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Anethas
08-29-2011, 12:31 PM
I am a prot warrior ilvl 357 and currently sport 152k UB life, 2185 mastery for 20.19, 1365 dodge, 1749 parry, with 12 exp. My block, parry, dodge r 50.28, 13.94, 12.19 respectively. I have recently been running with much higher geared folks and they keep taking my aggro so do i just need to wait till i get better gear raiding or do I need to change something

Quinafoi
08-29-2011, 12:37 PM
A tank that is meant to hold aggro on a target from equal level DPS. So if you're a T11 tank, you should be able to hold aggro off of T11 DPS. That's just simple numbers. A tank that is capable of holding threat off of a DPS that does 15k isn't going to hold threat off of a DPS that does 25k. This isn't a one size fits all game. However I would question just how much they outgear you as with the recent threat buff your inability to hold aggro may indicate you have other issues.

Loganisis
08-29-2011, 12:40 PM
1. What's your spec? Do you have Deep Wounds?

2. What is your rotation? SS > Dev > Dev > Other with other being Rend > CB > SW. Although replacing a Dev with a TC to refresh rend is valuable if you get a good string of SnB procs.

3. What is your opener? Heroic Throw -> Charge + SB + Recklessness -> SS -> Go?

Talking about your defensive stats when you have threat issues (and with the 66% threat increase, the issue is your ability useage, not gear level) is like giving us your gas mileage and asking us if that is why you don't accelerate quickly. They are only slightly connected.

Anethas
08-29-2011, 02:50 PM
1. What's your spec? Do you have Deep Wounds?

2. What is your rotation? SS > Dev > Dev > Other with other being Rend > CB > SW. Although replacing a Dev with a TC to refresh rend is valuable if you get a good string of SnB procs.

3. What is your opener? Heroic Throw -> Charge + SB + Recklessness -> SS -> Go?

Talking about your defensive stats when you have threat issues (and with the 66% threat increase, the issue is your ability useage, not gear level) is like giving us your gas mileage and asking us if that is why you don't accelerate quickly. They are only slightly connected.

Depending on the situation i heroic throw/heroic leap/charge SS>TC>cleave>SW and after that i stick rend ub there and hit revenge when it procs.

My main problem was yesterday when i only had like 6 exp and i did some reforging got it up to 12 and it hasn't been so bad

Tengenstein
08-29-2011, 02:57 PM
You shouldn't need expertise as a tank. Its crutch for covering poor play style.

WHere are you losing aggro? single target? aoe? withing the first 30 seocnds, after the forst 30 seconds.

Anethas
08-29-2011, 03:00 PM
heh usually early on but with multiple targets..i think its mostly due to them just attacking whatever they feel like attacking but i am pretty sure i am a little to blame

Anethas
08-29-2011, 03:02 PM
they r mostly in firelands content currently about to move on to heroic

Anethas
08-29-2011, 03:04 PM
I also recently respecced deep wounds out which saw my dps drop like 1500

Loganisis
08-29-2011, 04:13 PM
1500 DPS drop is now a 7500 TPS drop....


Depending on the situation i heroic throw/heroic leap/charge SS>TC>cleave>SW and after that i stick rend ub there and hit revenge when it procs.

My main problem was yesterday when i only had like 6 exp and i did some reforging got it up to 12 and it hasn't been so bad

1. Like Teng said, Exp is not needed.

2. Yeah, you're doing it wrong. 6 GCDs, minimum, before you can spread Rend around via TC? You're going to struggle to keep AoE threat if you don't have rend rolling on your targets.

Charge>Rend>TC>SW> as needed.

Marking targets for kill priority and popping a few SS on the top target isn't bad either.

Also, Retaliation - pretty decent for AoE.

Anethas
08-29-2011, 04:54 PM
I recently rediscovered retaliation as well...what happened to this anyways was it only available for battle stance or something?

yeah i totally see what u r saying about rend i am

Tengenstein
08-29-2011, 06:24 PM
heh usually early on but with multiple targets..i think its mostly due to them just attacking whatever they feel like attacking but i am pretty sure i am a little to blame

meh If you're just AoEing trash down who cares...Vig the other tank and taunt whore you way good. Do as Logan says and you should be good.

swelt
08-30-2011, 09:29 AM
I have recently been running with much higher geared folks and they keep taking my aggro so do i just need to wait till i get better gear raiding or do I need to change something

Can you clarify when you are having this problem? Are you tanking heroic dungeons with firelands geared dps? Are you starting to raid? Is it trash or bosses that you are losing threat on? Are you losing threat on the main target (lets call him 'skull') or on other targets?

I think a lot of the other responses have assumed a set of answers to those questions and based their advice on them. I think there might be some confusion.

Gregasaurous
08-30-2011, 02:07 PM
Ok, i would say first, post your armory link (if you don't mind) that way we can see if there are any obvious problems in spec. Secondly, describe a exact situation where you would msot commonly lose aggro and what you're doing when it happens.

Anethas
08-31-2011, 07:10 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/shadowsong/Anethas/simple

srry should have done that first

Taelas
08-31-2011, 07:23 PM
If you're still having threat issues, I'd change your spec to something like this (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Zc02!kaY!ag!YSkTeedggQ!aYcVfRjPM).

Anethas
08-31-2011, 08:44 PM
See i have noticed people dont put points in blitz. Dont u have trouble with dps pulling your aggro because u cant tc right away. That is pretty close to how I had it but I decided to pick up vig for raids. I have been thinking of dropping it just because i don't really see that much benefit as compared with helping me push a little more damage

Loganisis
08-31-2011, 11:34 PM
See i have noticed people dont put points in blitz. Dont u have trouble with dps pulling your aggro because u cant tc right away. That is pretty close to how I had it but I decided to pick up vig for raids. I have been thinking of dropping it just because i don't really see that much benefit as compared with helping me push a little more damage

o_O You don't need blitz for TC. It's a complete waste of talent points except for a very margial benefit, possibly, in heroics.

You need rage? Shout -> Charge. All the rage you need. Plus you should proximity aggro any mobs, so you should then start taking some damage.

Work in heroic throw on the pull (Shout -> HT -> SB/Charge -> Gogogo) or Shout->Heroic Leap for damage if you need it.

Blitz = really worthless outside of PvP

Taelas
09-01-2011, 03:05 AM
No, it isn't worthless. Blitz can help if you charge into a pack and immediately Rend+TC, and while the stun is small, it can interrupt casting.

It doesn't help much in raids, however. The stun is mostly useless, as most mobs are immune to it, and while it still helps with groups, there are much more important talents.

Tengenstein
09-01-2011, 04:14 AM
Baseline shouts give twenty rage, Charge gives 15, Rend costs 15, Thunder Clap costs 20. You have enough rage to immediatly Rend>TC. Additionally while Blitz does give you rage, a stunned mob doesn't melee thus cutting off your main source of incoming rage. Blitz isn't actually extra rage, its to make up for the rage lost due to not being melee'd.

Taking it for the Additional Stun is the only reason to take it, and to be honest is kinda superflous, we have enough stuns already for PVE encounters.

Taelas
09-01-2011, 06:17 AM
So you add a Shield Slam or a Cleave immediately afterwards. Extra rage at the start of a fight is not bad, even if it isn't worth much. As I said, it's a 5-man talent, not a raiding talent.

Tengenstein
09-01-2011, 07:06 AM
It's crap. It doesn't give you rage at the start of the fight because it stuns the mobs; Stunned mobs don't melee, the vast majority of your rage, and all of your vengeance comes from taking damage, so if rage on the pull is an issue you don't want to stunning mobs. It stunts your vengeance gain and it stunts your rage gain.

Loganisis
09-01-2011, 09:05 AM
So you add a Shield Slam or a Cleave immediately afterwards. Extra rage at the start of a fight is not bad, even if it isn't worth much. As I said, it's a 5-man talent, not a raiding talent.


I have recently been running with much higher geared folks and they keep taking my aggro

"I need moar threat against better geared players but I'm not going to give up a threatless talent" That's what I'm reading.

You don't need Blitz. You don't need the rage. If you're having aggro issues, Blitz isn't solving them at all.

Are you marking kill priorities, are you telling DPS to wait until they see TC (I still do both and I'm in 370+ tank gear). Are you prioritizing higher threat abilities?

Blitz, even in a dungeon, isn't buying you what you think it is.

Anethas
09-01-2011, 09:24 AM
After reading these posts i am logging to respec blitz out...i had never really looked at it like that but u r totally right. I wouldnt call it worthless but it is probably causing me alot of my problems especially if i were to throw a shockwave in there after a charge and i have to wait what like 8 sec before i start taking dam. That is if the mobs r stunnable.

Gregasaurous
09-02-2011, 05:26 PM
Ok, i just looked at your spec and it looks good, except, you have gag order. Now i know this is a really nice ability to have, it gives you more utility, and can be convienant for grabbing a caster. It's also a comodity that would be better spent in Sheild Spec. THis isn't a MUST HAVE talent for any damage mitiagtion, but it is losely for threat and damage output. Why? The rage it gives you allows for more HS.

Taelas
09-05-2011, 06:09 PM
"I need moar threat against better geared players but I'm not going to give up a threatless talent" That's what I'm reading.
Don't misquote people; that second quote was from the original poster, not me.


You don't need Blitz. You don't need the rage. If you're having aggro issues, Blitz isn't solving them at all.
When did I say it was? I said it wasn't a pointless or useless talent and I said it's a 5-man talent.

Blitz is additional control in 5-mans, and that's pretty much it, but it is still a talent which adds something.

Loganisis
09-05-2011, 07:25 PM
No point in editing the posts - I just screwed the pooch. It wasn't intentional. I dunno why I screwed up the quotations, bottomline is I did.