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Angur
08-02-2011, 10:13 AM
I have decided to kill my huge amounts of Parry into Expertise/Hit Rating. Does anyone know what the +hit rating cap is for Prot Warriors?

Thanks,

Fetzie
08-02-2011, 10:15 AM
961 hit rating and 780 expertise rating.

But why do you want to do this? All that will happen is you take more damage and only deal marginally more dps. By the way, a question like this is better suited to the HALP forum :)

Angur
08-02-2011, 10:26 AM
Unbuffed I am still sitting around 16% Parry now with 19% Expertise and 4% Hit Rating. The purpose of it is for testing :)

sifuedition
08-02-2011, 01:40 PM
If your parry is that high, then either your dodge or your mastery is likely lacking and would be the best place to put those ratings points. Parry and dodge should be as close to balanced as you can, with dodge maybe slightly higher (200 rating or so). If your parry is that high, you should have somewhere around 55-65% block. If you have neither - balanced dodge or high block%, then hit rating is still a very low priority.

That is not to say that you cannot still down bosses that way...just that you are putting more of the load on your healers than you should. Your hit rating will not lead to a significant dps difference as compared to the rest of the dps. A better raid option would be to build your tank stats high enough to replace one healer with another dps.

If this is for a heroics damage set, make sure that your expertise is at least 16 before seal of truth and use the glyph for it first. I suspect that 19% is after the seal buff. The goal would be 26 minimum (buffed) before focusing on hit. 1% hit reduces 1% miss. 1 expertise on the character sheet reduces dodge chance AND parry chance...twice as good as hit. Expertise from 26 to 52-53 will be even with hit as you will always be in front of the mob.

Dogmeat
08-02-2011, 11:51 PM
If this is for a heroics damage set, make sure that your expertise is at least 16 before seal of truth and use the glyph for it first. I suspect that 19% is after the seal buff. The goal would be 26 minimum (buffed) before focusing on hit. 1% hit reduces 1% miss. 1 expertise on the character sheet reduces dodge chance AND parry chance...twice as good as hit. Expertise from 26 to 52-53 will be even with hit as you will always be in front of the mob.
He said Prot Warrior so guessing he wont be using any Seals:) The rest is however correct, go for exp before hit, it's twice the value until 26

Grombrindal
08-03-2011, 11:49 AM
Parry and dodge should be as close to balanced as you can, with dodge maybe slightly higher (200 rating or so).

For a warrior I would say parry should be ahead of dodge rather than the other way around. This is due to the Hold the Line talent if I'm not wrong.

Baeden
08-03-2011, 12:53 PM
For a warrior I would say parry should be ahead of dodge rather than the other way around. This is due to the Hold the Line talent if I'm not wrong.

^^ This. In my experience and research, that's correct.
I was a stalwart and holdout for a long time: I liked having a good amount of hit and expertise for threat, but with the changes to vengeance and whatnot since the end of Wrath and into Cata, I've strayed from that path for EH, mitigation and avoidance as a priority. With the interrupt changes that can't miss, no matter what your hit rating is, your healers will love you more if you're not sacrificing avoidance and mitigation for a few extra DPS/TPS. Having a little expertise doesn't hurt for obvious reasons, but IMO there's no need to try and cap either one of those stats anymore. :cool:

Airowird
08-03-2011, 02:03 PM
According to my calculations, Parry should be ~200 rating above dodge for a Warrior, ignoring Windwalk

sifuedition
08-03-2011, 02:55 PM
Yes, please ignore my mistake in thinking paladin...it's my main and I must have missed it in the OP.

The math I have seen (won't take credit for it myself), for HotL, you want parry about 800 rating points above dodge (~3%).

Sorry for the warrior/paladin mistake.

Airowird
08-03-2011, 04:42 PM
You'll want Parry to be actually around 200-300 above Dodge, depending gear (& windwalk uptime), assuming regular raid buffs.
Also, (but this might just be me), I don't consider avoidance trinkets in my gearing math, so I can swap them with stamina whenever I feel like without feeling guilty for dropping SB Unhittable or creating a Dodge/Parry DR discrepency.

Ozymandius
08-05-2011, 10:46 AM
[QUOTE=Pyrea;520089]961 hit rating and 780 expertise rating.

QUOTE]

Not to be too picky but isn't it 781 expertise?

Angur
08-05-2011, 01:05 PM
Here is my warrior now:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/khadgar/Angur/simple

This week I did not notice much difference in my avoidence. My mastery still stayed the same (depending on which trinket I am using) to help mitigate damage. The advantage with my hit rating and expertise is my DPS has gone up by around 3-4k (depending on fight) as well as my threat and I do tons more damage on the Alysrazor adds (about 50k - now doing 115-120k damage) on 25man fights.

I know as a tank my job is to avoid and mitigate as much damage as possible. However Mastery is the most important stat and I am mitigating damage. I did not see a huge decerease between 15% Parry and 20% Parry. My dodge went down maybe 2%.

Fetzie
08-05-2011, 01:05 PM
Not to be too picky but isn't it 781 expertise?

Depends on how you round :)

Ozymandius
08-05-2011, 01:48 PM
Well, the reason I bring it up is because the way Blizzard used to round 780 expertise is the same as 751 expertise, both give 6.25% reduction to dodge and parry. It was not until you were OVER the 780.xx number that you got the extra .25% reduction in dodge and parry (and therefore being soft capped). Is this the case or has something changed?

Fetzie
08-06-2011, 02:24 AM
As far as I know the actual system behind expertise works in exactly the same way as any other stat, but the way it is displayed is different.

Airowird
08-06-2011, 09:19 AM
As far as I know the actual system behind expertise works in exactly the same way as any other stat, but the way it is displayed is different.Nope Expertise works in whole point fragments, mostly (I think) because it was based on the old Weapon Skill scale. All other stats work with atleast 2 decimals (so X.XX Mastery & X.XX% rest)

klausi
08-06-2011, 12:48 PM
Nope Expertise works in whole point fragments, mostly (I think) because it was based on the old Weapon Skill scale.
Are you sure about that for the current patch (4.2)? I'd tought they changed it and sitting at x.99 expertise wouldn't be that painful any longer.

Fetzie
08-06-2011, 01:12 PM
I thought they reworked expertise with cataclysm (which is why the boss soft cap became 23 while at level 80 at 4.0)

Airowird
08-06-2011, 02:28 PM
My current gear setup on my Warrior:
11 Expertise, gives 2.75% Dodge/Parry penetration (which is exactly 11 Exp), my rating is at 356, which according to Armoury is equal to 11.86 Expertise.If it was continuous, I'ld be at 2.965% penetration. The difference is clear.

Tengenstein
08-06-2011, 05:20 PM
But becasue the character shet shows discreet interverals of something doesn't make it True. the mastery Stat for example shows its effect to the nearest interger, and we know that isn't being rounded at all in practice.

Airowird
08-07-2011, 01:45 AM
But becasue the character shet shows discreet interverals of something doesn't make it True. the mastery Stat for example shows its effect to the nearest interger, and we know that isn't being rounded at all in practice.The tooltip is rounded, but the Mastery stat isn't, right? I know it's kind of a shitty tooltip & they should definately put in the extra digits, but I assume they did it because they needed to explain an entire mechanic in a single tooltip. Also, Mastery is the only tooltip that does tell you it's exact conversion rate, so you do know what it should be ... sorta ... if you're older than 6.

Also, the thing I said about Expertise doesn't matter with rounding, from 2.75% -> 2.96% isn't rounding, it's being correct :p

Tengenstein
08-07-2011, 02:09 PM
And my point was that if the Character sheet is rounding to dsiplay the Interger then our chace to pe parried missed won't necassarily be correctly reflected in the tooltip.

Airowird
08-07-2011, 03:04 PM
Well, feel free to stand around for hours, making logs just to prove me wrong :D

Tengenstein
08-07-2011, 04:15 PM
Why reinvent the wheel? (http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t38095-retesting_hit_table_assumptions/p3/#post1078466)

Airowird
08-07-2011, 11:50 PM
Ah, what I needed, will have to adjust the spreadsheet as well then :)