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Jeffro
08-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Hey there Tankspot,

I've been away from WoW from a long time now and just gotten back a week.
I'm doing best on gearing up again so I can raid again.
I would love some advice on how it is looking now. I don't know what to get now from JP and I'm still grinding VP for t12 chest I guess.

I'm doing all HC's and my FL/Tharezane dailes.

So what am I lacking? What raids could I consider to join at this point?

Any advice would be nice to get :)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/grim-batol/Zeffuro/simple

T (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/grim-batol/Zeffuro/simple)hanks in advance!

Loganisis
08-21-2011, 03:50 PM
Not a pally... but wouldn't the T12 tier legs be better than the T12 tier chest in your case, at least for the first item? so you can keep your 2pc T11 for as long as possible?

Sebadoh
08-21-2011, 04:13 PM
The glaring issue is that green trinket. Try to grab the Tol Barad trinket (http://www.wowhead.com/item=62466) (best option, the resist cooldown is fantastic) or something from a 5-man, like Porcelain Crab (http://www.wowhead.com/item=56280) or Leaden Despair (http://www.wowhead.com/item=56347).

You're also missing a couple enchants and need to get your Mining to 525.

49% block is pretty low. Your stat priority looks like this: Mastery >> Dodge/Parry >> Hit/Expertise. Stamina is useful, get some of it but I wouldn't recommend gemming much of it aside from green gems in blue sockets. You also want to keep your Dodge/Parry relatively even, but this is secondary to stacking Mastery.

Your spec looks okay (I haven't seen the math on Grand Crusader versus Reckoning, but I have a hunch that GC is a bit better). Don't glyph Consecrate though, and definitely do not glyph Divine Protection outside of a handful of raid encounters (most damage you take is physical).

All of the T11 raids have upgrades for you, so pug them if you can.


Not a pally... but wouldn't the T12 tier legs be better than the T12 tier chest in your case, at least for the first item? so you can keep your 2pc T11 for as long as possible?

The 2-piece bonuses don't make much difference outside of Alysrazor (now that threat is lolz) but the T12 legs and T11 chest are perfectly itemized (avoidance/mastery) making them much more attractive than the T12 chest, which is dodge/parry.

Jeffro
08-21-2011, 04:38 PM
The glaring issue is that green trinket. Try to grab the Tol Barad trinket (http://www.wowhead.com/item=62466) (best option, the resist cooldown is fantastic) or something from a 5-man, like Porcelain Crab (http://www.wowhead.com/item=56280) or Leaden Despair (http://www.wowhead.com/item=56347).

You're also missing a couple enchants and need to get your Mining to 525.

49% block is pretty low. Your stat priority looks like this: Mastery >> Dodge/Parry >> Hit/Expertise. Stamina is useful, get some of it but I wouldn't recommend gemming much of it aside from green gems in blue sockets. You also want to keep your Dodge/Parry relatively even, but this is secondary to stacking Mastery.

Your spec looks okay (I haven't seen the math on Grand Crusader versus Reckoning, but I have a hunch that GC is a bit better). Don't glyph Consecrate though, and definitely do not glyph Divine Protection outside of a handful of raid encounters (most damage you take is physical).

All of the T11 raids have upgrades for you, so pug them if you can.



The 2-piece bonuses don't make much difference outside of Alysrazor (now that threat is lolz) but the T12 legs and T11 chest are perfectly itemized (avoidance/mastery) making them much more attractive than the T12 chest, which is dodge/parry.

Thank you for the advice :)

Reason for missing the shoulder enchant is because I wasn't even revered with that faction but I'm farming it atm.
I do need to get the other enchant though. I missed out that one because I thought socket wouldn't stack with it.

In the terms of current gear I have, do you think I should regem some slots (been following the puissant gem trend) and reforge. If yes what would be the best choices there now, should I give up on a lot of parry/dodge for mastery?

I knew my spec wasn't optimal yet because it's like a 1 talent difference. Was just forgetting to change it around all the time.

Yeah I should switch around some glyphs. Do people constantly reglyph now between trash and bosses? Because I really like unglyphed AS for trash and AOE dmg.

I should start doing Tol Borad, ty for the heads up but I should also try to get one of those other trinkets to drop.

Green trinket is bad but I do need stam trinket.

Would people still invite me to pugs? Last time I saw trade they were asking 360 ilvl with achievement for BoT :/

Zee786
08-21-2011, 06:04 PM
They nerfed T11 to the ground so even a 333 geared person can finish it we have done it many times with our low geared players to gear them up. Just make sure u know the tactics and u should be fine.

Jeffro
08-21-2011, 10:00 PM
Just did some reforging on my gear just now after doing my FL dailies. Block is a lot better now :)

Bigbad
08-22-2011, 01:14 AM
Looks almost decent. Missing shoulder/hands enchant, easy upgrades would be shoulders from ZA, justice/valor relic, boe bracers if you have the money/alt for it.

As far as trinkets go i run a stamina one + mastery one as warrior but paladins run double mastery trinkets alot for unhittable. Tol barad got 2 mastery trinkets, firelands dailies got a nice stamina trinket and the Tier11 stamina trinkets are easy to get as well since it has been nerfed. Can get 346 trinkets from regular heroics until you get better.

Can reforge chest/hands parry>dodge to keep them equal.

Jeffro
08-22-2011, 09:21 AM
Looks almost decent. Missing shoulder/hands enchant, easy upgrades would be shoulders from ZA, justice/valor relic, boe bracers if you have the money/alt for it.

As far as trinkets go i run a stamina one + mastery one as warrior but paladins run double mastery trinkets alot for unhittable. Tol barad got 2 mastery trinkets, firelands dailies got a nice stamina trinket and the Tier11 stamina trinkets are easy to get as well since it has been nerfed. Can get 346 trinkets from regular heroics until you get better.

Can reforge chest/hands parry>dodge to keep them equal.

Wouldn't it be better to use my Valor Points for a t12 item instead of the cheap 700 relic, I only have 980 vp now and it would set me back an entire week meaning I need 3 more weeks to farm one tier piece...

I am doing my fireland dailies although going very slow.

I'll take the reforge suggestions ty :)

BoE bracers are 10k+? Don't have that much ;(

Bigbad
08-22-2011, 10:28 AM
Tierpieces will be a bigger upgrade then the relic yeah. 3x980=2940 so could buy 1 2200 piece + relic in 3 weeks, but buying the relic would mean delaying the next piece one week. Its the only option for a relic while there are multiple options for other slots, just go with what's the biggest upgrade.

Bracer prices are dropping down to 7k on my realm so maybe later on :)

Jeffro
08-22-2011, 03:50 PM
Bleh, couldn't do most of TB today, alliance when I wanted to :(

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Grim%20Batol/Zeffuro/

S (http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Grim%20Batol/Zeffuro/)eems like I got up again

I've spent the evening mining and putting 2k gold into finishing blacksmithing.

I think the itemisation is very close now and is pretty good :)

I should probably get in a raid now but people are still asking 365 + achieve bleh. Will need to wait till guild maybe wants to do it with me :)


I did forgot to reglyph though. Still need to work that out :)

Fetzie
08-23-2011, 03:09 AM
In your position I would abuse human psychology:

Look for PuGs that are only needing a tank, or a tank and a dps. They are likely to have been looking for a tnak for a while, and thus may drop the 365 requirement if you can impress upon than you know what you are doing.

Tne thing that may get you turned down though is the green trinket. It is quite a good trinket for the level and quality, but a PuG raid leader will see it and say no. Are you running stonecore heroic and throne of the tides heroic for the trinkets from those two instances?

Jeffro
08-23-2011, 03:53 AM
In your position I would abuse human psychology:

Look for PuGs that are only needing a tank, or a tank and a dps. They are likely to have been looking for a tnak for a while, and thus may drop the 365 requirement if you can impress upon than you know what you are doing.

Tne thing that may get you turned down though is the green trinket. It is quite a good trinket for the level and quality, but a PuG raid leader will see it and say no. Are you running stonecore heroic and throne of the tides heroic for the trinkets from those two instances?

Well basicly I'm spamming random heroics for rep farm and the call to war tank awards :)

I should try to do stonecore/throne of the tides specificly and try my luck (I'm not really lucky there).

And I really want a stam trinket... Doesn't Throne only drop threat trink? The one from Stonecore is nice though.

Fetzie
08-23-2011, 03:57 AM
The Erunak squid-on-head boss drops a trinket with 200 something dodge and a mastery on hit procc, reforge the dodge to mastery.

sifuedition
08-23-2011, 09:41 AM
While I would agree that having a stam trinket in the bags is a good idea for specific fights, you seem to be a little persistant about it. Stam is not the goal like it was. You should be persueing unhittable. Since mastery is not subject to diminishing returns, it is your best stat to stack.

Crittable
08-24-2011, 03:59 PM
While I would agree that having a stam trinket in the bags is a good idea for specific fights, you seem to be a little persistant about it. Stam is not the goal like it was. You should be persueing unhittable. Since mastery is not subject to diminishing returns, it is your best stat to stack.

This.

I have healed many tanks that have less health than me as a healer in heroic 5 mans and I find myself wanting to heal them more than any tank that stacks stam. Tanks no longer have to be able to take the big hits in heroic instances like they used to. As long as you avoid the mechanics of the fight that are supposed to hit hard (i.e. Ozruk's aoe damage in Stonecore), a tank can survive for quite a while. It's minimizing the damage that you take and leveling it out that is the objective of the avoidance and mastery stacking.

Toushiro
08-24-2011, 05:25 PM
It might not seem like it but the Dragonmaw Clan Rep tank boots are a much better then the ones you got on right now, you get more mastery since it has a flat mastery rating of 159 on them. You gain around 107 more mastery, which is a good bit. You really want to get the Crab from Throne of Tides it's proc is amazing, hands down one of the best pre-raid trinkets. I'm not to sure how paladins work when it comes to dodge/parry if they want to just balance % or rating, if you need to balance via rating, then the Grim Batol trinket from the 2nd Boss can help increase your parry/mastery(after reforging) since the Crab is gonna add a lot of dodge rating even after reforging.

check out
http://chardev.org/?profile=206359 - this is where just % is pretty balanced.
http://chardev.org/?profile=206364 - this has the rating balanced out, but you only gain 86 mastery in total but you get 2 346 trinkets.
http://chardev.org/?profile=206380 - 2nd link but with different meta, shoulder, bracers and belt bucket gems, has about 60 mastery gain.

Fetzie
08-25-2011, 04:42 AM
Paladins aim to balance their dodge and parry ratings when raid buffed. There is no glaring difference between dodge and parry for a paladin (we have no "HtL" to skew it).

Toushiro
08-25-2011, 07:39 AM
Paladins aim to balance their dodge and parry ratings when raid buffed. There is no glaring difference between dodge and parry for a paladin (we have no "HtL" to skew it).

well I guess, you can tell him what Link is best to look at then.

Fetzie
08-25-2011, 02:25 PM
http://chardev.org/?profile=206380

That one.

Jeffro
08-26-2011, 12:22 AM
Seems like I got some huge regemming to do then. And switch my tabard to dragonmaw again. Only thing is that my itemlvl will get set back again and my guild won't take me to firelands (even in alt runs) until I hit atleast 359 itemlvl.

I am grinding the TB and FL dailies nonstop atm but it looks like it will take me about 2 months to get exalted with Hellscream :/

Can you explain me why that metagem is better then the one I have now?

I will drop quite a bit in stamina though, I thought I need to have at least 150k hp to get raiding going?

Also thank you all for actively responding in the topic :)

Tengenstein
08-26-2011, 03:02 AM
I wouldn't quibble over Ilevel, Better boots are better boots regardless of I level, i mean would you wear some 372 boots with int/resilience and hast on to up your ilvl? no, you'd take the boots that made you the hardest to kill and easiet to heal, right?

The meta gem is better becuase it lowers your damage take by a larger amount than the armour meta. Armour has diminishing returns and every tank is quite hard into those DRs so you actually need a hell of alot of armour to actually increase the damage reduction from armour by a meaningful amount losing 2% of your armour doesn't actually decrease your damage reduction by much (IIRC its about a 0.3% damage reduction loss dependent on how much armour you have). On the other hand Blocking has no DRs what so ever , and as a block tank you should be blocking the vast majority of non avoided swings so most of the attacks against you will be decreased by an additional 1%

As to HP, I honestly don't know i managed most of T11 with less than 130k hp and never felt it was insuffient, It's just not a factor that concerns me at all. Getting full combat table coverage is worth alot more than Stam

Fetzie
08-26-2011, 03:07 AM
This (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=635167#p635167) is the maths behind the meta gem discussion if you are interested.

As for hp, I think I had around 145-150k full buffed with a stamina flask when starting out in T11.

Jeffro
08-27-2011, 06:26 PM
Finally getting into a BoT raid. Did the first 2 bosses (0 wipes on the bosses themselves), ofcourse no drops for me ;)

Gregasaurous
08-28-2011, 03:40 AM
Ok, rule of thumb, there is no such thing as a minimum health pool for raiding. Having health is one of those thing that should happen by itself and therefor you don't need to worry about it. For the most part your gemming looks good, but there are a few items (hand and waist) where the socket bonus is debateable as to wether you should follow it or gem pure mastery.
I would say with your level of mastery the molten front boots are fine until you can get the 378 craftable (this is my personal opinion and is quite debateable, just understand i am not the infinate scource of wisdom in the WoW universe). Speaking of which, i would suggest finding a good way to make money (assuming you haven't already) and look into getting yourselft the recipe for Mirrior Boots. For that you will need living embers which (depending on server) should be less than 10k gold each on the AH or from FL boss drops, this is where haveing a guild that wants to see you progress comes in handy. Also if you are unable to get into FL trash runs (something i highly recomend attempting to do) you may want to look into buying the 3 BOE tank items, 2 of them are BIS i believe (excluding heroic versions).

Jeffro
08-28-2011, 03:52 AM
Ok, rule of thumb, there is no such thing as a minimum health pool for raiding. Having health is one of those thing that should happen by itself and therefor you don't need to worry about it. For the most part your gemming looks good, but there are a few items (hand and waist) where the socket bonus is debateable as to wether you should follow it or gem pure mastery.
I would say with your level of mastery the molten front boots are fine until you can get the 378 craftable (this is my personal opinion and is quite debateable, just understand i am not the infinate scource of wisdom in the WoW universe). Speaking of which, i would suggest finding a good way to make money (assuming you haven't already) and look into getting yourselft the recipe for Mirrior Boots. For that you will need living embers which (depending on server) should be less than 10k gold each on the AH or from FL boss drops, this is where haveing a guild that wants to see you progress comes in handy. Also if you are unable to get into FL trash runs (something i highly recomend attempting to do) you may want to look into buying the 3 BOE tank items, 2 of them are BIS i believe (excluding heroic versions).

Yeah I am looking into making gold but with only mining/bs it's kinda hard to get much with all the competition. The ores don't sell that well (rate is about 250g per hour?) that would take me 4 hours to get 1k and 40 hours for 10k :/

I need myself a herb/alch alt...

Gregasaurous
08-28-2011, 04:29 AM
There are ways of making money without profesions (not including playing the AH like it's the stock market) and you can also get good income with minning, you just have to think outside the box a little.

Fetzie
08-28-2011, 04:46 AM
Daily quests give about 13g each (i think) and you can knock off 25 of them a day in about an hour (325g plus greys, greens (disenchant and sell), cloth etc). Molten Core is also quite profitable.

Gregasaurous
08-28-2011, 04:52 AM
Yep, dailies, or you can also work on you Cata Loremaster, you will get a LOT of gold out of this and it's a nice achievement. And it will help max your rep with factions if you haven't already.
Blackwing Lair as well, most servers have a good market for Elementium Ingots for people who are trying to get Thunderfury.

Toushiro
08-28-2011, 06:38 AM
Tempest Keep - The Eye. Clearing the Loot Reaver, Mage woman, Al'ar and trash is an easy 1k gold and maybe some good looking retro gear.

Tengenstein
08-28-2011, 10:47 AM
I myself am a BS/Eng, I make most of my money from running 5 mans. greed (oe D/E) on everything that drops, spend the excess JP on enchanting mats (shards and essences tend to sell well)

Jeffro
08-29-2011, 12:32 AM
Just completed Uldum for the Cata loremaster, got about 2k :)

Jeffro
09-05-2011, 05:01 AM
I've been working on my offspec as well now, my ret spec is about 354 atm: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Grim%20Batol/Zeffuro/

Y (http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Grim%20Batol/Zeffuro/)ou can also switch to protection there if you want to see it how it's geared atm.

Am I doing good and what can I do to quickly improve my ret spec to 359 as well? (and do more then 11-12k dps fully buffed ;( )

Toushiro
09-05-2011, 05:51 AM
I've been working on my offspec as well now, my ret spec is about 354 atm: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Grim Batol/Zeffuro/

Y (http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Grim Batol/Zeffuro/)ou can also switch to protection there if you want to see it how it's geared atm.

Am I doing good and what can I do to quickly improve my ret spec to 359 as well? (and do more then 11-12k dps fully buffed ;( )

There's a 359 ring you don't have :p and also from ZG final boss he has a 353 mace a 353 helm from uh, ZA I think, 359 vendor cloak and well better try and get some T11 raid drops via pug or something. Your hit is fine, but your expertise is lower then what it needs to be.

Jeffro
09-05-2011, 06:56 AM
There's a 359 ring you don't have :p and also from ZG final boss he has a 353 mace a 353 helm from uh, ZA I think, 359 vendor cloak and well better try and get some T11 raid drops via pug or something. Your hit is fine, but your expertise is lower then what it needs to be.

Yeah well the helm dropped 3 times..... All rolled away by a warrior.
The weapon hasn't dropped yet.

I'm still sceptical about the 359 cloak being better. Isn't haste still a better stat to have/reforge then the dodge?

Already done all T11 this week. Paladins get free 10 expertise with a glyph when Seal is active. So I'm exp and hit capped ;)

Bigbad
09-05-2011, 07:44 AM
Get firelands rep for cloak at friendly and belt at honored, easy upgrades for both specs. Can do a trashrun just to get rep or just regular raid. Trinkets at revered aren't that awesome but probably upgrade to what you have atm.