it, and it became orders of magnitude easier, not just because we were able to bring our top dps to bear on it, but also because all the healing/tanking requirements became simpler, at least according to my guild. We one shot it on 10 man after about 25 attempts on 25 man.

I'm not claiming all 10 mans are easier than 25s or anything like that, but Ultra certainly seemed a hell of a lot easier on 10 man.

Theotherone
12-02-2011, 07:06 AM
We banged our heads on this for a while last night in 25 man and kept dying with about 12% remaining HP on the boss, because our damage taken became to great to heal through. Then we dropped to a 10 man to just get past it, and it became orders of magnitude easier, not just because we were able to bring our top dps to bear on it, but also because all the healing/tanking requirements became simpler, at least according to my guild. We one shot it on 10 man after about 25 attempts on 25 man.

I'm not claiming all 10 mans are easier than 25s or anything like that, but Ultra certainly seemed a hell of a lot easier on 10 man.

What's nice that you had going for you is that you could cherry pick your best dps for the fight from your 25 man; however, becareful what you wish for the next fight's not the old Loot Ship by any stretch.

Reev
12-02-2011, 07:09 AM
Oh, we already killed that one on 25. Took 4 attempts. It's definitely harder than the old lootship, but not too terribly difficult.

Theotherone
12-02-2011, 07:29 AM
Oh, we already killed that one on 25. Took 4 attempts. It's definitely harder than the old lootship, but not too terribly difficult.

Damn, we took 5 cracks at it last night on 10 man and didn't get close. Granted it was late and people were just not focused after the Ultra fight - no excuse, but there was not a lot of effort being put out.

Migol
12-02-2011, 09:53 AM
I'll reaffirm that 10-man is leagues easier, since you just rotate tanks for hour of twilight (the timing on cds and fading light comes out perfectly). IMO they shouldn't force more people to stay out in 25-man, it just adds unnecessary difficulty and class stacking problems. Once tanks get their 4piece this will be much less of an issue since anyone with full health can stay out and survive, but still seems like a poorly thought out thing.

Quinafoi
12-03-2011, 08:13 AM
If for some reason you UI either blocks the extra action button or does not show it...

/click ExtraActionButton1
Also applies to the Madness of Deathwing encounter for Ysera's Dream ability.
Bartender4 and Dominos in their updated versions both support repositioning of one this button action bar, but those using UI customizations which block its default location without using additional customizations for repositioning may want to have this macro.

Theotherone
12-03-2011, 10:24 AM
If for some reason you UI either blocks the extra action button or does not show it...

/click ExtraActionButton1
Also applies to the Madness of Deathwing encounter for Ysera's Dream ability.
Bartender4 and Dominos in their updated versions both support repositioning of one this button action bar, but those using UI customizations which block its default location without using additional customizations for repositioning may want to have this macro.

Yeah we had to do the macro the first night before Dominos and Bar Tender updated.

leethaxor
12-03-2011, 10:38 AM
Yeah we had to do the macro the first night before Dominos and Bar Tender updated.

Also the button and be bound in the standard UI keybind menu if anyone uses that.

Also gonna update the OP's tonight with more update pictures and the strats that the website's video actually uses not some of the cheesy mechanics my guild used to beat the fights on the PTR.

Lognar
12-04-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned here, but I found that as the tank if you blow all your defensive cooldowns on the pull, when Thrall gives you the buff 10-15 seconds into the fight, he resets all the cds. So it was a nice way to ease the damage going into the fight, especially as we were two healing it.

I really enjoy this one.

BryceE
12-04-2011, 08:18 PM
We've been 3 healing it. I think we're going to move to 2 healing it tomorrow night and see if we can't just beat him before the last 30 seconds, which we've heard is a bitch to heal.

I on my prot pally takes 3 hour of twilights while our bear tank takes the 4th one. By the time the 5th one comes I can take another hour of twilight just barely, but I just pop a lay on hands for it then. Then I'm free to take the 6th one again.

Our dps is as follows:

Destro lock: 27.3k
MM hunter: 26.4k
BM hunter: 23.4k
S priest: 24.2k
Arc mage: (fillin) 27.1k
Pally tank: 13kish
Bear tank: 12kish

Our hunter pets weren't able to attack for some reason either. They would look like they're attacking, but they got nothing from em. And our dps that was out this time was another MM hunter so.

And we were hitting the hard enrage every attempt and heals just couldn't heal through it. We have a disc priest taking blue crystal for haste, druid taking the red and a shaman heals taking green.

Is haste that good for disc priests or no? Our disc priests says its really good for him, but I would think the green would be better to duplicate his big heals right?

Esarael
12-04-2011, 09:08 PM
Haste isn't best for Discipline. Shields are instant cast and don't benefit from haste at all. You should probably leave it to the Shaman or the Druid. Haste will make the Shaman cast faster and the Druid should get lots of extra ticks from his HoTs.

I'd say let Disc be your tank healer and have him get green. Let Druid get red for extra raid healing and Shaman have blue; that's what I'd do.

BryceE
12-04-2011, 10:33 PM
Our disc priest says the haste is good for his aegis shields, hes apparently built for aegis shields or something. I don't know much about disc priests or healing in general so idk lol.

sirupfisch
12-05-2011, 03:06 AM
Our dps is as follows:
Destro lock: 27.3k
MM hunter: 26.4k
BM hunter: 23.4k
S priest: 24.2k
Arc mage: (fillin) 27.1k
Pally tank: 13kish
Bear tank: 12kish


This is just not enough DPS. In 10-man the boss has 56,688,720 life. This means with a fight lenght of 6 min (360) you need at least 157,5k DPS. You have around.
It might be due to your 2 hunters having issues with their pets. Is this still up to date?
It might be an issue of equip, but first check out your Spriests dmg. 24.2k seems very low for me. (The DD don't even have to move!).
Check out raidbots.com. There you can see whats "average" (Top 100 or all). Right now there is no data available for DS (But I assume will be wednesday).
An comparable fight might be Baleroc:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Baleroc/10H/100/14/30/default/

Also your Arcane Mage should have a look at the new and improved Fire Specc.
Destro lock DPS seems fine to me.





And we were hitting the hard enrage every attempt and heals just couldn't heal through it. We have a disc priest taking blue crystal for haste, druid taking the red and a shaman heals taking green.

Is haste that good for disc priests or no? Our disc priests says its really good for him, but I would think the green would be better to duplicate his big heals right?

I would go with your buff assignment, because:
Red is druid or shaman. Doesn't really matter.
Green only ticks if hots are over a certain amount (might not be triggering with renew from your disc) -> Shaman (Also your shaman might already be on the soft haste cap!)
Blue: It doesn't depend an raw heal output, therefore disc!

You might find some more useful information here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3530334543?page=1

sirupfisch
12-05-2011, 03:09 AM
Our disc priest says the haste is good for his aegis shields, hes apparently built for aegis shields or something. I don't know much about disc priests or healing in general so idk lol.

On this one..
Divine Aegis procs on all targets hit by PoH, give them 30% of the healed amount shielded. So more haste -> More PoH -> More Divine Aegis.

Quinafoi
12-05-2011, 07:49 AM
First off in regard to the hard enrage mechanic of Twilight Eruption, this is a 5 second cast that begins at the 6 minute mark, so the fight wipes at 365 seconds (6 minutes and 5 seconds). This actually lowers the calculation on the DPS required to kill the boss by about 2k DPS.

As for getting more DPS out of what you have...

1. Healing requirement ramps up over time. This means healing is significantly easier at the start of the encounter. As a result, healer(s) could also deal damage at the start of the encounter. A Discipline Priest in particular does fairly well in that department.

2. The start of the encounter is scripted and extremely predictable for boss mods, making prepotting this encounter very easy to pull off (simply drink when it's at like 1 second to start). This means that all DPS can do this for a small boost and likely should if you're just barely pushing the required DPS. Their second potion should be stacked with Heroism/Bloodlust/Time Warp which will likely be during Nozdormu's buff phase.

3. Heroic Will is off the global cooldown and can be used whenever you're in the Twilight Realm so long as you are not in the middle of a cast with a cast time. As a result DPS or tanks could wait for the last possible second before using it, and with more experience probably will trend towards that end. The less time you spend in the Normal Realm, the more time you spend in the Twilight Realm DPSing the boss.

BryceE
12-05-2011, 10:56 AM
The arcane mage was a fillin for other other MM hunter, yes we have 3 hunters in our core group. And might I mention our core group out of the 200ish people in guild are the only ones that are geared and actually know how to play. And this group is all officers and up rank lol.

Anyways, our other hunter usually pulls about the same as the other ones with his pet, but seeing how they can't get their pets to work we were going to have the shaman go elemental and just do 18k or something to push him over because we were getting him down to 10% every pull before healing got way to hard. And the mage admitted he wasn't doing his best because he was new to the fight and was trying not to die to hour of twilight (he hasnt raided since cata first started).

But tonight, we're going to have the shaman heals go dps since they're always the weakest healer for some reason and have the druid/disc priest heal. We were going to try red and blue to the druid and green to the priest and see how that went.

And I have no idea why our s. priest was so low on damage/dps. They're usually top of the charts around 30kish. Bad lag night maybe or something. Also this gorup is the type where they're good at they're class, but could be better if they switched specs and talents around, like the BM hunter, couldn't he get a lot higher if he went MM or something?

Setsa
12-05-2011, 12:16 PM
This video has a great strat. -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i95wmabDG4

CoolNitro
12-06-2011, 04:50 AM
Haste isn't best for Discipline. Shields are instant cast and don't benefit from haste at all. You should probably leave it to the Shaman or the Druid. Haste will make the Shaman cast faster and the Druid should get lots of extra ticks from his HoTs.

I'd say let Disc be your tank healer and have him get green. Let Druid get red for extra raid healing and Shaman have blue; that's what I'd do.

Green isn't very good for Disc even when spamming Greater heals with high crit, 70k heals = 4k each for the raid it's simply not enough healing on the raid to keep up.

As for shield spamming you have got to be joking a 35k PW:shield cast 1 per second is worse healing then the above.

My 10 man group two healed it with a Resto druid taking Red buff and my self a Disc priest taking Green then Blue nether of us needed to focus on the tanks because the only large damage they take is when they stay out for twilight and unless that kills them they usually only require a shield and maybe a penance and a hot from the druid, so in general we only really cast aoe healing spells and that is all that is required for this fight.

I can't remember the exact dps numbers but the 6 dps where on:

Rogue: 29k
Pally: 28k
DK: 26k
Hunter: 25k
S priest: 20k
Lock: 20k

For some reason our ranged dps where having major issues on this fight and we still haven't figured out what was causing it.



This video has a great strat. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i95wmabDG4&list=UUTkZVLoKEuAEiMVDsZsq21w&feature=plcp

Good guide Tankspot should take note.

BryceE
12-06-2011, 05:32 AM
We downed it last night. We were 2 healing it but kept wiping literally at 1-2% so our shaman healer that went dps agreed to step out for the kill while we brought in a second arcane mage then will killed him right as the healing got harder. We're thinking about having our resto druid go kitty or boomy next week just so the shaman can get the kill for it and have shaman and disc priest heal.

But our resto druid was doing like 40k hps while our disc priest was doing 34k absorbs and healing. Our shaman was like half that for some reason. And our hunter pets actually got to attack as well which helped things a lot. We just engaged him further back onto the platform.

zuke8675309
12-06-2011, 07:41 AM
If you're having troubles either beating the enrage timer or keeping up with heals at the end of the fight, I HIGHLY recommend 2 healing it. We have good healers, but the amount of dmg to heal through past the 5:15 mark or so was kicking our butts. We had a healer go dps on the theory that the healing really only gets bad past the 5 minute mark. On the first pull 2 healing, we got a kill in 4:59. This was with a disc priest and resto shaman. Also, a feral offtank on this fight is pretty nice because they can start the first minute or so of the fight in cat form for extra dps. Ours did about 19k dps.

Bigbad
12-06-2011, 08:00 AM
Did 20k dps as prot warrior on our first 25man kill yesterday gotta love 100% shieldblock uptime, heavy repercussion and enough vengeance and rage for everything :)

If the dps isn't above 25k they're doing it wrong, you want to heroic will close to the end of the hour of twilight cast and close to the end of the fading light buff for maximum uptime on the boss. Ideally you want all dps at about 30k.

Physcx
12-06-2011, 11:54 AM
Our alt - raid managed to kill him 10 man without too much trouble using a 1 tank 2 healer strat and killing him at about the 5:10 mark. Poorly geared raid with a lot of dps pulling 24k ish.

In order to 1 tank him the tank waits until as late into the fading lights as possible to use his Heroic Will and taunts as soon as he pops back into the twilight realm. When done correctly the boss doesn't decide to turn and 1 shot someone.

Esarael
12-06-2011, 12:04 PM
Haivng killed Ultraxion on two different characters using both a 3-healer strategy and a 2-healer strategy, I'll have to say using 2-healers is WAY easier. The DPS per character on the group with 2 healers was lower than that of the group with 3 healers, but we still managed to kill Ultraxion just as Nozdormu did his Timeloop - that is, right before healing actually became hard.

This also more or less solves the problem of the "Who gets the bad green crystal?".

CoolNitro
12-07-2011, 03:41 PM
Here is a decent log we got today two healing it.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zlp6u3mc7ro1uy7r/?s=7638&e=7950

Healer setup was Disc, Resto Druid, Druid on Red buff the entire fight and myself Disc on Green then Blue, both healers doing 37k and 35K.

Dps wasn't great only two at 30k next at 26K / 22K / 22K / 18K, tanks on the other hand where doing 15k each.

sirupfisch
12-13-2011, 07:27 AM
Thanks for the Log @CoolNitro.

We also downed the Boss with 2 healers (Druid, Disc) and 2 tanks. Der Druid took the first red crystal, the Disc then green and blue. Our raidDPS was around 195k. For 2 healers it is definitely doable (We have iLevel around 382). I (Disc) also did my Mana Hymn before the first minute was over ("Ultraxion gets more instable" -> More AoE), so the Druid won't have mana probs.

I also highly advice your RL to always announce a) "Hour of Twilight now" and b) "Tank X and DD Y Fading Light".
With Fading Light we had the issue, that 2 of our DDs couldn't see their debuff (They are playing with standardUI). So I always checked their debuff and announced it for them when to click.
btw click: Use that macro! You are much faster.

Only person which had problems was our new feral, cause he cannot use Shred. I heard that Glyph of Mangle instead of blood. is advised here. Any other tips?

leethaxor
12-15-2011, 11:41 AM
A few tips:
- Any tank cooldowns used before the pull will reset when thrall buff's tanks
- Any raid cooldown that is used while a player is outside the twilight realm will not applied to them when they port back (unless it has a position requirement aka totem or barrier).
- Have you tanks blow several major cooldowns on the pull (since they will reset). And have healers teleport out of the twilight realm, which will allow you to cast blood lust/ heroism for maximum raid dps benefit. Then it can be used again when healers actually need it.

CoolNitro
12-15-2011, 05:45 PM
A few tips:
- have healers teleport out of the twilight realm, which will allow you to cast blood lust/ heroism for maximum raid dps benefit. Then it can be used again when healers actually need it.

Good tip I wouldn't have ever considered that.

Esarael
12-15-2011, 06:48 PM
Consider, though, that if you got enough DPS classes with Execute mechanics, Bloodlust may be best used at the end of the encounter.

leethaxor
12-15-2011, 07:28 PM
Consider, though, that if you got enough DPS classes with Execute mechanics, Bloodlust may be best used at the end of the encounter.

Unless the majority of your group is execution dps it will be best to blood lust at the start. You will have all your internals up and can count on affects light power torrent and landslide etc. being rolled into guardians like doomguard and flame ele. Also it can help proc rune of the fallen crusader for DK's and every cooldown is up at the pull (normally)

terraflare
12-28-2011, 09:01 AM
If i'm 2 healing it, what spec should i use? I'm a holy / disc priest, and my healer mate is a resto druid. Now what is possibly the best healing spec here if i'm 2 healing it? Few things to note:

1) i'm ilv 383, taking red crystal
2) my friend is a resto druid, ilv 386, taking blue (maybe green before blue pops)

Disc
1) power infusion is constantly given to my highest dps caster in the raid. Holy spec, it's gone = lower dps
2) pain suppression = for tank during hour of twilight
3) barrier = drop during extreme dmg at the last moments
4) i take red crystal = more healing = more divine aegis

Holy
1) great aoe heal, esp sanc, works wonders
2) lightwell, best diy heal
3) divine hymn is a must spell for holy here, especially when it's paired with red crystal. 50k / tick
4) runs out of mana quite early, so mana preservation is quite needed

Esarael
12-28-2011, 10:49 AM
You're doing it wrong. Blue crystal is probably the worst for Resto Druid. They are already pretty mana efficient when they're AoE healing and many of their spells would be GCD capped at 100% extra haste. The best (the only good one?) crystal for Resto Druids is the red one.

The red crystal is good for Disc, too, but blue is excellent. You can just spam Prayer of Healing for a lot of Divine Aegis stacking; the mana reduction should allow you to spam it. Of course, before blue kicks in, you should get green.

Pain Suppression is not necessary for Hour of Twilight if your tanks are doing it correctly, but it's a good option if you coordinate with your tanks, because it frees up their Shield Wall for normal tanking. Of course all of this goes to waste if we're talking about DK's since they can just AMS through the Hour of Twilight.

I'm not used to having Holy in my 10man, but I guess it could work too. I'm not sure how well it scales with haste but due to its mana needs I'm pretty you'd have to get blue (which you should be getting anyway because your Resto Druid should be taking red). My advice is go Disc.

leethaxor
12-28-2011, 10:52 AM
Yeah blue is far better on a disc priest. You will be able to spam AoE heals on the GCD and never oom. We give our resto druid green.

terraflare
12-28-2011, 10:55 PM
Yeah blue is far better on a disc priest. You will be able to spam AoE heals on the GCD and never oom. We give our resto druid green.

Yeah, that's the prob see. If we're two healing it, which class should get which crystal. But if druid get green, what can he do with it?

Red is best for druid imo, but his ticks arent kicking enough in the last moments.

One more question, does green distribute healing over time spells? It says direct, so does it distribute direct HoT spell? Or merely the single target direct heals?

If i'm holy, i can basically maximize the healing for green and blue crystals. I've tried disc, but not nearly powerful.

Just a question, out of curiosity. If we're 2 healing, are we supposed to even see timeloop buff from nozdormu?

Outbackjack
12-29-2011, 06:29 AM
You should see the first Time Loop but he'll die soon after that.

Quinafoi
12-30-2011, 12:13 PM
Healing buff priorities...

Assuming all things are equal (including player skill).

Blue is the best buff for a Discipline Priest.
Red is the best buff for everyone else.
Green is the worse buff for any healing class.


Rule 1:
Above all else, if you have a Discipline Priest, they should be getting the blue buff. This is because they can switch to Prayer of Healing spam which is a long enough cast time to fully benefit from the haste and the reduced mana cost makes it perfectly spammable. This combined with Divine Aegis allows for procing shields on the entire raid very quickly increasing the effective health of everyone and as damage ramps up at the end of the encounter this additional buffer from absorbs helps a great deal. Restoration Druid is the single worst healer to give a blue buff due to how haste functions.

Rule 2:
If you are two healing the fight, whichever healer is getting the blue buff should also be the one getting the green buff. While it isn't ideal, it's better than nothing until the more desirable blue buff is available.

Rule3:
Priorities for red buff are as follows: Restoration Druid, Restoration Shaman, Holy Priest, and Holy Paladin. If you have a Restoration Druid, it's better to give them the red buff and let whatever other healer you have get the green buff. This is basically a spectrum of who would benefit the least from green. All benefit the most from red, but a Druid benefits less from Green than a Shaman. A Shaman benefits less from Green than a Holy Priest. A Holy Priest benefits less from Green than a Holy Paladin. One healer having their best buff and another having an ok buff is better than having one with their best and one with a terrible buff.


In the event that you have more than one healer of the same class and spec, then differences between the individual players would likely be involved in the decision making process. And even if all healers are different these differences between one player and another may also change how you prioritize. These guidelines are written simply comparing the classes and specs and how they work without any consideration for player skill.

Ishau
12-30-2011, 05:04 PM
Holy Paladins will do far more with the blue crystal than a Disc Priest will ever be able to do.

Outbackjack
12-31-2011, 07:17 AM
Holy Paladins will do far more with the blue crystal than a Disc Priest will ever be able to do. Care to elaborate on that? If you've got some factual insight on the encounter we'd love to hear it, but comments like this without any reasoning are not constructive.

aresius
12-31-2011, 10:41 AM
Well, a holy paladin can spam holy radiance with blue, which is quite effective on the stacked group. Cant say its more or less effective then a disc priest with the buff, we dont have a disc priest in our comp.
I also meant to ask you guys if its possible for a paladin to stay out for a hour of twilight with a bubble. Was thinking if maybe a pally tank could take 2 hours in a row by bubbling the first one and using goak on the second (for heroic ultrax), and if his bubble cooldown is affected by the reduced cooldowns buff.

Esarael
12-31-2011, 10:48 AM
You must bear in mind that the Blue Crystal is best for any non-Druid healer and any decent non-Druid player should have huge healing numbers with that crystal. Simply stating that "Class and Spec X is the best with Blue Crystal" without anything more to back it up doesn't really count much. In this sense, both Ishau and Quinafoi didn't make very good points.

Note that Quinafoi didn't back up much of what he said. He simply pointed out that Prayer of Healing is good to spam and Divine Aegis makes it nicer; indeed yes it does. But once could also make an argument that Holy Radiance does also become a very powerful, spammable spell with all the extra ticks. From my personal experience having the Holy Paladin pick up the Blue Crystal netted very good results. But that isn't conclusive evidence, it's just an explanation on how that spec works with the crystal.

The Red Crystal and Blue Crystal both work very well for both Discipline Priests and Holy Paladins. The Divine Aegis argument (if you can call it that) works here, because its shields are proportional to the heal made by Prayer of Healing and the Red Crystal means a bigger Prayer of Healing which in turn means a bigger Divine Aegis shield.

Besides player skill, a factor that I consider is very important when deciding which healer should get the Blue Crystal is mana efficiency. If your non-Druid healer faces mana problems (Holy Priest, I'm looking at you) or lacks the 2pT13 it might be a good idea to give him the Blue Crystal.


EDIT: Under normal circumstances, a Paladin's Divine Shield does work for Hour of Twilight soaking. I'm not entirely sure you can do it if affected by Looming Darkness (Heroic Ultraxion's HoT debuff).

Quinafoi
12-31-2011, 04:08 PM
Divine Aegis and the fact that Prayer of Healing becomes truly spammable with the mana cost reduction is what actually makes blue ideal for Discipline. Damage reduction is always greater than healing increase (this concept relates closely to the concept of effective health, it's always better to survive and be healed than it is to take more damage and die before a heal lands). Prior to having that buff it isn't feasible for a Priest of any spec to simply spam Prayer of Healing indefinately without running out of mana. Power Word: Shield which is used significantly more prior to the spawning of the blue crystal is the reason why a Discipline Priest typically does not want red. While it is a direct healing increase, it does not effect Power Word: Shield. It will however effect shields created through Divine Aegis.

Blue is worst for a Restoration Druid not because haste doesn't benefit them as much, but rather because of how spells are tuned. The healing over time abilities in a Restroration Druid's toolbox are tuned to increase benefit from both the reduction in GCD and increase in tick frequency. However, when they hit the GCD minimum, these abilities are no longer receiving their maximum benefit from haste, it is still a significant benefit but it isn't the same as an ability like Prayer of Healing where the cast time is significant enough that it receives a full benefit from haste. That ability is tuned to only befenefit haste in reducing its cast time, so long as the cast time remains above the GCD minimum of 1 second that ability receives its full benefit of haste that the abilities are tuned for.

Green largely comes down to simply choosing which of your healers will be able to benefit most from it. It isn't ideal for any, but you are simply put in a situation where you have to decide what is optimal for the healing team, not the individual healer.

Quinafoi
12-31-2011, 04:14 PM
All advice aside... regardless of your buff assignments.

A good healer will out perform a bad healer.

terraflare
01-01-2012, 11:04 PM
Yay, i finally downed this guy, 2 healers (priest and druid), with me, the holy priest, getting the blue crystal, and the druid with red.

We fought all the way till we see timeloop, and the moment timeloop pops, my druid pop tranq, afterwards i pop my hymn, while my hymn is halfway done, ultraxion is dead, leaving all my members at full health without having any of their timeloop buffs removed.

And i have to add, druid having red crystal can basically solo heal every1 until the 4th minute (that is if they have 383 ilv, well my druid friend does)
And for statistics sake, me and my druid friend has 34k hps, while our dps has the range of 22-27k dps, 6 of em.