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Zulrann
09-22-2011, 10:20 PM
Protection warrior here, starting to get into endgame raiding much more, and I've been having questions about what I should be reforging to. First time poster on Tankspot, as well.

Before we start, let me say that I KNOW I should have Mastery on everything I own, and that it's my most important stat. My real question is between parry/dodge. I've heard some people say they should be as close as possible, but others say my parry should lead my dodge. I've even heard someone say it should be the other way. Basically I want to know which of these is true. Currently, I'm sitting at 13.64% dodge, 16.67% parry, and 51.16% block.

Any and all help is much appreciated.

Tengenstein
09-22-2011, 10:48 PM
Parry should lead dodge, though by how much is a tricky question to answer, the mastery you have the more parry should lead, however the further into diminishing returns you get, the less parry should lead.

Zulrann
09-22-2011, 10:53 PM
The concept of "diminishing returns" has always been a bit strange to understand for me. Could you explain to me briefly what it is, and when it starts to kick in for parry or dodge?

Tengenstein
09-23-2011, 12:13 AM
Basically the more of a stat rating you stack the less of that stat it gets you. The following example is hyperbole for demonstrations:

Say warriordude has 0 parry rating (and 0 dodge rating), and he gets a sword with 1parry rating on it, that parry rating increase his chance to parry by 1%. Next boss a shield drops that also has 1 parry rating on it, if he equips it he goes up to 2 parry rating in total, but this gives him a total increase in parry chance of 1.8%. The first parry rating bought him 1%parry, the next parry rating only bought him 0.8% additional parry.

Now lets rewind the clock and say rather getting a shield drop, he gets a trinket drop with 1 dodge rating on it, because this is his first point of Dodge rating it doesn't suffer from diminishing returns at all so buys him a whole 1% dodge chance. So he now has a 1% chance to dodge and a 1% chance to parry. A total of 2% increase in avoidance.

The above is all hyperbole but DR stars as soon as you have stats, it just doesn't make alot of difference, there's no break point where it suddenly start kicking in, it just continually kicks in more and more as you stack a stat more and more,.

This is why paladins and Death Knights like to have balanced or near balanced avoidance ratings, since parry and Dodge tend to be easily reforged into one another they get more total avoidance from their total ratings by putting them into whichever stat (dodge or parry) they have the least rating currently in.

Warriors for the most part are the same except we have the Hold the Line Talent, which means with increase the chance of our blocks being critical (double sized) for 10 seconds after parrying, which means for overall damage reduction it pays to parry slightly more than it does to doge to increase the uptime on the HtL buff. The actual break point is a little complicated to calculate, and generally should be done with either simming or someone else head, or a site you trust.

As far as warrior tanks are concerned the only stats that have diminishing returns are Parry rating, dodge rating, and Armour. and for most

Zulrann
09-23-2011, 01:45 AM
Basically the more of a stat rating you stack the less of that stat it gets you. The following example is hyperbole for demonstrations:

Say warriordude has 0 parry rating (and 0 dodge rating), and he gets a sword with 1parry rating on it, that parry rating increase his chance to parry by 1%. Next boss a shield drops that also has 1 parry rating on it, if he equips it he goes up to 2 parry rating in total, but this gives him a total increase in parry chance of 1.8%. The first parry rating bought him 1%parry, the next parry rating only bought him 0.8% additional parry.

Now lets rewind the clock and say rather getting a shield drop, he gets a trinket drop with 1 dodge rating on it, because this is his first point of Dodge rating it doesn't suffer from diminishing returns at all so buys him a whole 1% dodge chance. So he now has a 1% chance to dodge and a 1% chance to parry. A total of 2% increase in avoidance.

The above is all hyperbole but DR stars as soon as you have stats, it just doesn't make alot of difference, there's no break point where it suddenly start kicking in, it just continually kicks in more and more as you stack a stat more and more,.

This is why paladins and Death Knights like to have balanced or near balanced avoidance ratings, since parry and Dodge tend to be easily reforged into one another they get more total avoidance from their total ratings by putting them into whichever stat (dodge or parry) they have the least rating currently in.

Warriors for the most part are the same except we have the Hold the Line Talent, which means with increase the chance of our blocks being critical (double sized) for 10 seconds after parrying, which means for overall damage reduction it pays to parry slightly more than it does to doge to increase the uptime on the HtL buff. The actual break point is a little complicated to calculate, and generally should be done with either simming or someone else head, or a site you trust.

As far as warrior tanks are concerned the only stats that have diminishing returns are Parry rating, dodge rating, and Armour. and for most

Alright, that makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me. So with that out of the way, would you say as long as my dodge % is around 2-3% below my parry chance, would you say that's an acceptable margin to keep them at?

Tengenstein
09-23-2011, 01:57 AM
Probably. Rightly or wrongly I keep mine closer together, just under 2% less dodge than parry but i'm more concerned with getting unhittable that maximising the damage reductions.

One thing to keep in minfd is that wind walk is 600dodge rating ~33% time, Kings is also a lump of parry as is battle shout and their equivalents so if those are gonna be up in raid s its worth reforging to optimise whith those up

Zulrann
09-23-2011, 02:26 AM
That's a good point. I'll play around with that idea.

Also, just to make sure, I should never bother reforging/gemming/enchanting for hit/expertise, correct? At least on the current patch.

Tengenstein
09-23-2011, 04:13 AM
No, at present Expertise is approximately zero, and hit is worth slightly more half of that.

swelt
09-23-2011, 04:42 AM
But do consider having a 'threat set' with some odd pieces of expertise/hit gear for stuff like trash clears or heroics, just for quality of life.

Tengenstein
09-23-2011, 04:58 AM
Oh yes, there's nothing like blasting through VP or LCotTV in less than 5 minutes.

Zulrann
09-23-2011, 05:32 AM
But do consider having a 'threat set' with some odd pieces of expertise/hit gear for stuff like trash clears or heroics, just for quality of life.

I'll consider making that, but I still have a bit of work to do on my current tanking set, anyway.

And also to Tengenstein, by "unhittable" you mean having enough combined avoidance to make every attack against you either a block, parry, or miss, right?

Bigbad
09-23-2011, 06:01 AM
Unhittable when parry+dodge+miss+block=102,4%

Zulrann
09-23-2011, 06:26 AM
Unhittable when parry+dodge+miss+block=102,4%

I see. I think I've heard of the formula for calculating how close you are to that cap, but could you refresh my memory of it (assuming you know it offhand)

Tengenstein
09-23-2011, 07:03 AM
3.6% raid buffed.

Tengenstein
09-23-2011, 07:03 AM
3.6% off raid buffed.

Zulrann
09-23-2011, 07:12 AM
3.6% off raid buffed.

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by "3.6% (off) raid buffed." Could you explain?

Pagezero
09-23-2011, 11:01 AM
I think he is saying you get 3.6% from raid buffs (Kings/Mark, Battle shout, Mastery Food, Mastery Flask). It might not be 3.6%, for me these buffs only give me 3.47% (because of the amount of parry I have DR kicks in a bit more).

Zulrann
09-23-2011, 11:12 AM
I think he is saying you get 3.6% from raid buffs (Kings/Mark, Battle shout, Mastery Food, Mastery Flask). It might not be 3.6%, for me these buffs only give me 3.47% (because of the amount of parry I have DR kicks in a bit more).

Oh, I see.

Bigbad
09-23-2011, 12:45 PM
I see. I think I've heard of the formula for calculating how close you are to that cap, but could you refresh my memory of it (assuming you know it offhand)

parry+dodge+miss+block=102,4% That's the formula lol :P

Just add up your parry,dodge & block and add the standard 5% miss (nightelf racial gives extra misschance). The 2,4% is cause of bosses being 3 levels higher. Its 0,2% block, parry, dodge, miss per level adding up to 2,4% for 3 levels.

If you google unhittable macro you should get a few usable macro's for ingame.

Kerchunk
09-23-2011, 01:08 PM
But do consider having a 'threat set' with some odd pieces of expertise/hit gear for stuff like trash clears or heroics, just for quality of life.

Hmm, just put on DPS gear... not just expertise/hit, but everything. I do 5-mans in almost all DPS gear except my shield & weapon. At appropriate iLvls and a moderately competent healer, you don't need the survival stats and you will do 30k+ dps on trash pulls.

Just remember to go back to normal sets for tough bosses (or raid night).

TankerTom
10-14-2011, 05:54 AM
Unhittable when parry+dodge+miss+block=102,4%

What kind of number is 102,4% ?
I've never seen such a thing.

Airowird
10-14-2011, 06:12 AM
What kind of number is 102,4% ?
I've never seen such a thing.It's 100% + 3 (level difference) * 0.2% * #table entries (miss, dodge, parry, block = 4)
Total: 102.4%
Technicly, your actual miss/dodge/parry/block chances are 0.6% lower than the paperdoll numbers when tanking a boss, which then would total to exactly 100%, but most people tend to prefer to aim for the paperdoll number to make it easier.

metalbunny
11-08-2011, 05:14 AM
Hmm, just put on DPS gear... not just expertise/hit, but everything. I do 5-mans in almost all DPS gear except my shield & weapon. At appropriate iLvls and a moderately competent healer, you don't need the survival stats and you will do 30k+ dps on trash pulls.

Just remember to go back to normal sets for tough bosses (or raid night).

You seem to me like one of those people that think you can tank in pvp gear (or dps gear like you say, which makes the same difference). Wear the right gear for the job or don't bother ever queuing as tank. Stressing the healer needlessly in order to go faster only gets you one thing: a guaranteed spot on the failboat. The best healers don't put up with that, and they shouldn't. Dungeons aren't a racetrack, nomatter how much ADD you have, you still need to work as a team, the rest of the group isn't there to carry you through.

Kavaren
11-09-2011, 11:27 PM
Pros tank 5 mans in dps gear, always been that way! (or at least hit/exp cap and dps trinkets)

Dreagar
11-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but at least until 4.3 comes out I believe this graph still holds true.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4733/newratiograph.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/newratiograph.png/)

Booi
11-12-2011, 07:38 AM
Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but at least until 4.3 comes out I believe this graph still holds true.

The dimension that this graph does not carry is incoming attack frequency - which has a dramatic effect on parry's value. Heck, it doesn't even note the attack speed for which the graph was generated.

Tengenstein
11-12-2011, 07:56 AM
Kolmagorov made the graph and in the accompanying thread on MMO-C (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/940236-Updated-Parry-Dodge-ratio-graph) he explains it a little bit;


The difference between the 'optimal' ratio and a very bad one is in the hundredths of a percent of damage taken. It's much more important to simply try and get gear with a lot of defensive stats, and have as much of that as possible be mastery. After that, if you can get your parry:dodge ratio to anywhere in the 1 to 1.4 range, that's good enough.

The graph was created assuming a boss with a medium swing timer [2 seconds], and this graph applies most directly to that situation. Any situation with adds, or a very slow hitting boss will skew the optimal ratio one way or the other, and let me reiterate that small deviations from that ratio bear practically no penalty.

I made the graph because it's nice to understand that Hold the Line doesn't make parry a godly stat. Before I made the original one, i was running around with a parry:dodge ratio of 2.2 or something ridiculous. Hopefully it gets across the idea that parry is a little bit better than dodge... and just a little bit. It's also neat to see the relationship between mastery and parry as Hold the Line gives them an interesting synergy.

uktank
11-12-2011, 08:22 PM
diminishing returns......now i understand lol :D ty

Loganisis
11-12-2011, 10:03 PM
The dimension that this graph does not carry is incoming attack frequency - which has a dramatic effect on parry's value. Heck, it doesn't even note the attack speed for which the graph was generated.

Not sure why those matter. You're looking at two varaibles - dodge and parry - that are equally affected by the attack frequency/swing timer. It's simply identifying the optimal distribution of dodge/parry with hold the line factored in. Whether the swing timer is 1 second or 600 seconds, the compartive value of dodge and parry will remain since both are equally affected by the rate of incoming attacks.

I'm not sure why you think attack speed (effectively the exact same thing as frequency) is necessary when comparing dodge:parry?

Tengenstein
11-13-2011, 01:25 AM
I suspect it's to do with clipping Hold the Line. Massively simplified explantion of it is that the slower the boss swing timer the more parry I need to keep HtL up and the higher the chance its going to go it s full duration before being refreshed where as with a fast swing timer i don't need to parry so many of them to keep it up and am going to end up clipping it more often.

Fast swing timers(like baleroc) down shift the curves on the graph, slower swing (like Chimaeron) timers up shift them.

..If's i'm not talking out my arse.

Booi
11-13-2011, 06:23 AM
Teng, you are correct.

The only reason we don't maintain a 1:1 ratio on dodge to parry is because of hold the line. The offset on the ratio is what covers the benefit of increased block value due to HtL. Essentially we are willing to sacrifice some avoidance by riding higher on the parry DR, - allowing for better HtL uptime. This is why the graph exists in the first place.

Being closer to 1:1 helps when still reaching for unhittability, the benefit of which is lost on this graph as well. The willingness to take more damage, but smoother damage - something that fighting for the ideal ratio contradicts. You take less damage, but more unblocked hits (which contradicts why we stack mastery in the first place).

If you always aim for 1:1 (and won't reach it due to parry from str) you're likely closer to the best setup for your toon than if you aim for the arbitrary ratio in the graph above. Not that you could detect the difference in these two strategies, and more likely they would come up with same reforge pattern anyways.


TLDR:
1) Before Unhittability, striving for this ideal ratio above contradicts the reason you stack mastery in the first place - aim for 1:1.
2) After Unhittability, I suspect the best strategy is to get as much parry as you can while maintaining unhittability.

kopcap
11-13-2011, 06:54 AM
If you always aim for 1:1 (and won't reach it due to parry from str) you're likely closer to the best setup for your toon than if you aim for the arbitrary ratio in the graph above.How is that???


Not that you could detect the difference in these two strategies, and more likely they would come up with same reforge pattern anyways.I don't understand what you are saying here.


After Unhittability, I suspect the best strategy is to get as much parry as you can while maintaining unhittability.Based on what?

Booi
11-13-2011, 07:40 AM
@kopcap

1) Reforging parry to dodge i have never ended up with more dodge than parry. Because 27% of your strength is converted to parry, and because blizzard gives us balanced stat weights, and reforging only reforges 60% of a stat - it makes it difficult (functionally impossible) to get more dodge than parry.

2) The graph above suggests that there is a dramatic difference between reforging with one strat over another. But there isn't. The difference is in the fraction of percentage points. If you went over the logs from two different tanks with different reforge strategies, the RNG in the fight would have a greater impact on the logs than their reforge strategy. You wouldn't be able to "detect" the difference. (Not to say that there isn't a theoretical difference, or that you shouldn't try to optimize your character).

The comment about the same reforge pattern is this:
If I reforge for the ideal ratio in the graph (2 second swing speed) I'm reforging out of parry and into dodge. This reforge is identical when I were to aim for a 1:1 ratio. The justification may be different: but the result is identical.

3) The premise is this:
a) Unblocked hits kill tanks. Getting those off the table is your number one priority (1:1 ratio accomplishes that fastest).
b) Hold the Line provides bonus chance to critically block. You must have already blocked the hit to gain the chance at the benefit.
c) If unblocked hits are off the table, 30% blocked hits are now the largest hit you take, and the most likely cause of your death.
d) Now the unattainable goal is to get non-crit blocked hits off the table. This is done through gaining avoidance and gaining crit block
e) Parry provides both (and our parry:dodge ratio is on the low end for maximum damage reduction as we were aiming for 1:1, the only way to go is up)

kopcap
11-13-2011, 08:08 AM
1) Pretty sure I saw paladins with higher dodge, and I think I remember myself being able to surpass 1:1, or at least come very close, after raid buffs when I was finishing CTC.

2) I still don't understand. Obv you can't see anything on the logs because the sample size is laughable. Hence the graph. You can't just say that its meaningless, you have to substantiate it with either a better theory or a sim.

2.1) Graph is fully raid buffed. So no, the result is different.

3) Here is the thing your missing. If you push parry, you push increasing DRs, you push gaps in CTC, which you have to patch with mastery rating. Which for all practical purposes translates into stamina, as they are all corelated, you can't push one without hurting all others. Following your logic, parry is warriors best stat in the game and we should stack it above all. Well, stack parry while keeping CTC on the dot, same thing.

What the graph shows is how good HtL is. That at some numbers HtL is able to push parry weight above other stats. The margin where HtL boosts parry higher than normal, where it makes sense to sacrifice more rating than you would at 1:1 ratio.

Delius
11-13-2011, 11:20 AM
I have a human warrior tank, and I have recently taken a break from the game, only a couple of months though. I have 1 question, back in BC, Dodge used to be one of the most important stats. I know that currently it is Mastery, but why is this?
I always used to favour Avoidance and I still cant work out why we drop avoidance for block.
My current stats are approx, 13% Dodge, 16% Parry and 57% Block. Can anyone suggest what I should be trying to achieve please?

Tengenstein
11-13-2011, 12:51 PM
For a start Block doesn't suffer diminishing returns, Warriors actually get increasing returns from it. Stacking both avoidances you'll soon run into harsh diminishing return territory where you aren't really getting alot of percentage for your ratings. heavily stacking one will just exacerbate this

You want to have a combined Dodge Block Parry and Miss chance on your character sheet of 102.4% or as close to it as possible so as as to take a few Unblocked hits as possible

Booi
11-13-2011, 03:16 PM
1) Pretty sure I saw paladins with higher dodge, and I think I remember myself being able to surpass 1:1, or at least come very close, after raid buffs when I was finishing CTC.
Paladins also have the freedom to reforge out of mastery, which affords them some room on rating ratios.


2) I still don't understand. Obv you can't see anything on the logs because the sample size is laughable. Hence the graph. You can't just say that its meaningless, you have to substantiate it with either a better theory or a sim.
I didn't say it was meaningless. And like the EH argument, you lose out on sims. You would take more damage, but smoother damage. Even in the early days avoidance was less damage taken than taking mastery, and yet we stacked mastery: not because it is ahead on any sims.

Do we even have an accurate healing model to use in these type of situations?


2.1) Graph is fully raid buffed. So no, the result is different.
Then aim for the 1:1 ratio with raid buffs. The result is the same (at least on my toon).


3) Here is the thing your missing. If you push parry, you push increasing DRs, you push gaps in CTC, which you have to patch with mastery rating. Which for all practical purposes translates into stamina, as they are all corelated, you can't push one without hurting all others. Following your logic, parry is warriors best stat in the game and we should stack it above all. Well, stack parry while keeping CTC on the dot, same thing.
I am suggesting that in the rating comparisons, while unhittable, that parry is your best stat: yes.



What the graph shows is how good HtL is. That at some numbers HtL is able to push parry weight above other stats. The margin where HtL boosts parry higher than normal, where it makes sense to sacrifice more rating than you would at 1:1 ratio.
And all I'm saying is that doing so sacrifices combat table coverage. Which it does. And since unblocked hits are equivalent to crushing blows, why take more when you can take less?

TankerTom
11-14-2011, 02:37 AM
Hmm, just put on DPS gear... not just expertise/hit, but everything. I do 5-mans in almost all DPS gear except my shield & weapon. At appropriate iLvls and a moderately competent healer, you don't need the survival stats and you will do 30k+ dps on trash pulls.

Just remember to go back to normal sets for tough bosses (or raid night).

You are the guy nobody wants to have as a tank.

kopcap
11-14-2011, 08:39 AM
Paladins also have the freedom to reforge out of mastery, which affords them some room on rating ratios.So does any geared warrior, and cheaper. Checked in BiS, we can have more dodge rating than parry with full "into mastery" reforging by just juggling avoidance ratings.


And like the EH argument, you lose out on sims.Not sure, what argument and what sims?


You would take more damage, but smoother damage. Even in the early days avoidance was less damage taken than taking mastery, and yet we stacked mastery: not because it is ahead on any sims.This is a bad example. First, mastery had increasing returns, avoidance is diminishing. Second, by pushing parry after unhittable you actually increase the proportion of normal blocks on the table, but using more HtL to compensate. Third, you suggest to rely on an RNG that has under 20% to proc because its smoother? Yes, high uptime, but there will easily be 10-15 second stretches with no HtL buff. But thats ok. Issue is the higher you stack parry, the more expensive it gets to get an extra 0.01% of HtL uptime. The graph shows you where to stop. But where do you suggest we stop? Should we push all the way even if it only means an extra 0.1% increase for HtL uptime? Where is the breaking point?


Then aim for the 1:1 ratio with raid buffs. The result is the same (at least on my toon).I think we lost each other. 1:1 is not what the graph suggests, it can't be the same.


I am suggesting that in the rating comparisons, while unhittable, that parry is your best stat: yes.Do you see that parry at 1000 rating is not the same as parry at 5000 rating? And that it affects HtL accordingly?

Besides, you seem to be going hard at dodge on Armory. I am confused.

Booi
11-14-2011, 10:22 AM
Avoiding more semantic rubbish:

All that I'm saying is that:
1) We stacked mastery for combat table coverage, more damage, but smoother damage.
2) Following the HtL generated ratios for damage reduction contradicts the foundation of our gearing strategy (Before unhittable).

TankerTom
11-14-2011, 04:58 PM
There seems to be a little cartesian science here so let me ask simply, what should I do about the following numbers?

Parry 2038
Dodge 2151
Mastery 1793

I think that the answer is to move some of my reforged dodge to parry so as to get a tad more parry than dodge.

Tengenstein
11-14-2011, 06:43 PM
Get a crapton more mastery from somwhere! why is your mastery so low?

TankerTom
11-15-2011, 05:26 AM
I have been following reforge recommendations from askmrrobot.com and Pawn (addon).

Should I move Parry and Dodge to mastery if able?

TankerTom
11-15-2011, 05:50 AM
If so, that would put me at:
Parry: 1808
Dodge: 1819
Mastery: 2355

Dreadski
11-15-2011, 06:41 AM
What do the numbers look like if you leave Parry alone and only reforge Dodge to Mastery?

sifuedition
11-15-2011, 07:31 AM
I suspect you have fallen into the item level trap. Much of the 365-378 tank gear is avoidance+threat and I think you must have lost a lot of tank stats by always taking the higher item level. The amount and balance of those three tank stats seems way off.

TankerTom
11-15-2011, 08:50 AM
I suspect you have fallen into the item level trap. Much of the 365-378 tank gear is avoidance+threat and I think you must have lost a lot of tank stats by always taking the higher item level. The amount and balance of those three tank stats seems way off.
Not even close.
Unbreakable Guardian
Blockade's Lost Shield
Thundercall
Helm of the Proud
Fireheart Necklace
Sunburnt Pauldrons
Mantle of Patience
Chestguard of the Molten Giant
Bracers of Regal Force
Earthen Handguards
Hardened Elementium Girdle
Earthen Legguards
Pyrelord Greaves
Seal of the Petrified Pumpkin
Ring of the Battle Anthem
Brawler's Trophy
Bedrock Talisman

TankerTom
11-15-2011, 08:52 AM
What do the numbers look like if you leave Parry alone and only reforge Dodge to Mastery?

Parry 2038
Dodge 1819
Mastery 2125

sifuedition
11-15-2011, 10:12 AM
The 359 rep boots are better than the pyrelord greaves. That is an example of what I mean.

By the same token, the pumpkin ring is a bad choice. If you are going to use a dps piece for filler, it should have at least mastery on it.

Keep the cloak you have even if you unlock the 378 rep one.

The armor trinket is way under budget. You just don't get anywhere close to enough extra armor to make armor trinkets attractive. The 333 impetuous query is better. Try to get the TB trinket or Throngus' Finger or Porcelin Crab.

TankerTom
11-15-2011, 10:48 AM
Error on the ring, it is Felsen's Ring of Resolve. I will have the mats for the JC ring later today.

I don't have access to the rep boots yet. That may happen today as well. I don't have the 40K gold or I'd go after the Mirrored boots.

I replaced my impetuous query with the Bedrock Talisman on the recommendation of a few other sites. My regular healer noticed the difference. Yes, I had a macro tied to use it. IN 2 more days I will have the Moonwell Phial. I'm on the lookout for the crab or finger, believe me! :)

All in all, my regular healer (my GM) has not had any great difficulty healing me through Heroics and we only had 2 deaths in ZA. Was a GREAT group though!

klausi
11-15-2011, 11:18 AM
40k for Mirroed boots? All they need is a crafter + 3 chaos orbs (5k for the orbs and having the recipe maximum) and 4 living ember. Those should be rather low right now after so many month of firelands and pugs clearing 6/7 easily (sell for 300g each on my server nowadays, shouldn't be much higher than 1k everywhere else). If they are overpriced on your server for whatever reason just run firelands one time on an alt (raidlead yourself) and declare 4 living ember as saved/locked if your guild can't help you out.


My regular healer noticed the difference.
Honestly i can't notice the difference with just the exchange of one item. Regulary it's proper cc/interrupts/reflects/stuns that'll make noticeable differences in your damage taken, eg having a mage sheeping those nasty casters you can't reach easily or that rogue spending his combopoints on stuns instead of a lousy eviscerate.

6000 total combined avoidance/mitigation rating.. your 'Parry: 1808 Dodge: 1819 Mastery: 2355' looks best to me. That should be enough to get "blockcapped" during shieldblock (requiring 77.4% ctc).

TankerTom
11-15-2011, 11:33 AM
You pay 5K for 3 orbs? Damn, I only pay 1.5K for 5!!!

Ok, I fixed the ring issue and reforged. I also adjusted my gems and here are the results:

Parry 2022
Dodge 2010
Mastery 2129

Unhit changed from 82.85 to 85.01

TankerTom
11-15-2011, 11:40 AM
6000 total combined avoidance/mitigation rating.. your 'Parry: 1808 Dodge: 1819 Mastery: 2355' looks best to me. That should be enough to get "blockcapped" during shieldblock (requiring 77.4% ctc).

How/where did you get those numbers? Straight off the gear?

Dreadski
11-15-2011, 12:48 PM
The 359 rep boots are better than the pyrelord greaves. That is an example of what I mean.

The difference is minimal, really. You can reforge probably about 80 dodge rating to mastery and they'll be practically the same, fractions of a percent different.

klausi
11-16-2011, 08:24 PM
How/where did you get those numbers? Straight off the gear?
Haven't seen a link to your armory yet, it's just about the entry gear level values i still had in mind from the beginning of that expansion. 1800 dodge and parry are ~ 29% combined avoidance and 2300 mastery equals to roughly 50% block. As said before if possible sacrifice some of your avoidance values (parry + dodge) to increase your mitigation (mastery), 1500 parry + 1500 dodge + 3000 mastery beat 2000 of each any day.


The difference is minimal, really. You can reforge probably about 80 dodge rating to mastery and they'll be practically the same, fractions of a percent different.
He's right, at high avoidance values (combined 4500+) it's still only a ~ 0.25% difference in ctc.

TankerTom
11-22-2011, 03:12 AM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/borean-tundra/Kerrunch/simple

I (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/borean-tundra/Kerrunch/simple) have been running dps and the armory takes a while to update. I just switched back to my tanking set.

Thanks to the information here I have made my healer's life easier. She has noted that I need a lot less attention because I take less damage.