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Vicnods
07-08-2011, 01:03 AM
Need opinions with regards to my gemming and reforging for normal mode FL. Should I go for more stamina? Some people say I should just aim for 20 mastery and go for more parry/stamina.

Tanking FL on 10 man is manageable but healers on 25s complain that I actually take too much damage. Actually got me thinking of stacking more stamina in order to survive dots like jagged tear.

Also need feedback on hit% and expertise.

Armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bonechewer/Vicnods/advanced

kopcap
07-08-2011, 01:19 AM
Your gearing is totally appropriate with the exception of scales which I would drop for TB in no time and replace stamina hybrids with pure mastery in yellow sockets.

Your dmg intake on Shannox is proportional to your ablity to drop stacks, ideally should not have more than 5.

You gonna need hit on Rhyolith, but thats the only fight you will need to deviate from standard mastery centric approach (although I have not done Majodomo myself, believe its the same).

Tengenstein
07-08-2011, 01:25 AM
Hit and Expertise are for DPS, generally you won't be needing them.

Vicnods
07-08-2011, 01:42 AM
Thanks for the input.

Do I also gem pure mastery in prismatic sockets?

Bigbad
07-08-2011, 01:45 AM
Looks good to me, would drop 1 stamina trinket for a mastery one. And the 359 rep boots are slightly better then the 365 you have atm. I run with 3 expertise and 0% hit and that's fine for all fights. I made a threatset for alyzrasor though you want 24 expertise and 6% hit to cap against the varocious hatchling(lvl 87), i got 21 expertise and 3% hit which would cap expertise with food without sacrificing too much defensive stats. Pushing well over 100k dps as tank is funny :P

kopcap
07-08-2011, 01:49 AM
Do I also gem pure mastery in prismatic sockets?Yes.

ps Don't need any exp or hit on Alysrazor, its bollocks. Maybe different on heroic, certainly not needed on normal.

Vicnods
07-08-2011, 01:53 AM
Ohh well I'll keep that in mind until my guild progresses to Alyzrasor. :)

Is there an ideal raid buffed HP for firelands? I'm worried that if I replace on of my stam trinkets with the mastery one my HP would drop too much.

kopcap
07-08-2011, 01:59 AM
You will need 175 buffed for Baleroc, other than that dw. I have less hp than you in higher ilvl.

Vicnods
07-08-2011, 02:06 AM
Is there any truth to the rumors that parry overtook mastery as our desired stat?

Bigbad
07-08-2011, 02:18 AM
ps Don't need any exp or hit on Alysrazor, its bollocks. Maybe different on heroic, certainly not needed on normal.

Why wouldn't you get some expertise and hit if that makes you do 10-15k dps more, seems significant enough to me. Not like you take massive amounts of damage and need to be in full survival gear just need to handle the enrage properly with wurms and cds. Of course you can let the dps make up the difference but might as well do it yourself :)

kopcap
07-08-2011, 02:39 AM
No, but you need it to live through p4. You job is not to push 100dps on that fight, its simply to kill hatchlings before they kill you. Exp is not needed for that. Esp if they fix DW any time soon.

Vic - atm no, not close. After block cap in heroic gear avoidance is likely to play out better, but it won't be parry simply due to gear itemazation, you gonna be reforging all the parry you can find into dodge just to get numbers a little closer.

Gnoo
07-08-2011, 07:53 AM
No, but you need it to live through p4. You job is not to push 100dps on that fight, its simply to kill hatchlings before they kill you. Exp is not needed for that. Esp if they fix DW any time soon.

If the damage in p4 is too much, one can simply use some cooldowns and be totally fine. I'm not saying that hit and expertise are needed for this fight but if your raid is struggling with killing the adds before the tornado phase, it definitely won't hurt.
Also, a dead bird doesn't hit you anymore and can't pop tantrum. So killing a bird a bit before tornados spawn allows you to feed it at a shorter pace before that, again reducing the damage you take.

Imho just look at what you're struggling with and then make adjustments towards your strategy or gear.

(this is all for 25 man btw.)

kopcap
07-08-2011, 12:07 PM
Its a team game and I like my healers. If a bird was not dead I would blame myself long before trying to ninja shift the burden onto them on a fight where tanks are taking such a ton of burst dmg. We both know its a lot easier to tank with high expertise on every encounter, its just that healers usually have to pick all the slack from it. On this fight it is not necessary, its well tuned without it.

Alysana
07-08-2011, 11:50 PM
Is there any truth to the rumors that parry overtook mastery as our desired stat?

Mastery is still the best, and it'll be even better once you hit the avoidance cap since going from 30 to 60% blocked hits is a stronger increase than going from 0 to 30%.

Having done all of FL on normal, there's no encounter which encourages high stamina. All the deadly magical damage can be avoided by not standing in fire (Ragnaros)

On Baleroc you can simply swap in 2 stamina trinkets to meet the 250k health requirement if you're the OT.

Tengenstein
07-09-2011, 01:22 AM
Mastery is still the best, and it'll be even better once you hit the avoidance cap since going from 30 to 60% blocked hits is a stronger increase than going from 0 to 30%.


I'm sure that's not quite how it works. Before you reach unhittable each point of mastery is increasing your chance to block and your chance that blocks will be Critical Blocks, afterwards it merely is affecting the chance of critical blocks.

I made a Graph (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/Tammuz/blocks5.jpg) a while back to illustrate how the now scrapped changed to Holy shield would affect paladin's mastery and how warriors measured up, as you can see, there's a slight curve to warriors damage reduction from mastery as it increase (unsurprisingly) and the flattens off to a steady gradient as our chance to block caps.

klausi
07-09-2011, 08:01 AM
No, but you need it to live through p4. You job is not to push 100dps on that fight, its simply to kill hatchlings before they kill you. Exp is not needed for that. Esp if they fix DW any time soon.
If your raiddps is high enough to kill the birds with a low exp/hit gear then it's fine. Adding 26 expertise should increase your dps noticeable and way above having an additional dps on your side. And all that in exchange for ~ 4% avoidance or ~ 7% block/critblock. On heroic mode the birds have less health (about 7m each) but you've to deal with three of them every phase all on your own while your dps destroy those boulders in time.

Loganisis
07-09-2011, 08:24 AM
Warrior mastery will still add 1.5% to crit block once you hit 102.4 block cap as a warrior. I think at that point you balance more mastery with parry/dodge rather than stack mastery - maybe once you hit 102.4 you push ratings into dodge/parry until they're at points that the DR from them really affects the amount of rating needed and then from that point on you push mastery to try to hit crit-block capped.

In 4.2 there do seem to be more stacking debuffs that more avoidance would help on, on the flip side, there's also huge incoming 'normal' damage (at least on 25m) where an additional 31% block (with the meta) on the incoming damage would be highly valuable (thinking towards non-decimation tank on Baleroc for example - and reducing the melee from shannox surrounding the arcing slashes would be win too).

It'll be interesting.

Basically, 179 mastery gives you 1.5% crit block at that point, which is 31% DR compared to 69% from an avoidance. So my guess is that the inflection point will be somewhere around:

179/X = .31/.69

179/X = .449

179 = .449*X

179/.449 = 398.66 rating required for the next point of avoidance (due to DR) - at that point, for sure, mastery > avoidance again.

Which, according to the work WarTotem (now Airowird) did, http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?75432-Understanding-diminishing-returns-A-closer-look-(-HOW-DOES-IT-WORK)&p=505524#post505524 (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?75432-Understanding-diminishing-returns-A-closer-look-%28-HOW-DOES-IT-WORK%29&p=505524#post505524) is basically never going to be reachable. 3000 avoidance rating requires 278.1 rating for the next full point of DR (actually slightly more since it will grow slightly as you reach 3278)...

So the hard inflection point where crit block only reduces the total incoming damage more than avoidance doesn't seem to be reachable, at all (have to have like 4000 mastery, dodge, and parry).

Since we're talking about the future - it's also worth noting that at 90% crit block http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84621 - Hold the line's value starts to plummet. If you ever hit 100% crit block, then dodge=parry for warriors too (as it would just be 10% crit hit chance) - though that will never happen methinks.

*****

I'm sure mastery past 102.4 will continue to be valuable - but given that it already acts as EH at this point and crit block would be what... ~50%-ish? you probably can't get crit block high enough to make it reliable and avoidance does have the benefit this tier of making it more likely those stacking dots fall off.

It'll be interesting to see how the numbers play out, but probably will be only something players in full heroic gear worry about.

gacktt
07-09-2011, 12:14 PM
The hits as expected are bursty in 25man (80k melee swings and that jazz). I'd go for a good balance of stam/mastery for 10man. I have about 33% dodge/parry/miss, 50% block and 169k hp unbuffed in all 359 + reputation gear, served me well. If I were in a 25man guild I'd go pure stamina.

pulled
07-10-2011, 12:55 AM
as regards to hit expertise
spider-midagation gear
hunter boss- i went mida gear
rock giant- tps gear max expetise hit, if u not comfortable with ur healers use elixer of naga then switch to mastery on p2. use resist imo as other elixer
Bird- i went tps cuz heals r good and we needed the big adds to die faster. tps to me means max expertise and hit.
Gatekeeper- we used a 2 tank strat wear druid got start agro tell 4 stacks and taunted on the shadow phase. i went mida gear for this fight.
Druid boss- i used tps gear cuz its alot of aoe damage and honestly its burn so u need max damage urself and u cannot be throttling the dps.
Rag/big fire boy- Ok so this i went mida gear b/c u r usen ur offtanks threat. let the other tank get start threat if u have to pull with recklessness or retaliation. what i did was i set my offtank to focus and intervened him each time i taunted, he happened to be a druid so he would kitty then use his threat drop. this put me 20 percent ahead of him in like 2 gcd's so he can dps at will. also when ur offtank taunts use that time to put up demo and tc so u dont pull back.
as for ur gear imo u prob have to high of parry. you need to optimize it with raid buffs.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2228173018 is a good way to learn about that.