View Full Version : Tanking Pala tanking
07-12-2011, 01:42 AM
Hello I thought I'd post as alot of people don't understand wow math if u want a good pala tank that holds aggro and makes healers smile ur stats need to aim for this as a minimum this is what I have and I don't have any issues.Hit=1% pref. expertise = what ever ur gear gives. Mastery> as much as u can. Dodge 10%. parry mine is currently 14% but will try reforging in to mastery to get it down to around 10-11% uping mastery if possible to see results. Block I have 51% . currently I have around 190k hp buffed. My item lvl is 360 im not the best geared but am making progress in firelands this is working for me very well and I thought I'd help people that reed all the math and just end up as clueless as before. Enjoy : ). *edit from original to relate better information*
07-12-2011, 01:50 AM
Also this is my bace and u need to build on the stats but if ur new to pala taking or are havin issues with current stats the above is a good starting point :)
07-12-2011, 03:18 AM
Expertise and hit are not really the stats I would recommend a new paladin to go for. They are probably the weakest of all the stats relevant to tanking (so disregarding things like spirit, crit and haste). This has a fairly simple reason: Vengeance. During a boss fight you will have about 28k attack power because of it. In a nutshell, if you hit hard enough, occasionally missing doesn't really matter at all. To put this into perspective: I currently have 77 hit rating and 82 expertise rating, which equates to 0.64% hit and 12 expertise with the seal glyph and have zero threat problems. This anecdotal evidence is supported by pretty much every tank I have talked with and by the simulations on Maintankadin. In essence, if you are having threat problems then get better at the rotation/priority system, getting this perfect will give you much more of a return than any amount of hit and expertise.
The best stat for Prot paladins is mastery. This should be on every item - if it is not on an item reforge so that it is. Getting your block high enough to block every swing is a target you should be aiming for. A dead tank does no tps and the boss runs around hitting the squishies. Mastery is the most efficient way of ensuring that you don't die.
These are my vital statistics (from the armory so completely unbuffed, 370 ilvl)
1746 dodge rating (13.93%)
1900 parry rating (14.60%)
2725 mastery rating (23.20 = 57.2% block)
77 hit rating (0.64%)
82 expertise rating (2)
That is how little I like hit and exp, just look at the difference in the amount of rating.
07-12-2011, 04:34 AM
But without the hit I found aoe tanking very difficult with squishies pulling mob left right and centre that's with 4% hit at 6% I have no issues at all can run in to a pack of 8+ mobs and not lose 1. I can understand maby if single target but u don't just take boss I'm wow. maby u could explain what might be wrong? kina find it hard to Beleave hit and expert is not needed.
07-12-2011, 04:39 AM
Are you using Inquisition when AoE tanking and stacking censure on the different targets? that is a flat 30% boost to your damage (the only physical damage is melee swing + the initial hit of HotR on your current target. When I am tanking 4-5 mobs I am often over 18k dps, on a huge pull like the small elementals + the two mobs before the first boss in vortex pinnacle I am close to 30k.
07-12-2011, 05:04 AM
Any combination of the following factors could explain youe "needing" hit; Your spec could be sub optimal, your rotation could be sub optimal, or the DPS you roll with could be idiots meter whores. Assuming this (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/agamaggan/Demonichero/talent/primary) is you, you're spec is definetly less then great, for threat you want to get down to Rule of Law in the ret tree, you can safely ditch your points in Eternal GLory, Imp.Hammer of Justice, and Hallowed Ground.
For AoE (>4mobs), you should have a priority that looks something like this if you have alot;
remember this is a priortiy not a rotation, so first thing you do is keep inquisition up (don't clip it, even if this means capping out on holy Power), If Inquistion is up, use Hammer if it's not on CD. If Inquisition is up and hammer's on CD, use avengers shield. If Inq's up, and bothe HotR and AS are on CD use Consercration (Consercration should only be used if you have a large number of mobs beating on you, enough that you're getting wnough mana back from sanctuary to not OOM yourself). if all thats on CD, use Holy wrath. Judgement is lowest priority hough feel free to bump it up if you need the mana return. If you're talking about tanking <4mobs at once feel free to use your single target priority but with hammer in place of Crusader strike (ShotR>HotR>AS>HoW>J>Conc>HW) while tabbing around.
07-12-2011, 05:13 AM
And don't be afraid to use ShoR to dump HoPo if you get a GC procc with more than 4.5 seconds left on INQ (for example INQ-HotR-AS-HotR-CONC-HotR_GCprocc-INQ-HotR-AS-HotR-ShoR...)
07-12-2011, 06:42 AM
Ok I see well that's basically what I do but I haven't used inquisition. So u recommend re talent dump hit and exper in to mastery use inquisition so what should I aim to keep parry and dodge at then. Suprising because I never had complaints about damage taken. Lol there is so much conflicting info on the net so if u can set it in black and White it would be great thank you.
07-12-2011, 07:04 AM
I'll try this out tonight and I guess if it's creditable you have helped set it out clearly for me and others that might have been in the same boat thank you :)
07-12-2011, 07:53 AM
It will be credible, these guys know how to play their pally's; they've helped me.
07-12-2011, 10:52 PM
I'm just reposting what Theck's posted, i haven't raided with my pally proper since the begining of cata.
07-13-2011, 04:38 AM
Ok well I try this last night and I can say that using inquisition fixes the threat issue from losing hit. Hit will give u better aggro but if u do what these guys have said u can over double ur dps when taking and hold aggro with ease as well as adding another 10% block from reforging the hit tank u very much guys. Made me smile to pull 24k dps on packs of mobs just beating all the dps :)
07-13-2011, 04:42 AM
yeah like I said earlier...if you hit hard enough it doesn't matter if you miss every now and again. Glad to hear it worked out for you.
07-13-2011, 04:43 AM
Also maby I can take the adds faster on fireland bosses taking stress off dps pulling 12k single target dps instead of 6k :O
07-13-2011, 07:17 AM
Oh yes. Though in my opinion, the DPS shuld be getting more stressed when their tank is doing more damage than them.
07-13-2011, 07:23 AM
Oh yes. Though in my opinion, the DPS shuld be getting more stressed when their tank is doing more damage than them.Lol well they pull from 15>25k so I won't out dps them in raid but will take adds down faster :)
07-13-2011, 12:29 PM
A bit offtopic i guess, but im seeing you guys mentioning inq for multi-target rotations and wanted to share a thought i had when trying to down alysrazor. Would the damage buff justify trying to keep up a inquisition to kill the hatchlings, or is a sotr still optimum damage? Ive been having to run with a expertise elixir/food and a hit trinket to help my dps, but if a simple rotation change could allow me to keep my regular set i beleive survivability would be eased a bit.
Edit:reading another post i just found out i overlooked that inq > sotr if inq nor duty is up. :/ ive been doing my rotation wrong all along.
07-13-2011, 03:15 PM
The INQ-less rotation isn't "wrong", it just could be better. The rotation with INQ isn't that much more dps (Theck's sims show it to be about 100 more dps, although that would become a lot more at alysrazor)
07-14-2011, 12:56 AM
Well when using inq I found in packs keeping it up I went from ruling 10-14 k dps I jumped to 24k also after reforging my hit away without poping inquisition things got messy treat wise at the start. It's easy to keep it up I just replaced HoW on my 3rd mouse button as i never seem to use it when tanking. U can get away not using inq but makes things harder if you don't have hit. I got to see now how threat wise I compare to my co tank in firelands as when on his dk I just couldn't hold aggro against him on trash would love to have him sweat to keep aggro for a change lol
07-14-2011, 01:02 AM
A bit offtopic i guess, but im seeing you guys mentioning inq for multi-target rotations and wanted to share a thought i had when trying to down alysrazor. Would the damage buff justify trying to keep up a inquisition to kill the hatchlings, or is a sotr still optimum damage? Ive been having to run with a expertise elixir/food and a hit trinket to help my dps, but if a simple rotation change could allow me to keep my regular set i beleive survivability would be eased a bit.Edit:reading another post i just found out i overlooked that inq > sotr if inq nor duty is up. :/ ive been doing my rotation wrong all along. after listing to these pros and me trying what they said u don't need any hit and just use the exp u get on gear u can't reforge in to mastery keep INQ up and tab around and keeping aggro is easy. Only thing is I don't make jugement last prio I use it when I can as I was going oom without regular use :)
07-29-2011, 01:59 AM
The INQ tip has really helped me on mobs both on holding aggro and maintaining a consistent DPS. I always used to go for the shield bash)
One thing im really having problems with right now is survivability in heroics. I know it stems from a couple of things mainly that my damage mitigation (block aprox 56% dodge 14.6% parry 15%) is stacked for main tank raiding on boss's and not the typical stam/mastery. The other is my cool downs. This has been pointed out by our raid leader who is a former pally tank. Bottom line is where do i draw the line as far as gem/reforge for stam vs. mitigation for heroics and maintaining the success im having on boss tanking in raids as well as any general tips for defense cooldowns?
07-29-2011, 04:00 AM
TBH gemming either way will not really make you take tons more damage. I just use stamina/mastery or stamina/parry (or parry/mastery). There is nothing in any 5man that warrants saving a cooldown for longer than a minute, so just use them whenever you feel like you might need one.
By the way, this topic would have been better suited to the HALP forum or the Gear and Enchanting forum. The Theory+Mechs one is more for number crunching and headaches :) Posting a thread in the right forum saves the Mods a lot of work.