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View Full Version : Tanking Trinket Decision



Pathora
07-13-2011, 06:55 PM
Our guild is just starting off with Firelands, and I got Scales of Life. Wondering what I should use between Symbiotic Wyrm, or Vial of Stolen Memories? (both 359 version)

I also have the Mastery trinket from Tol Barad as well, but only use that for fights needed on it.

Beefius
07-13-2011, 07:53 PM
Symbiotic worm; because mastery > dodge, and because its one less button to push. Take Spidersilk Spindle, Moonwell Phial or Stay of Execution over either T11 trinkets as soon as you are able though.

kopcap
07-14-2011, 01:05 AM
Scales are bad as right now, nothing more than a stamina boost. TB are SW are both fantastic, at least until you get the Spindle and unhittable.

pulled
07-14-2011, 04:23 AM
i use spindle and sw and often tb trinket. i am considering graben Essence of the Eternal Flame and usen that with spindle instead of sw(heroic)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=69002

Beefius
07-14-2011, 11:45 AM
Scales are bad as right now, nothing more than a stamina boost. TB are SW are both fantastic, at least until you get the Spindle and unhittable.

Scales of Life give a ~20k (from warrior talents) self-heal every 1 minute, whats bad about that? I think warriors particularly appreciate it since they dont have many source of self-healing. It seems to be on par with the proc from spindle & on-use from stay, though I will grant you those are both more attractive trinkets since they contribute to the pursuit of unhitable status.

pulled
07-14-2011, 02:04 PM
imo all their procs u just mentioned r pretty much terrible. it reminds me of the blue trinket from naax that abosorbed a lil damage. its all about that stats and the 575 stam is just not that important. a 20k heal once every 60 secs is lol.

kopcap
07-14-2011, 02:05 PM
Sorry, perhaps bad wording. Its certainly acceptable esp for a new tank, just really underwhelming comparing to our other options both for magic and melee. I just can't see much use for it provided we have other choices until we reach unhittable. Even then its gonna be more like "650 stam" rather than "25k on use". Can't see it the same sort of lifesaver that TB or Worm were.

Kavaren
07-14-2011, 06:48 PM
Don't forget that Symbiotic Worm can cover combat table fully when it matters. With 10 sec of shield block, 10 sec of 4 piece, and 10 sec where SW can save you without another cooldown it's BiS imo.

Beefius
07-14-2011, 07:23 PM
imo all their procs u just mentioned r pretty much terrible. it reminds me of the blue trinket from naax that abosorbed a lil damage. its all about that stats and the 575 stam is just not that important. a 20k heal once every 60 secs is lol.

Okay, I get that you're not all that impressed by the proc / on-use effects of the t12 tanking trinkets, but since their stat component makes them clearly superior to the t11h trinks, I dont see the relevance to your complaint; when I said they were equivalent I meant to each other, not to older trinkets we wont be using.

Yes, stam is less desirable than equivalent amounts of dodge of mastery prior to becoming unhitable, i never claimed otherwise; the OP was asking which of the two 359 stam tank trinkets should be replaced by the only 378 tank trinket he actually has.

A 20k heal may not sound like much, but then how much does a potion or a healthstone heal for? about the same, and what competent tank would chose to go without both of those given a choice? A 20k heal at the right moment can definitely save a tank's life; any time one dies from less than 20k overkill, thats a situation where a 20k heal would have made more difference than a temporary 2% increase in dodge or mastery or whatever.

TLDR; Scales arent a BiS trinket by any stretch, but its pure hyperbole to say they are worthless.

pulled
07-15-2011, 12:09 AM
i said its lol not worthless, and i dont use healing pots i use golemblood. 20k is pretty bad, actually terribad but not worthless. The OP was asken to compare basically only procs b/c all of them r stam trinkets. imo dont use the vial b/c the proc is bad compared to dodge and mastery.

u then started talken about other trinkets and referring to their procs which in no way shape why you would use them, its 98 percent the main stats on all the trinkets u mentioned and vial happens to have the worst stat of those. the trinket is a waste of money if u get it sell it and go use a blue from 5mans if u have nothing else.

marklar
07-15-2011, 05:22 PM
how about the apparatus? i recently got this (MS is arms), but it's pretty underwhelming for dps. however, i'm considering using it on the fights where i have to tank.

the strength gives some base parry, and the use effect should certainly push normal hits well off the combat table and give you a good chunk of crit block at the same time.

2540 mastery for 15 sec / 2 minutes sounds like a decent option, doesn't it?

kopcap
07-16-2011, 05:56 AM
If my calculations are correct it will be equivalent to an 18-19% SW against melee in max mastery build. Couple with SB it should theoritically push block off the table or so I think.

aresius
07-16-2011, 09:30 PM
I intend to use rep mastery/str proc trinket along with my Spidersilk to go unhittable and have a trinketed golenblood. Meanwhile, im using scales of life(zzz 800 rep to go. should get it tuesday).

Fetzie
07-17-2011, 04:13 AM
The heal from the Scales scales with +healing effects on you, and can crit. With Avenging Wrath it heals me for 23-24k non-crit - about the same as my word of glory. Pair it with WoG and I can get 50 odd k from both, and if one or both crit I will be looking at 70-90k healing instantly. Which is not bad by any stretch of the imagination. You can also upgrade it to 391 ilvl, at which point it is giving 650 stamina and a 19k base heal, which is 106 stamina more than the 372 Symbiotic worm.

Achilliesx
07-17-2011, 03:07 PM
as a warrior tank, i've got mirror of Broken images* & Symbiotic Worm(hc) and recently purchased scales of life, is it worth replacing the worm for it and then replacing the broken images trinket for spidersilk spinder? or just save the scales of life till i can upgrade it to hc version of it?

Fetzie
07-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Do you mean the Vial of Stolen Memories (valiona/theralion trinket) or the Mirror of Broken Images (tol'barad trinket)? :)

Achilliesx
07-17-2011, 03:24 PM
*above post fixed

klausi
07-17-2011, 05:45 PM
A 20-25k heal (with talent) on a one minute timer looks rather underwhelming compared to a reliable 1000 mastery procc or 400 resistance. And i don't see the great benefit of the additional 106 stamina just yet. With the awesome low droprate on upgrade tokens (at least on 10m) i can't see you upping the trinket before september, assuming you'll give neck and ring (and maybe relic/thrown) the priority.

But honestly all those new trinkets look kind of 'meh', Stay of Execution (http://www.wowhead.com/item=68996) has a 2 minutes cooldown. Spidersilk Spindle (http://www.wowhead.com/item=68981) absorbs even less then Scales of Life (http://www.wowhead.com/item=69109) heals for and you can't control it. And finally Essence of the Eternal Flame (http://www.wowhead.com/item=69002) grants a shorter Golemblood Potion (+1200 strength = 1.x% parry) for free, which is only a snap aggro tool.

I run with similar trinkets (worm/mirror) and will replace them with Spindle/Essence, unless i'm in need of the resistance.

gacktt
07-18-2011, 09:11 AM
I use heroic symbiotic worm + tol barad trinket. That's what kungen/xav seem to wear(well, the worm at least) when I armory them. I'm probably swapping pieces with the beth'tilac trinket depending on the physical/magic balance of damage.

aresius
07-18-2011, 10:49 AM
1000 mastery proc wont be particularly usefull (specially for pallys) once we have full ctc (im 4% away at a cruddy 366 ilvl and using a stam trinket).
Resistance is nice for specific fights, but in most encounters i beleive TB trink is outdated. Im see myself using scales again as BiS once i dont need the golenblood trinket for full ctc (or possibly the avengers tanking dodge one... who knows).

kopcap
07-18-2011, 05:06 PM
Spindle is very good. I wish it was on a 30s CD but oh well. Essence should be amazing on H Alysrazor, I really wish I got more rep earlier. Its probably also BiS for Baelroc as Spindles proc is completely useless there. TS is TB and I don't see how 35% magic reduction can be outdate for as long as bosses keep using magic.

aresius
07-18-2011, 05:34 PM
Its probably also BiS for Baelroc
Depends on what your tanking. Correct me if im wrong, but in my experience on Baelroc you cant block devastation blade, thus mastery trinkets are useless for the devastation tank. Getting a bit moar HP to only need 2 stacks to have 250K+ or a avoidance trinket to try to not take a blade all together prove more usefull. Of course if your guild solo-tanks it, blocking will still be important for the remainder of the fight, as it will for the main tank on the two-tank version.
And my exact words were "Resistance is nice for specific fights, but in most encounters i beleive TB trink is outdated".
Im not a native english speaker, but i think i put it quite clearly that my opinion was (in other words the same thing):
"in specific high magic damage encounters, it is usefull. But as a core trinket, higher stats from more recent tiers make them better choices."
If you think its still better then all other trinkets available for all fights, by all means, use it. But id say you are mistaken.

kopcap
07-18-2011, 05:58 PM
Every single encounter apart from Shannox has high magic bursts.

gacktt
07-18-2011, 07:54 PM
1000 mastery proc wont be particularly usefull (specially for pallys) once we have full ctc (im 4% away at a cruddy 366 ilvl and using a stam trinket).
Resistance is nice for specific fights, but in most encounters i beleive TB trink is outdated. Im see myself using scales again as BiS once i dont need the golenblood trinket for full ctc (or possibly the avengers tanking dodge one... who knows).

For warriors it's awesome, the moment you go below 80k hp you go from 9X CTC to 102.4% so you won't get unlucky gibs from 70-100k melee hits from hardmodes.

Mirror/worm seem to be the best combination except for shannox where spindle/worm is better. Scales of life seems so mediocre and I guess after upgrading it to heroic it might solid.

klausi
07-18-2011, 10:14 PM
Essence should be amazing on H Alysrazor, I really wish I got more rep earlier.
Well the fight isn't tuned for the trinket on 10m heroic anyways. A decent weapon, exp softcap and you're set (at least as a warrior, my paladin brethren had some more troubles with it), Inner Rage (+ Recklessness) seals the deal. For dealing 15k dps (x1000 multiplier) there's no magic needed ;)

Elsewhere somebody mentioned the Apparatus of Khaz'goroth (http://www.wowhead.com/item=69113), high baseline threat + accessibility + ~ 120 parry rating + 1725 mastery on use for 15 seconds (2 minutes cooldown), that's ~ 9% block/critblock. But honestly i'd go with Impetuous Query (http://www.wowhead.com/item=55881/impetuous-query) over it..

kopcap
07-18-2011, 10:41 PM
I know, 400 mastery coming with the Essence trinket is a real let down in Blizzards part. Perhaps, we could reforge some to spirit to tune it a little better.

Georonin
08-11-2011, 02:28 AM
Im actually very tempted at present to not carry a stam trinket. I lose 10K HP for a 2-3% boost in unhittability all the time. Obv I do change around per fight, think im nuts? or some of you doing that aswell now?

Fetzie
08-11-2011, 02:54 AM
Paladin tanks have much less trouble killing their chicken bones if someone applies the 8% spell damage debuff to it.

I use a mastery trinket and Stay of Execution on Baleroc, as he buffs my health enough to keep up with his damage anyway.

edeesis
08-11-2011, 06:03 AM
I think I'm going to be doing a lot of switching out to see what I like, Warriors can hit full CTC with two avoidance/mastery trinkets this patch, and I think it that might be useful on fights with high physical damage and relatively low magical damage, like Shannox and Beth'tilac.

I think this is what I'm going to do:

Shannox, Beth'tilac:

Spidersilk Spindle/Stay of Execution

Alysrazor:

Symbiotic Worm (H)/Essence of the Eternal Flame (or Apparatus)

Baelroc:

Vial of Stolen Memories (H)/Mirror of Broken Images

(one for decimation, one for inferno, single tanking).

Rhyolith/Staghelm/Ragnaros:

Depending on how my healers feel, might use:

Scales of Life/Stay of Execution
Symbiotic Worm (H)/Stay of Execution

I kind of like Stay of Execution better than the Spindle because take it into context.

Spindle will absorb 17K damage every minute, which is 34K every two minutes (assuming you will go under 35% once a minute).
Stay will absorb 57K damage every 2 minutes, and deal you back 23K, (57-23 = 34) and it's on use. You get to control when, and it's about the same amount of absorb as spindle.

I still REALLY like Worm, and I wish I had the Heroic version.
Vial is so useful for Baelroc, since we 1 tank it. Getting to hit that during decimation makes me so happy, same with Mirror for Inferno (you even get to have mirror up every time he inferno's assuming he does inferno/deci/inferno/deci etc).

Scales's proc is along the same lines as Stay and Spindle (hey if Disc priests can call their bubbles heals, so can we right?), but it's just a stamina trinket, and does have any sort of mastery.

So basically, if my healers are having trouble keeping me alive due to magic damage, Mirror and Scales are my options. If it's mostly physical damage, try to cover CTC, and use Spindle and Stay. Baelroc and Alysrazor are special exceptions, where perhaps it's more useful to have special trinkets.

marklar
08-12-2011, 02:24 PM
Depends on what your tanking. Correct me if im wrong, but in my experience on Baelroc you cant block devastation blade, thus mastery trinkets are useless for the devastation tank.

i actually went and bought the worst trinket in the game for tanking devastation blades. bedrock talisman can proc every 30 seconds, and coupled with an on-use dodge trinket, i found it useful for this fight.

Fetzie
08-13-2011, 04:51 AM
That is actually a really good idea now you mention it marklar. Damn, I think I need to go farm some 5 mans now :<

aresius
08-14-2011, 12:09 AM
Wow. Mark, you hit a spot. Im envious i didint think aobut that.