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ladydarkwolf
07-05-2011, 04:37 PM
i've been final getting around to level my feral druid and i'm a few points away from 85 and able to spend my hard earn JP for epic gear, now a friend of my and fellow feral tank druid told me me to get Str and Stam weapons/trinkets/relic/etc, but i disagree with him (expect for the trinkets) since my secondary spec is setup for dps as a cat druid, can you guys help me settle this?

Destruyen
07-06-2011, 03:57 AM
compared to any other stat, agi is worth at least double that amount. agi gives bears mitigation, threat, and avoidance which no other tanking class gets all three of those out of one stat. stay with agi items, with crit/mastery combo items being the best items to look for.

as far as stam trinkets yes they are useful to have and have their place, but like shield tanks that also have mastery/avoidance trinkets to swap in depending on fights, bears get avoidance out of agi "dps" trinkets like fluid death and tia's grace.

ladydarkwolf
07-06-2011, 05:19 AM
I see what your saying can you tell me what you think i should be looking for in ZG/ZA/4.0 raids/epic jp for in gear for my bear (besides the main armor, I know what i'm after there)

Katarn
07-07-2011, 10:31 PM
Mastery > Exp to 26 > Crit > Hit > Exp after 26 > Haste

Destruyen
07-08-2011, 02:58 AM
Mastery > Exp to 26 > Crit > Hit > Exp after 26 > Haste

uhmmmm wat?


bear stats are:
agi > dodge > mastery > crit = expertise > hit > haste

Selendis
07-08-2011, 03:37 AM
on that note, why is crit = expertise?, I was under the impression that single roll table meant crit chance would be independant of expertise. Or are we taking threat into account?

Destruyen
07-08-2011, 04:13 AM
more crits = more possible sd procs. once you get to a certain gear level expertise will be just as good as crit to proc savage defense since you will be dealing with less parries/dodges. until 26 expertise, expertise is something like 6 or 7 times better than hit because you are eliminating parries and dodges at the same time.

Selendis
07-08-2011, 04:46 AM
I see. I was under the impression that the single-roll system prevented crit from being dodged until you crit the boss on every hit (if that made sense). Sounds like I need to check up on my theory again :) thanks.

Destruyen
07-08-2011, 09:04 AM
this is how you figure out if every attack you do will be a crit or not for special attacks:

104.8 - chance to be dodge - chance to be parried - chance to miss = crit cap (every attack landed will crit)

and the attack table goes something in the order of:
miss > parry > dodge > block > glancing > crit > hit

^ could be totally wrong on that though, it's been awhile since i looked up how the combat table handles rolls

since parries are on the table for tanks (not for dps if doing it properly) as well as dodges then you can see that expertise is more valuable than hit and even crit at certain levels.

the closer you are to your crit cap (raid buffed) the higher the uptime on sd will be (50/50 chance on crit). this is another reason why gemming agility as much as you can afford and still have enough hp to live through boss attacks and special abilities is so strong for bears right now. and the fact that we get mitigation, avoidance, and threat from that one stat ofc :)

Katarn
07-08-2011, 08:33 PM
uhmmmm wat?


bear stats are:
agi > dodge > mastery > crit = expertise > hit > haste
Fine if you want to add Agi and Dodge:

Agi > Dodge > Mastery > Expertise to 26 > Crit > Hit > Expertise after 26 > Haste.

Once you reach ~359 ilvl (which is ridiculously easy now) you can more chances for SD procs from taking Exp to 26 than you do adding more Crit. Hit is a tiny, tiny bit more valuable than Expertise after 26 because it also affects Demo Roar, which Exp does not.


expertise is something like 6 or 7 times better than hit because you are eliminating parries and dodges at the same time.
Slightly less than double, for the reasons noted above.


104.8 - chance to be dodge - chance to be parried - chance to miss = crit cap (every attack landed will crit)

and the attack table goes something in the order of:
miss > parry > dodge > block > glancing > crit > hit

^ could be totally wrong on that though, it's been awhile since i looked up how the combat table handles rolls
That is correct for whites (auto attacks). However not correct for Yellow hits (specials) where the majority of our SD chances come from (about a 2-1 ratio).

Yellows are on a 2-roll system, where the attack has to land before it can crit. Hence the value of Exp.

Destruyen
07-08-2011, 10:43 PM
even at 3 total expertise mew.bear and the bear spreadsheet rank expertise equal to or above/below crit.

Katarn
07-08-2011, 11:34 PM
even at 3 total expertise mew.bear and the bear spreadsheet rank expertise equal to or above/below crit.
Like I said, Exp only starts to overtake Crit after you get ~359 gear. It will definitely overtake Crit in FL gear.

Destruyen
07-09-2011, 12:30 AM
in my mostly 372 gear expertise is not quite as good as crit....


Agi: 1
Dodge: 0.5996
Armor: 0.5815
Mastery: 0.4939
Crit: 0.3894
Expertise: 0.3579
Stam: 0.1882
Hit: 0.1789
Strength: 0.1587
Bonus Armor: 0.1323
Haste: 0.0699

Katarn
07-09-2011, 10:01 AM
in my mostly 372 gear expertise is not quite as good as crit....


Agi: 1
Dodge: 0.5996
Armor: 0.5815
Mastery: 0.4939
Crit: 0.3894
Expertise: 0.3579
Stam: 0.1882
Hit: 0.1789
Strength: 0.1587
Bonus Armor: 0.1323
Haste: 0.0699
Whatever incoming boss damage you used to generate those is really, really, really low.

Destruyen
07-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Whatever incoming boss damage you used to generate those is really, really, really low.

default settings.....120k @ 1.8 seconds

Katarn
07-09-2011, 06:01 PM
default settings.....120k @ 1.8 seconds
Yeah that's low for Firelands. Base for FL is at least 150k, probably closer to 165k.

Destruyen
07-09-2011, 07:56 PM
it doesn't change the relation of crit and expertise that drastically the higher the boss dmg goes to support 26 expertise > crit which is my whole point....

Katarn
07-10-2011, 08:35 AM
it doesn't change the relation of crit and expertise that drastically the higher the boss dmg goes to support 26 expertise > crit which is my whole point....
In that case your crit must be really, really low.

Destruyen
07-10-2011, 10:39 AM
In that case your crit must be really, really low.

or you are doing something wrong.

you have still yet to link how you came up with the stat weights you listed....

Katarn
07-14-2011, 11:33 AM
or you are doing something wrong.

you have still yet to link how you came up with the stat weights you listed....
Mew.Bear.

Destruyen
07-15-2011, 06:54 AM
Mew.Bear.

unless mew.bear has been updated very recently, it cannot generate stat values using the bear sim which is why i use the bear spreadsheet over mew.bear

Katarn
07-15-2011, 07:28 AM
unless mew.bear has been updated very recently, it cannot generate stat values using the bear sim which is why i use the bear spreadsheet over mew.bear
It's been able to generate values for a lonnnnnnnng time.