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Kysumu
09-07-2011, 11:13 AM
I currently am gearing both a pally and a druid tank. I enjoy playing them both very much, though there are definate differences in their playstyles and capabilities. But, I do feel like I enjoy the pally jut a bit more. My guild is also gearing up with me and we are actually very close to start raiding (we are a new guild, just to be clear). I am already tanking trolls with my guildies, and will be one of the main tanks for the guild. My friend will be the other tank. He plays a pally.

My questions are- Would having two pally tanks in a raid be viable?

Would having a pally and a druid tank be so much better than two pally tanks?
(if two pally tanks are even viable)

theodisius
09-07-2011, 11:41 AM
Blizzard have tried to make all four types of tanks equally capable of doing the content, so I don't think you would have any problems having two of the same.

Paladin tanks in particular are quite powerful at the moment and I can't think of a fight in where I feel gimped by playing one. I tank with another pally more often than not.

You will probably have more competition for drops, but that's a price worth paying to play the class you prefer.

Loganisis
09-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Unless you're going to be pushing bleeding edge progresion in 4.3 in a 10m, I don't see any reason why 2 pally tanks wouldn't be viable. highly competative 10m night want more distribution, but 25m or playing to have fun and down what bosses you can, it won't matter.

Ion
09-07-2011, 12:02 PM
They totally cancel each other out.

Totally.

leethaxor
09-07-2011, 12:53 PM
Bleeding edge of progression:
Pally Pally would gear slower then pally druid. You would have to split all tank plate loot between the two of them, and if you came to harsh gear check it might be more difficult.

Also druids just feel like they bring a decent amount of things to the able. Off spec tranq can help. And stamp roar is a godsent when used correctly.

Gregasaurous
09-07-2011, 01:20 PM
My guild runs Warrior/Pally, so i can tell you first hand, sharing loot isn't all that bad, it's the same as if you had two plate melee DPS (which we also have). Generally what we do is we look at our stats before a boss fight and decide which peice is going to benefit us the most. (In FL some bosses have two very good tank peices. I think one of them might even have three.) So basically you decide beforehand who's going to get what if it drops, and if you get your item, then the next good boss drop automatically goes to the other tank. If it's a fight where there's only one good peice dropping then it could go one of three ways.
1) The person with a lower equipped item level will automatically get it to keep you balanced.
2) The person who is going to more likely tanking the single tank fights (Lord R./Majordomo/Baeleroc*) will recieve the item first. *Baeleroc can be tanked as a one tank or two tank fight.
3) You just roll on it.
When you guys get to your tier and you will have multiple people rolling for it though, you will be banging your head on your keyboard.

Theotherone
09-07-2011, 01:36 PM
If the Pally's cancel out, does that mean the Arcane mage who blew all his cooldowns on the pull and is spamming Arcane Blast becomes the tank?

Fetzie
09-07-2011, 02:04 PM
If the Pally's cancel out, does that mean the Arcane mage who blew all his cooldowns on the pull and is spamming Arcane Blast becomes the tank?

Until the boss hits said mage :P

leethaxor
09-07-2011, 02:53 PM
Until the boss hits said mage :P
I can take two swings from heroic baleroc. As i remember it if you can survive two swings with health left you can tank (t10 logic)

Ion
09-07-2011, 04:36 PM
Bleeding edge of progression:
Pally Pally would gear slower then pally druid. You would have to split all tank plate loot between the two of them, and if you came to harsh gear check it might be more difficult.

Also druids just feel like they bring a decent amount of things to the able. Off spec tranq can help. And stamp roar is a godsent when used correctly.

I can tell you right now that there's no tank gear checks in Firelands. Our MT is still using a 359 shield (the crafted one, even) and only has a tanking one hander because there was one that could be crafted after the molten front opened up...until then she was using Soul Blade.

There are plenty of DPS checks, though.

leethaxor
09-07-2011, 05:44 PM
I can tell you right now that there's no tank gear checks in Firelands.

Our tank for last night's H alysrazor was an ilvl 364 blood DK

Also I was speaking about the bleeding edge of progression, which is over for FL.

Gregasaurous
09-07-2011, 07:00 PM
yeah, with 3 or 4 dozen guilds going 7/7 H FL, beelding edge of progression is over

klausi
09-08-2011, 08:42 AM
My guild runs Warrior/Pally, so i can tell you first hand, sharing loot isn't all that bad, it's the same as if you had two plate melee DPS (which we also have).
We had a total of 9 dedicated tank drops (1 shield, 1 trinket, 1 sword, 1 helmet, 1 shoulder, 1 belt, 1 shoe, 2 chests) this tier. Without tier tokens and valor gear we'd still be running in 372. We sharded several leather loot on the other hand over 76 bosses. Luck, "RNG"? If you feel comfortable tanking on a druid i'd bring him over a second plate wearer any day for our lineup (zero agi-leather wearer and only one hunter conquering for loot). Just to increase the odds of distributing the loot :)


yeah, with 3 or 4 dozen guilds going 7/7 H FL, beelding edge of progression is over
Those numbers will climb now any given day, after the nerf on Ragnaros we saw the kill numbers skyrocketing from 58 to 84 over night. Given that most eu-guilds only got to work on him after clearing 6/7 his very ID we'll see another huge bumb tonight. Sinestra only got killed 1046 times before the new tier content was released and it's still a lot of time for all "semi-hardcore-progression" guilds to catch up until patch 4.3 will be deployed.

Edit: tier 12 was released on 29th of July - until today that's 40 days worth of raiding and already 84 kills.
tier 11 content was cleared for the first time on 24th of January, until march 5th (40 days afterwards) only 38 guilds manged to kill all 13 bosses. You might argue about the numbers of additional bosses you have to beat so comparing isn't that easy but Ragnaros is still a HUGE step up over Sinestra (10m) and Al'Akir (25m).

Loganisis
09-08-2011, 08:47 AM
It's actually not the number of guilds that have killed a boss, it's how long loot has been available. Firelands loot has been avaialble for what, 8 weeks, 9 weeks now? Bleeding edge is over because of that, not because of how many guilds have killed him. Now, with so many guilds farming heroic firelands gear for so long, it's all about execution, not gear. Many guilds were geared enough for H:Rags, they weren't executing well enough for H:Rags.

If 7 weeks ago Paragon can down Rags with 1 week of normal firelands and 1 week of heroic firelands (or was it 2 weeks of heroic?) - 7 weeks later, it's not really going to be the gear that is holding back the guilds that have been working on Rags for 5 weeks.

swelt
09-08-2011, 09:56 AM
No matter what the bleeding edge is doing, the OP is in a guild that is literally just levelling up, so there are worlds apart between the information he needs and the concerns of the world top guilds. That said, what's true in the top end does have relevance for all 10 man guilds: raid comp matters.

2 paladin tanks alone is no big problem. If you ended up with a raid comp that also had 5 ret paladins for dps and 3 holy paladins healing, you'd find any kind of raid content had 'special challenges' resulting from your unorthodox comp. You can play around with a tool like http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/ to see what kind of buffs/debuffs your likely future raid comp will have. If it looks like you won't have a combat rez, or a 5% crit buff, or a sunder armor equivalent, or a bleed debuff etc... then that's one difference you face by choosing to be a paladin rather than a feral. Of course, 2 paladin tanks means blessing of might + kings, and 2 divine guardian raid cooldowns - very useful, especially considering recent raid encounters.

On a similar note, gear progression matters. If you had the 10 paladin raid, you'd be destroying all the mail, leather and cloth drops. If you want to be able to have both DPS and Tank specs (which you probably will, given there are 1 tank fights) then the number of players chasing plate drops is a factor to keep in mind. On the other hand, if you had planned to have a rogue and a hunter, you might fight competing for agility gear more of an issue for the feral. A little competition is no problem, but if you are really imbalanced then it could be.

If you are going to be super hardcore, these factors are very big deals. But even if you decide to be more casual in your approach to raiding, the content will be easier with a nicely balanced group.

Theotherone
09-08-2011, 10:34 AM
2 paladin tanks alone is no big problem. If you ended up with a raid comp that also had 5 ret paladins for dps and 3 holy paladins healing, you'd find any kind of raid content had 'special challenges' resulting from your unorthodox comp.

We did this (an all pally raid) in WoLK for shits and giggles once, got to Saurfang.

Tengenstein
09-08-2011, 01:54 PM
We tried the same with warriors. We didn't get quite as far.

Theotherone
09-08-2011, 01:57 PM
It was fun what we could come up with durring the dog days of WoLK - if I had a druid I'd have tried an all Druid run; bet that would have gotten far, they had all bases covered, tank, melee, casters and heals.

Mustache
09-08-2011, 02:01 PM
The meter makes me laugh. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW-MxnCPskA

Tengenstein
09-08-2011, 02:03 PM
Shove failbot on, get a bottle of your favourite spirits, jump on an alt, every time you failed you had to take a shot. Everytime you got loot you had to take a shot, if loot gets D/Eed every one takes a shot. Good times.

leethaxor
09-08-2011, 02:41 PM
Shove failbot on, get a bottle of your favourite spirits, jump on an alt, every time you failed you had to take a shot. Everytime you got loot you had to take a shot, if loot gets D/Eed every one takes a shot. Good times.
God I would be so drunk after the second boss on farm night D:

Mustache
09-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Teng, we had a variation of that in the BWL days, in a raid with 7 mages every time a mage died = shot. I blacked out during the tech packs, and passed out on the floor during chromaggus wipes - my roomate had to log my char out.

leethaxor
09-08-2011, 03:28 PM
The closest I get to making wow into a drinking game is to celebrate brewfest all week long with my roomates and buddies.

elehisie
09-08-2011, 03:53 PM
what no one else seems to care about here is the particular characteristics of both kinds of tanks.
inour guild its been completely viable (tank pair wise) to:
- Dk - DK
- DK - pally
- DK - druid
- pally - druid
depending on what group set up we have for a particular night.

but heres the catch: for a few fights where you need one tank holding the boss and the other holding adds, the best set up WE found was DK - druid, cuz 1) dk (me) and druid work together nicely and 2) druids have that swipe thing that is just awesome to keep a buncha stuff controlled.

it is not like we cant do the fights with a different set up, its just the fights with adds get that much easier to handle. so, if the druid cant come on a particular night we might just go to a different boss.

theodisius
09-09-2011, 02:51 AM
its just the fights with adds get that much easier to handle. so, if the druid cant come on a particular night we might just go to a different boss.

I am not sure what fights you are talking about nor whether bears are better at aoe, but generally speaking palatanks should not have a problem with adds. If your palatank does not glyph avenger shield and puts talent points into ranged judgement, he should be fine picking them up (especially with two taunts, potentially affecting four mobs). Holding them should not be an issue with hammer of the righteous hitting three every three seconds or so.

Tengenstein
09-09-2011, 02:58 AM
HotR no longer cleaves 3 target, its a single target hit against your target and then a Nova that hits Everything in 8 yards. Pallies are fine AoE tanks

Charon
09-12-2011, 06:24 AM
The only benefit to running two pally tanks over the pally/druid combo is if you have no ret or holy for another aura. The benefit to running the bear/pally combo would be less competition for gear (Unless you have a rogue), and for one tank fights you can go kitty without changing gear. Of course, the best benefit of all if you're not trying to smash H: Rag instantly is in playing the class you personally find more entertaining.