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arctus
07-26-2011, 02:16 AM
Hello,

we just downed lord rhyolith and will start working on Beth next ID. But after talking with a few guilds, it looks like beth is even a bit more difficulty than the lord.

We didnt had the chance to pull beth on HC jet. But i would appreciate any tip.

What set up would you suggest? Are there any classes/ specs that are preferred?
How do you assign the dps to the different tasks? Whats the priority for the adds?
Do you maybe also have some benchmarks, so we know, that we are on the right way. I.E. P2 on 70%? Kill on 30 frenzy stacks? or when the adds should be dead.

Thanks for any advice.

likesombode
07-26-2011, 05:21 AM
EDIT: From reading the normal mode beth'tilac discussion thread up the top there, this is assuming you have done the normal mode fight and understand the mechanics, which you obviously do :)

From our attempts in 10man it looks like dps uptime, good soaking and no consumptions is key to winning this fight.

2 tanks 3 healers and 5 dps. Preferably 4 range/1 melee but can have 3 ranged/2 melee.

We are currently sending up 2/0/1 dps on the 3 smolderings and it's getting the boss to around 83 give or take.

There are parses of kills in which split the spiderling damage between 2 dps but if 1 can handle it you are halfway to killing the boss. We have had to get an alt hunter in replacing our druid healer, and another alt coming in on his druid to heal the fight because our group just couldn't get the spiderlings down in an adequate timeframe.

We have been trying to concentrate dps on the 2nd drone that spawns as we believe it is the most important to cleaning up before the 3rd smoldering begins/phase 2. If you can get ahead on the 2nd drone and start dps on the 3rd as soon as it comes out, provided it doesn't eat any spiders, the 4th drone will most likely be on around 10-15% when she comes down.

Starting on the boss as soon as it comes down is pivotal as per the soft enrage, there are 8 minute parses which is around 38-40 stacks, but by then your tanks have eaten shit (run out of cds) and most of your raid are face down (getting 1 shot). Our group's best attempt was 9% at 40 stacks. That was due to the drone being on around 60-70% health and having to burn through that before starting on the boss, so instead of starting at stack 2 or 3(she gains her first stack before she is attackable in p2) we were starting at 7 or 8. That 5 stack difference(25 seconds) was the difference in the kill and the wipe. You really want to be aiming at killing her at 32-36 stacks.

I'd suggest a hunter or a boomkin solo'ing adds, we were trying a dk and having some plagued success, it was too messy, also the spiderlings melee for around 20k so broodling 50k - tick of puddle 40kish - spiderling melee 20k - dead.


Controlling broodlings is also key, we had the add killer soaking the majority but at times the raid would be spread so going off in different directions was impossible to keep track of.


Smolderings (venom rain) hits very hard when the group isn't topped. DO NOT get the impression that when you pull the boss it'll be that easy to heal every time, am's, sac's, tranqs and totems have to be used to get through, unless your healers are gods. Try not to have 1 person soak broodlings also during the smolderings because he has the ability to be 1 shot, use hand of sacs, gs, pain sup etc on the soaker during smolering if he's going to be soaking them all.

phase 2, dps like bosses, we went with the 1 widow's kiss tank, 1 main tank standing in the raid that got efflo/healing rain/lod etc. Phase 2 cooldowns depending on your group HAVE to be up by 24 stacks. we went with lust at 22 lasting 8 stacks(40 seconds) am at 30, totem at 32, sac at 34 and tranqs/hymns everything for 35ish plus. SAVE HS'S for 34plus stacks, you WILL need them. Locks, use your soulburn hs. After 22 stacks, the tank tauntsks only when he has a cooldown up, you will get around 3-4 swaps between 22 stacks and dead. Even the widows kiss tank must have a cd up after this because they can and will be 1 shot.
For tanks, boss mod timers atm have the kiss happening before the kiss is placed, dunno if it is bugged or there is a hidden cast bar for the kiss. There will be lovehearts appearing over the widows kiss tanks head BEFORE the kiss is placed, dont taunt before you see the debuff because it can be placed on your main tank, of course if you elect to go with that strat.


All in all, this is an amazing boss, and tests the patience of your raid. It has the tightest requirements for the first 4 or 5 bosses, but go in prepared, or you will see a non-progressed wipefest.

likesombode
07-26-2011, 05:32 AM
Oh i forgot to mention that spinners are number 1 priority when they are down, they must be taunted down straight away for access to the top but if they are not killed quick their random fire spit will be too much to heal. They web people for 30 seconds if they are not on the ground 30 seconds after they spawn also, preventing any actions from that player

Also fixate from the drones is a 10 second debuff on a random ground member, you just gota run away from the spiderlings pretty much. If it is on your add killer/soaker you must designate a backup for the 10 second duration.

broodax
07-26-2011, 08:55 AM
When you say "soaker" what do you mean?
Also, you mentioned this off-hand, but dungeon journal isn't clear- Do spinners only stun if they're still up, so it's not factor after they're taunted down?

klausi
07-26-2011, 09:04 AM
What set up would you suggest?
Honestly? Leave her alone until you're 5/7. She's the hardest heroic boss by far. Just look around at wowprogress, there are a lot of guilds with 5/7 and only not capable of killing her.

But anyways:
You can kill her with only 10% damaged above at ~ 39 stacks, 20% damaged above at ~ 35 stacks and 30% damage above at ~ 32 stacks. It really comes down to how good you're at cleaning up downstairs, handling the broodlings properly. If that's set you can start working on dps'ing her.

For spiderlings: hunter/frostdk/fury/owl are all capable of solo'ing them. But an owl or even a resto druid with mushrooms can help if you've problems with them.

For healing: if you don't have a druid and a shaman instead you might have a hard time before the burn phase with everyone has to stay in healing rain/chainheal range - you can't spread for the broodlings. Then you'll have to work on your own soaker strategy.


For tanks, boss mod timers atm have the kiss happening before the kiss is placed, dunno if it is bugged or there is a hidden cast bar for the kiss. There will be lovehearts appearing over the widows kiss tanks head BEFORE the kiss is placed, dont taunt before you see the debuff because it can be placed on your main tank, of course if you elect to go with that strat.
Bossmods only track her cooldown on the ability, she can use it any time after it's ready again.

likesombode
07-26-2011, 12:33 PM
Yeah, sorry if I gave the wrong impression, it was more directed at the graphic of the kiss rather than the timers. The updated dxe timers are extremely consistent with the graphic of the kiss being placed,not the actual debuff itself.

likesombode
07-26-2011, 12:47 PM
When you say "soaker" what do you mean? Also, you mentioned this off-hand, but dungeon journal isn't clear- Do spinners only stun if they're still up, so it's not factor after they're taunted down? The brooding explode for around 50k dmg and leave a puddle which slows you on the ground, Ideally you want these to be placed out of the middle where the majority of the raid is. So you want everybody stacked in 1 location as the broodlings Target a random ground member. The soaked then acts as a goalkeeper, intercepting them before they reach the raid.

The spinners web people if they are not taunted down, deathgrips, righteous defence etc all work and should be prioritised over anything else.Not sure about the dungeon journal, there are a few
mechanics that are not in there for some encounters.

arctus
07-27-2011, 12:45 AM
When i looked at wowprogress most raids have 1. shannox 2. rhyolith 3 Beth or bird. But i have to say, that i haven't checked whether all the beth kills were 25 or 10m. What would be your suggestion? I was thinking about baleroc. But havent found any informations regarding how to handle the fight...

pulled
07-27-2011, 03:35 PM
been worken on this guy also got him to 20 percent last monday. To help soakers try to stay stack within 5 yards as a grp or "get in the totems" this makes the strafe of the soaker small and his job ezer. p1 is all about maken the soaker job ezer. my raid comp has basicly no 1 helpen taunt down but as war tank i vigilance the upstairs tank. I use a mouseover taunt macro to get the adds down. i found the 2nd devastate to be the hardest i use my aoe taunt there and retaliation. at that point often 2 drones and alot of spinners.

if you could go more into the widows kiss strat and percisely when to taunt ty.

likesombode
07-28-2011, 08:10 AM
We ended up getting her tonite, we sent up 3-0-0 dps in the smolderings which got it down to around 79%. The key was getting the drone to around 20% when she came down for the frenzy. All dps switched straight off the drone and the tank not tanking the boss finished the drone off. Killed it at 36 stacks with an average raid dps of 149k in phase 2.

likesombode
07-28-2011, 08:16 AM
if you could go more into the widows kiss strat and percisely when to taunt ty.

We used 1 tank (dk) outside the raid taunting for the widows kiss then the pally tank would taunt back to take the rest of the hits, while stacked in the raid, benefiting from efflo, healing raid and wild growth etc.

From the widows kiss debuff FALLING OFF the tank to the new one being PLACED ON the tank is around 5-6 seconds.

The norm I think is to taunt swap every widows kiss and spread both your tanks out which has proven to work, it depends on your healers and their mana going into p2. After 18-20 stacks of frenzy on the boss, if you taunt and dont have a cooldown up you will most likely get 1 shot.

Also her MELEE SWING TIMER is 2.5 seconds.

I hope some part of this helps.

timoseewho
08-10-2011, 01:33 AM
So basically look to have her ~80% coming down for P2, doing either a 3/0/0 or 2/0/1 (depending on DPS), start rotating CD's from 25 stacks (including lust/warp) in P2. The key to success I guess is to make sure the raid is between the spiderling/broodling spawn AND the drone tank and for the fixate target from the drone to run to the tank spot ASAP. Is the spinners' stun pretty much ignored as long as they're taunted down fast? Does taunting them down interrupt their stun?

I'm a little confused about Widow's Kiss, should this be handled differently than on regular?

likesombode
08-10-2011, 04:27 AM
The spinners don't web if they are taunted down, but if they are left up and not killed after 30 seconds they will web people.

Widow's kiss can be handled however you feel is the most efficient, the normal strat works just as well as the widows kiss tank/mt. It really depends on your tanks and healers.

Fetzie
08-10-2011, 04:35 AM
After 18-20 stacks of frenzy on the boss, if you taunt and dont have a cooldown up you will most likely get 1 shot.


Is this also the case for a block capped tank taking 30% less melee damage by default?

likesombode
08-10-2011, 08:14 AM
Is this also the case for a block capped tank taking 30% less melee damage by default?

No, the wonders of being unhittable, although you want a cd up just incase your healers are falling behind or whatever. Someone asked if I had a cd up for the next taunt tonite, i said, "Yeah, i got unhittable up" I had a quiet chuckle to myself.

klausi
08-10-2011, 07:00 PM
I regulary open up with shieldblock, shieldwall, shielblock at the higher stacks so any ctc covered paladin can do the same with holy shield.

Problem: Ember Flare, every 6 seconds you'll still eat some nasty magical spikes you can't resist (only mitigate) on top of your melee hits and your healers will have a hard time keeping everyone up.

[21:16:37.500] Beth'tilac Ember Flare VictimA 39746 (A: 7951)
[21:16:39.079] Beth'tilac hits VictimA 61132 (A: 3046, B: 28834)
[21:16:41.495] Beth'tilac hits VictimA 79254 (A: 4863, B: 37792)
[21:16:43.557] Beth'tilac Ember Flare VictimA 48829 (A: 3078)
[21:16:43.856] Beth'tilac hits VictimA 73920 (O: 24988, B: 44437)

That's around Frenzy stack 28 with a little loop in a paladin's cooldown rotation.

[21:17:10.293] Beth'tilac hits VictimB Parry
[21:17:12.644] Beth'tilac hits VictimB Parry
[21:17:15.030] Beth'tilac hits VictimB 47018 (A: 10768, B: 94283)
[21:17:15.152] Beth'tilac Ember Flare VictimB 60607
[21:17:17.423] Beth'tilac hits VictimB (O: 12691, B: 50624)

That's at stack 35, you will surely be out of cooldowns by then and capable of dying in two globals even if you get lucky with critblocks like i did.

likesombode
08-10-2011, 08:34 PM
yeah, really if you havn't killed it before 36-38 stacks you are doing something wrong in phase 1. You need around 150-160k sustained raid dps in p2 from about 80-82%.

We have survived untill 40 stacks but I got 1 shot with an ember flare and melee hit.

Esarael
08-11-2011, 05:43 PM
Since I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, mages are incredible for this fight. Mages can survive Smoldering Devastation by using Invisibility just before it's cast. This allows them to remain on the web above and as such Beth'tilac will NOT use Venom Rain, but rather will attack the mage. In order to survive, the mage should use Mirror Image and blink as far as possible. He might also have to use Ice Block.

Taking two mages guarantees that there will NOT be any Venom Rain beside the one in the pull. One mage does not guarantee it due to Ice Block's long cooldown, but helps nonetheless. Remember the mage can always exit the web safely through its outer edges (rather than the hole in the center) with the use of Slow Fall; this might come in handy when avoiding her.

Fetzie
08-11-2011, 05:59 PM
Paladin tanks are supposed to be able to survive smouldering devastation by hitting Ardent Defender (the "cheat death" button) and immediately thereafter using Lay on Hands (however this is a once per encounter thing, and Lay on Hands may be better used in P2 when the healers start to fall behind beyond 30 odd stacks of Frenzy.

Esarael
08-11-2011, 10:01 PM
That is true, but they must also be able to survive being up there without a healer.

Rudolpho
08-23-2011, 07:50 AM
We managed to kill her this week at somewhere around 38 or 39 stacks. I don't know if it was a difference in gear, as our new paladin tank is probably 5+ ilevel lower than me, but as a druid tank I was taking less damage per hit than he was even when he would block. He is actually unhittable (or at least, suppose to be unhittable, since hes at 102.6% added avoidance and block I do believe) but did get hit once and did not block, dodge, or parry.

Beyond that however, there were points she was hitting him for 150k through a block, and only hitting me for around 125k. Many of our earlier wipes were from him taunting off of me when i got kissed, and getting globaled even through a cooldown.

leethaxor
08-25-2011, 10:07 AM
Howdy just looking for a bit of help with healing cooldown usage on beth

We currently send up 1 dps (other then tanks and healers) have no problem getting her down to 78 to 77% health. Upon getting early 30 stacks of frenzy she just kills us (due to healer oom). I was wondering if anyone could give us some help of when is the better time to use healing cool downs.

Our healing setup is
Rdruid
Rshaman
Hpally
(and we have a feral tank, and shadow priest for off spec tranq and hymn).

We currently hero at around 55% then just try to keep up healing cool downs as hero falls off. But we seem to constantly dieing at around 1.5 million health. While moar deeps would be nice, its going to be hard.

My current idea was a later heroism to boost execution phase dps, and to be the last healing cooldown any thoughts?

Ion
08-25-2011, 10:23 AM
We definitely lust at 35% not 55%, however if your healers are OOM, it's not really going to matter, healing-wise, when you lust.

I'd suggest that it's probably a problem with how you're dealing with the broodlings...you're probably taking too much damage from them and making your healers heal it (obviously this is just a guess, if there was a log or something it'd be easier to tell) and they don't have mana for the burn phase.

Additionally, at about 25 (I think...I neither tank nor heal this fight, so I'm going on memory of other people talking about it) stacks, your tanks should be rolling cooldowns whenever they're tanking her. Certainly by 30 they shouldn't be getting hit by her without having some sort of CD up.

leethaxor
08-25-2011, 12:56 PM
That's what our healers are saying, if we get a bad transition they can come into p2 with as low as 40% mana and we get screwed in p2 because of that.

Logs:
Wednesday
Tuesday
Monday

leethaxor
08-25-2011, 08:34 PM
Thanks for confirming the late heroism, we killed it several minutes ago