View Full Version : Tanking Question about Parry/Dodge and DR's

07-22-2011, 02:09 PM
My Dodge is sitting at 12.87% and my Parry at 16.49%. I have been reforging out Parry into Mastery (@ about 18%)as I have been trying to get them as equal as possible - or as much as possible with the 4% boost due to swordshattering.

OK so my question: Can someone explain diminishing returns to me (please talk to me like I'm a 5 year old)? I understand the concept mainly as it applies to CC and sort of get the feeling its roughly the same thing but really am not entirely sure.

Please feel free to critique gear and/or spec:


Thanks much for your help.

07-22-2011, 04:36 PM
Diminishing returns as it applies to ratings is fairly simple, as you get more X the more Xrating you need to get a given increase in X.

so if i have 3000 parry rating and 0 dodge rating i end up with 4.4% dodge and and 18.38% parry, meaning my total avoidance is 22.78%. Now if i got a peice of gear that increased Parry rating by 500 so i have 3500 parry rating my dodge stays the same and parry increases to 20.15% for a total of 24.55% avoidance.

If i then go and reforge 500 parry rating to dodge i end up with 500 dodge rating and 3000 parry rating giving me 7.23% dodge and 18.38% for a total of 25.61% avoidance.

As i had alot of parry i was "quite far into diminishing returns" fo that 500 extra rating didn't buy as much parry as it did buy dodge as i havd very little dodge. This is why to gain the maximum amount of avoidance you keep your dodge and parry ratings as equal, in our example if i managed to get 1750 dodge rating and 1750 parry rating i would end up with a 13.35% chance dodge and a 13.35% chance to parry for a total avoidance of 27.7% avoidance. thats a 3% gain over our original parry heavy build from the same total amount of rating. We just had so much parry rating that the diminishing returns on it had decreased the amount of parry chance got from rating by a large amount.

that was alot less confusing in my head.

07-24-2011, 10:15 AM
Diminishing Return basically means that the next point of rating grants less of a benefit than the previous point.

Assuming 1 dodge rating is 1% dodge and that the next rating point grants 0.01% dodge less each time, diminishing returns works a bit like this:

The first point of dodge rating gives 1% dodge.
The next 1 dodge rating gives 0.99% dodge (2 dodge rating = 1.99% instead of 2%)
The next 1 dodge rating gives 0.98% dodge (3 dodge rating = 2.97% instead of 3%)
The next 1 dodge rating gives 0.97% dodge (4 dodge rating = 3.94% instead of 4%)
The next 1 dodge rating gives 0.96% dodge (5 dodge rating = 4.90% instead of 5%)

This isn't exactly what happens (the maths is a bit more complicated and should be in a sticky somewhere), but it is probably close enough to explain the mechanic.

07-25-2011, 09:27 AM
To expand on Pyrea's example with the reason you want to balance avoidance...

5 Parry Rating = 4.90%
3 Dodge Rating = 2.97%
Total = 7.87% Avoidance

Now if the ratings were balanced... (note still the exact same number of points)

4 Parry Rating = 3.94%
4 Dodge Rating = 3.94%
Total = 7.88% Avoidance

7.88% > 7.87%

Because both dodge and parry deminish at the same rate, the ideal is to have the portion of it that does deminish balanced. However you also have to understand what is deminished and what is not.

Dodge and Parry have a base value of 5%. This 5% is not subject to deminishing returns. Any percentage based increase to "Dodge" or "Parry" (note lack of the word rating) is not subject to deminishing returns. These can come from talents or enchants such as Swordshattering. The ability Dancing Rune Weapon as another example is not subject to deminishing returns while active.

Since the net difference you will have from talents/enchants is the 4% from Swordshattering you want to balance it so that Parry is as close to 4% higher than Dodge when buffed (keep in mind buffs which increase your strength add more parry rating).

Something a five year old would understand... that's tough.
Ice cream is good. An ice cream only diet gives you a tummy ache. The return on ice cream is deminished the more you have. Good to have a balanced diet.

07-25-2011, 09:35 AM
Do you mind if I use your example in a paladin tanking guide I am planning on writing over the summer Quin? (obviously the DK specific bit is not applicable but the rest is)