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View Full Version : DPS Rhyolith 10m Normal Help?



Kazistrasza
07-08-2011, 08:46 PM
So, my guild killed Shannox and Beth'tilac on 10-man normal mode Tuesday in our first Firelands raid (we took a week off). We're all in essentially 359ilvl gear as we only killed H Halfus and H Chimaeron once each in the last week due to starting the guild late in T11. We were doing great with adjusting, DPS output, healer output, communicating, etc. Then, we got to Rhyolith last night, and we spent 3 hours and 19 wipes to never see phase 2. We all have a pretty good knowledge of the fight, the mechanics, and a general strategy. We had a couple issues with one of our members dying to fire here and there, but that only caused about two of the 19 wipes.

We were three healing and two-tanking the fight because two healers weren't able to keep up with all the damage going out to the raid as well as one tank with all the adds. The spark was basically taking two full sets of fragments or so to die because we could only afford our hunter and warlock on them. Our arcane mage, arms warrior, and mut rogue were all on the boss trying to do the driving. Granted, they were doing a good job staying coordinated, not getting to the lava, and not accidentally hitting wrong volcanoes very much. We were just having a problem that they were activating back behind the boss and they couldn't turn him near fast enough to get to them and so we kept getting to 8, 9, or even 10+ stacks and just getting destroyed.

They were all three rotating popping their DPS cooldowns to be able to turn him just enough sometimes to keep him going in a circle aroudn the platform. We originally tried having just the warrior and rogue but they couldn't even come close to turning him more than just barely avoiding the lava the entire time. The only time they could even get close to a "sharp" turn was when he was standing still to stomp us and turning while he stomped, even with two or sometimes all of them popping cooldowns.

What are we missing here? I've seen kill videos on Youtube and everything and sure they mentioned the boss didn't turn very fast but it looked like it wasn't quite so un-doable as what we were experiencing last night. It basically looked as though there would be no way for us to complete the fight, which was incredibly demoralizing. I know RNG is a factor, but I don't believe in RNG ever being the reason of a wipe more than poorly handling or preparing for RNG situations. I'm really just not sure what we should be doing different.

Sebadoh
07-10-2011, 01:07 AM
My guild is currently facing the same wall. The only way, as far as we can tell, to do a sharp turn is to have ALL dps switch to the boss but that's not feasible if there are fragments up. I'd be interested in hearing a good solution to this problem myself.

And if all else fails, there were some hotfixes in the past few days that should the volcanoes less deadly. Volcanoes shouldn't be activating behind the boss very often anymore, and each volcano applies seperate stacks (rather than all of them stacking up and refreshing each others' stacks, we've seen 15+!).

Kazistrasza
07-10-2011, 11:42 AM
My co-GM came up with some stuff when he was researching. First, all those hot fixes earlier in the week didn't actually work and made things worse, ESPECIALLY with turning the boss. This includes preferring volcanoes in front of him. Total myth.

Some tricks we found:

If you have a rogue, make sure they aren't using Deadly Poison as it leaves behind a DoT that does significant damage, making it harder to turn when he switches legs. Consequently if you're using a hunter, tell them not to use Serpent Sting.

Have your melee use Sunder Armor/Expose Armor in the beginning to counteract all of his armor stacks. Less important if Colossus Smash effects other melee's attacks aside from the warrior (I don't actually know this one), but very important if you don't have a warrior at all.

If you're using an arcane mage and have a warlock in the raid, have the lock go demo and keep Curse of the Elements up on both legs. It'll help the lock kill the fragments faster and help the mage turn the boss better.

The biggest tip we found, however, was to not avoid the inactive volcanoes in front of him. The damage buff he gets from hitting one is much lower than the damage debuff the raid gets if he activates a volcano you just passed and won't be able to get to for quite some time. It'll mean more fire for your raid to dodge, but dodging fire is easy and shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: I won't be able to actually try these for approximately 8.5 hours from the time of this post, but I think it should all work.

Tengenstein
07-10-2011, 04:53 PM
Sunder doesn't counter his armour stacks. and sunder should be going up anyway if you have a rogue/warrior/hunter/druid in the raid. any Spec of warlock can maintain CoE on multiple targets, Affliction has the easiet time of this Due the Jinx talent being pretty easy to get/nigh mandatory. CoE on the legs is not going to improve the Locks DPS on the adds whithout Jinx talented

leethaxor
07-11-2011, 02:43 PM
If you find yourself having to snap a direction, your problem is most likely you aren't planning out where he will be. Rhyolith dances like a large lady. There isn't gonna be a lot of quick turns and spins to show off to the judges. You need to be warry of where Rhyolith is, and how fast you can turn him, and plan around that. That is the key to the encounter.

If he just plan old fashion NOT turning. Then break out recount and see who is on the wrong leg. Because he does turn, slowly, you have to build up to a turn, but if he doesn't turn... Somebody is leaving stray DoTs or just has the wrong target.

Fetzie
07-11-2011, 04:25 PM
DoTs do not appear to alter the steering behaviour (at least they didn't the last time we killed him). Give one player who is good at spacial awareness the job of calling out which leg to dps and when to switch, and have every member on the legs follow his lead. Sometimes Rhyolith proves to have the turning circle of a cruise ship, you need to start to turn him fairly early. Also take a look at this thread (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?76370-Lord-Rhyolith), in which various tactics and strategies are discussed.

Kazistrasza
07-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Sunder doesn't counter his armour stacks. and sunder should be going up anyway if you have a rogue/warrior/hunter/druid in the raid. any Spec of warlock can maintain CoE on multiple targets, Affliction has the easiet time of this Due the Jinx talent being pretty easy to get/nigh mandatory. CoE on the legs is not going to improve the Locks DPS on the adds whithout Jinx talented

Druids have FF. Warriors have CS. Didn't mean it would make the stacks not count, only that it would provide extra damage going in to make up for the fact that you can't do as much. You also don't seem to have read the part of what I said about warlocks almost at all. "If you're using an arcane mage..." I was talking about helping the mage out turning the boss, not the lock on the adds. The adds are a joke.

Leeth, there's nothing you can do to plan where volcanoes will spawn. Also, if you're having to get one right near the edge that just spawned and just activated, you can end up needing to make very sharp turns to not go into the lava as you hit the volcano. Awareness is not part of our issue; that's probably what we're best at. DoTs only make a slight difference, though every tiny bit hurts in the start.

Tengenstein
07-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Druids have FF. Warriors have CS. Didn't mean it would make the stacks not count, only that it would provide extra damage going in to make up for the fact that you can't do as much. You also don't seem to have read the part of what I said about warlocks almost at all. "If you're using an arcane mage..." I was talking about helping the mage out turning the boss, not the lock on the adds. The adds are a joke.



All of the information contained in your post is very basic information, if your DPS warriors aren't using CS, then they really need to learn to play, as an arms/fury warrior, if you can put CS up; you put CS up you might as well be saying have your Druid healers stack lifbloom on the tanks. When you raid, you usually put up raid buffs.

I read the part about CoE, what i read was "have the lock go demo and keep Curse of the Elements up on both legs. It'll help the lock kill the fragments faster and help the mage turn the boss better." the Bolded part just isn't true; if you don't take Jinx having CoE on the legs will not affect DPS on the adds.

squats
07-12-2011, 08:10 AM
Do not dot both legs. if at all possible, dont use dots at all on the legs. He snaps left and right much faster now. (meaning if you have him turning 2/3 to the right. It takes very little damage to get him to snap back to center now) This will just make turning harder.

We have 2 dps on legs at all times. A unholy/frost DK, and me as an enhance shaman. If we need to turn him hard left/right or snap him to the other direction fast, we have designated dps attack the leg we need attacked.

This fight definitely felt easier the first week before they "fixed" things.

Fetzie
07-12-2011, 08:34 AM
This fight definitely felt easier the first week before they "fixed" things.

I have to concur with this - the first week we went in there blind and killed him in 2-3 pulls, then on the next wednesday we spent 90 minutes wiping to him. After the hotfixes we went in the next day and killed him first try. Before the hotfixes to his steering it felt like he needed about a 60 metre turning circle, compared to then he almost pirouettes now.