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Lore
06-30-2011, 08:28 AM
gRkmuC69a2E


What's up everybody and welcome back to the Firelands raid guide. My name is Lore, and I'll be guiding you through the 25-man Normal version of the Baleroc encounter.

Baleroc is a one-phase encounter that seems very complicated at first, but once you've gotten the jist of what you're supposed to be doing, everything else just kinda clicks into place. You'll need 2 tanks, 6 healers, and a healthy mix of melee and ranged DPS. You want no fewer than 6 of either to make things as simple as possible.

There are three main mechanics that all work together on this fight, and they're all fairly difficult to understand without first understanding the others. So bear with me as I work through these - everything will make sense at the end.

Let's look at the tank's job first. The primary mechanic for tanks to handle is a debuff called Blaze of Glory. He'll stack this up periodically on whichever tank he's currently attacking. Each stack increases the amount of physical damage you take by 20%, but also increases your maximum health by 20%. On top of that, whenever he applies a stack of Blaze of Glory, regardless of who he applies it to, he also buffs his own Fire damage by 20%.

He'll also occasionally use one of two Blade abilities: Decimation Blade makes him attack much slower, but each attack will do either 250,000 damage OR 90% of your health, whichever number is greater. Obviously, if your health is under 250,000, that's a 1-shot, so you'll need a few stacks of Blaze of Glory to survive it. When he uses Inferno Blade, his melee attacks deal Fire damage instead of Physical damage. Basically that means that instead of dealing with the increased physical damage from your Blaze of Glory stacks, you're now dealing with his own increased Fire damage.

The easiest way we found to handle these mechanics was to have two tanks: one who would only handle Decimation Blade, and another who would tank the boss the rest of the time, including during Inferno Blade. The Decimation Blade tank should pull the boss and only take enough stacks of Blaze of Glory to break the 250k mark. At that point, the other tank taunts and holds onto him. Whenever Baleroc uses Decimation Blade, our Decimation tank taunts, eats the Decimation Blade hits, and then the other tank grabs it back immediately as soon as Decimation Blade ends. This way we have a tank with very high health to be able to survive Inferno Blade, and a tank with much lower health to reduce the amount of healing required for Decimation Blade.

On to DPS. The mechanics that the DPS and healers will manage on this fight are very closely related, so bear with me if some of this doesn't seem to make sense until I get to the healer section. DPS will be the ones managing the Shards of Torment. These are the little pink crystals you see from time to time. He spawns one shard in melee and one shard at range, usually pretty close to where someone is currently standing. You can tell where a shard is about to spawn by the purple pillar of light that appears.

Once a shard is active, it'll latch onto whoever is closest and start stacking up a debuff called Torment. Each stack of Torment does an increasing amount of Shadow damage. You want to let this stack up as high as you possibly can, for two reasons. One is that it helps out your healers, and I'll explain why in the healer section. The other is that as soon as the Torment effect wears off, you get a debuff Tormented. It reduces the healing you do by 50%, which is why healers can't take Torment, and it also increases the shadow damage you take by 250%, which is not only why tanks can't take Torment, but means that you can't take it either until the debuff wears off. It lasts just long enough that you'll only be able to reliably take stacks every 3rd shard. It should only take two players to handle each Shard, so that's why you want at least 6 DPS in melee and 6 DPS at range. Oh, and if you try to just outrange the Shard, it starts AOE'ing the crap out of your raid, so make sure you manage Torment properly. We found it easiest to just set up a simple rotation and have everyone pay attention to when the guy before him starts taking Torment. Make sure you're using defensive cooldowns such as Divine Protection and Dispersion as well - it helps a lot.

As a side note, although the dungeon journal states that you can pass the Tormented debuff to other players by getting too close (that's the one that makes you take extra damage), that wasn't happening for us in our kill. As you can see, we're all just kind of hanging out in melee. Some of us have the debuff and some of us don't. It's possible that that mechanic only occurs on Heroic mode.

Alright healers, it's your turn. Thankfully, your mechanic is a bit simpler to explain, now that we've laid the ground work. Every time you heal someone who currently has stacks of Torment - that's the DPS debuff we were just talking about - you stack up your own debuff called Vital Spark. This is a good thing. You get one Vital Spark for every 3 stacks of Torment on your target, which is why DPS should be stacking it as high as they can. Note that you only get stacks by using a direct heal - AOE heals won't give you anything.

Now, why is that a good thing? Well, as soon as you switch over and heal someone with Blaze of Glory -- that's the tank debuff that increases their health and damage taken -- your Vital Sparks turn into Vital Flame, which increases your healing done by 5% for each stack of Vital Spark you had for 15 seconds. As soon as Vital Flame runs out, you get all your Vital Sparks back, so you can continue building it up from where you left off.

This is how you keep up with the tanks' ever-climbing health pools. As long as the DPS are managing Torment properly, there should only be 3 people taking damage at any point - the current tank, and the two DPS with Torment. So, you can split your healers into groups of 2. At the start, one group should be healing the tank, and the rest should be healing the DPS with Torment to stack up Vital Sparks. Around the same time the DPS do their first Torment swap, the healers should rotate; the two that were healing the tank should start building stacks of Vital Spark, and one of the other groups should move on to the tank. That'll activate their Vital Flame debuff. As soon as that falls off, or is about to, healers should rotate again. The group that's just been building sparks should move over to the tank, and the previous group should begin building sparks again. From then on it's just a matter of rotating every time the current tank healers are about to lose their Vital Flame debuff.

And that's basically the entire fight! Let's do a quick recap. Tanks, one of you will be holding the boss for the majority of the fight, while the other gets just enough stacks of Blaze of Glory to survive Decimation Blade - that's at least 250k health. Make sure you stay away from the Shards of Torment - you really don't want that debuff.

DPS, organize yourselves as much as you see fit and make sure you're handling Torment properly. Remember, you want to hold onto it as long as possible so that the healers can build stacks faster - use your personal defensive cooldowns!

Healers, set yourselves up into groups of 2 and rotate between healing the tank and building up Vital Sparks. And make sure you're watching closely for those purple pillars of light - it doesn't matter how many Sparks you've got if you catch the 50% healing debuff from standing too close to to a Shard.

Fayenoor
06-30-2011, 01:35 PM
Do you need to kill Alysrazor before Baleroc. Or can you go to Baleroc before Alysrazor?

smep
06-30-2011, 01:38 PM
Perhaps you don't know since you did this on 25m, but does anyone know the changes for 10m? Are there really 2 shards happening at once, along with the tank damage?

Lore
06-30-2011, 03:28 PM
There is only 1 shard on 10man. As far as I know all other mechanics are the same. Use a 3-healer rotation instead of 6 healers in groups of 2 (or just 2 healers alternating if you can get away with it).

Zellviren
06-30-2011, 03:45 PM
Thanks for this video, Lore - no offence to the other contributors, but your videos are comfortably the best.

Horacio
06-30-2011, 04:54 PM
Now that I'm raiding again, I am watching videos to prepare and it helps tremendously. Good show, hope we get this clown tonight.

PS Aliena's UI > Lore's UI

Just sayin....

Kahmal
06-30-2011, 08:02 PM
It is interesting how they decided to implement a lot of trash, seems to be there answer to counter the inclusion of only 7 bosses for the tier to make the actual raid last longer.

Despite the QQ cries I doubt Blizzard will nerf the amount of trash until most people are well into the content and it's longevity becomes irrelevant. You also make a great point on how the lack of trash really does mess with the overall feeling of the raid's atmosphere. As opposed to storming through Blackwing Descent's defense it really does feel like Neferian neglected to fortify his fortress for the day lol.

Marcis
06-30-2011, 11:31 PM
I am amazed by the speed Firelands are being cleared...

Lore
07-01-2011, 01:59 AM
There really isn't that much trash, most people have just been trying to kill Shannox first. Either that or they're used to Blackwing Descent and its 1-2 trash pulls per boss, which was stupid. There's no more trash in Firelands than there was in ICC.

Kemanorel
07-01-2011, 05:00 AM
It is no less dangerous than ICC or Ulduar trash at their inception either, most people get a distorted view of trash based on out-gearing familiar content versus, "Oh dear god, not the turtles!"

Motark
07-01-2011, 05:26 AM
We did this on 10 man yesterday with just the dungeon journal.

The mechanics are the same in 10man as in 25man.
- Only 1 shard as mentioned by lore.

Rotate everything as described in the video guide and you should be good.


Trash in front of baleroc isn't that hard. Just keep your char away from baleroc, because you will get hit by little adds spawning from vulcanos knocking you back.
Setup: 2 tank, 3 healers and 5 dps

Keep in mind that the shard will always spawn in melee range at the boss. Using the tol barad trinket with any other self defensive cooldowns to handle the torment helps healers A LOT.
For example a DK with his anti magic shell can stack up to 20+

Savante
07-01-2011, 12:05 PM
There really isn't that much trash, most people have just been trying to kill Shannox first. Either that or they're used to Blackwing Descent and its 1-2 trash pulls per boss, which was stupid. There's no more trash in Firelands than there was in ICC.

why the hell would having fewer trash be stupid? explain it to me please.

Yoakie
07-01-2011, 02:30 PM
Everything boils down to good healing/tanking/DPS assignment. Make sure to divide your healers in groups and let them take turns in healing the raid/MT. A good guide about this can be found at http://25man.com/firelands/baleroc. This guide shows good pointers for Baleroc. Worth the read!

Aggathon
07-01-2011, 02:40 PM
why the hell would having fewer trash be stupid? explain it to me please.

A couple reasons. A) Trash is a time sync that purposefully slows down progression. If you have fewer bosses you need more trash for the time to clear an instance to be roughly equivalent. B) More trasn also increases the chance for crafting patterns. Last tier didn't have any crafted patterns in raid, but now that there are a lot that drop off trash, you need more trash in order to collect them all. If there was only 1 or 2 mobs before each boss would dramatically decrease the probability of getting them per raid lockout. C) Reputation. In firelands there is an associated reputation and trash is a huge part of that. If there weren't any trash, the time it takes to grind the reputation would be incredibly low.

While I too hate trash and am going to get sick of clearing it really quick, it does serve a purpose. Also, there is a correlation in my head between the worst 2 instances ever and the amount of trash: ToC and TotFW. I actually hate TotFW more than ToC, and neither have trash. Causation might not be there, but the correlation is.

Edit: if you want to talk more about it send me a PM, but this thread is about Baleroc.

Savante
07-01-2011, 09:51 PM
Tier 11 had neither reputation gained from trash, nor any crafting recipes. So having fewer trash is NOT stupid. Also "If you have fewer bosses you need more trash for the time to clear an instance to be roughly equivalent. " I dont agree with this opinion. Blizz should not make it equivalent with trash. Having to clear trash because there are fewer bosses is just stupid since I dont think trash is fun as much as boss encounters.
I'm sure most of the trash supporters are supporting trash with the classic lame "blizz game is too easy now.. back in my days we had to clear 3487 trash to kill a boss ffs" logic. I'm playing since TBC and I dont want blizz to make the game easy mode too but please be reasonable instead of trying to look cool. Encounters are fun. They are not that easy and FUN. Thats what matters, not trash.

Occams_Razor
07-04-2011, 10:52 AM
With how specialized the mechanics are for the boss, it seems unlikely that the trash acts as a good learning area relating the mechanics (like some of the trash in t11 did a great job of). But as someone who hasn't gotten this far yet, I'm curious if tanks are finding this similar to the Chimearon fight if done with one tank eating the breaks. Thanks in advance!

P.S. The logic of wanting more trash, at least in Lore's case, is more aesthetic than "back in the old days...grumble grumble grumble." Blackwing Descent didn't feel very heroic with a handful of trash packs. I felt more like a burglar taking some poor blokes stuff.:rolleyes:

Mahananaka
07-05-2011, 10:47 PM
But as someone who hasn't gotten this far yet, I'm curious if tanks are finding this similar to the Chimearon fight if done with one tank eating the breaks. Thanks in advance!

Somewhat the Decimation Blade is definitely the harder to heal blade from what our healers said for most of the fight. Due to having to put out 234k+ healing between the hits. Its very very slow between attacks I think it was like 5 seconds between hits.

I found that there is some luck to it. Not that its ever not doable but the fight is significantly easier the less decimation blades you get. I had an attempt that I got it back to back as the first 2 blades and it sucks. The reason, every time I tanked the decimation blade I took 1 extra stack of Blaze of Glory (comes between first and second hit). So at the end when I had just under 400k health I was very hard to heal during decimation blade. Haven't tried a fast taunt swap in the middle to avoid but it might be possible but would take good timing.

In the last 15% of the fight the the MT had so much health and was taking so much dmg that he just became very hard to heal they said. Basically the dmg the MT takes scales slightly faster than the healing buff the healers get. I believe this is also cause when I'd get an extra stack during decimation blade, the boss would deal greater fire dmg but the MT wouldn't have the benefit of the extra health. Our Healers started having troubles at 23 stacks on the MT. I was up to 6 stacks at this point as the OT. He was taking 330k hits during normal periods (no blade active).

TLDR; yes similar to chimaeron but also different in other ways. I had a 1;30 second period I didn't even have to touch the boss as the decimation tank.

Outbackjack
07-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Our Holy Paladin was having trouble last week with the Vital Spark stacking and we were at a loss as to why he wasn't gaining stacks like our other healers. I read something during the PTR (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2516692739#11) about Beacon interfering with Vital Spark application if a Paladin healed a player with Torment and a tank with Blaze of Glory at the same time. Is this still the case? Is this working as intended and should he not place Beacon on the tank? Or am I completely misunderstanding the mechanic?

Rawer
07-07-2011, 02:24 AM
I hear that there's an Enrage ?! Is there in normal mode ? And what type of enrage is it ? (wipes whole raid or members one by one ?)

Motark
07-07-2011, 06:10 AM
After 6 minutes the boss will go berserk, killing your raid 1 by 1. You may have 10 more seconds until your whole Raid will be dead.

klausi
07-07-2011, 06:55 AM
After 6 minutes the boss will go berserk, killing your raid 1 by 1. You may have 10 more seconds until your whole Raid will be dead.
This is how Method most likely got their kill. During Berserk (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=26662) he's taunt immune, his damage is increased by 500% and movement/attackspeed by 150% but that's it, only making kiting/taunting back & forth impossible. Dispersion/Deterrence/Evasion/Guardian Spirit/Ardent Defender/Mirror Images should all work nontheless - buying your raid loads of time and greatly decreasing the dps requirements (looks like Method used 2 tanks + 5 healers).

Serbian
07-07-2011, 09:40 AM
I've got one question,since our guild is preparing for this fight tonight.
How many stacks of Torment is maximum per one crystal on a single player.
Reading the abilities it leads me to conclusion that it'll be 30 stacks since one is being applied per seconds,but I've been checking forums and various "guides" where people report it's 25 stacks/crystal spawn.

Thanks in advance.

Ion
07-07-2011, 09:50 AM
I've got one question,since our guild is preparing for this fight tonight.
How many stacks of Torment is maximum per one crystal on a single player.
Reading the abilities it leads me to conclusion that it'll be 30 stacks since one is being applied per seconds,but I've been checking forums and various "guides" where people report it's 25 stacks/crystal spawn.

Thanks in advance.

I've only done it on 10 man, I don't know if it's different in 25 man, however: there were 25 stacks total per crystal for us. At about 10 it starts getting a little sketchy...at 13 it is A LOT of damage. If you try to go past that without a cooldown up (frex, Dispersion) you'll almost certainly get killed. It's definitely doable with two people taking 12/13 each...but you definitely can't have one person take one himself.

Serbian
07-07-2011, 10:01 AM
What I was thinking is to use one shadow priest per crystal,since we've got four of them active in our raids! :)
Basically first two spawns of crystals would be covered with those 4 shadow priests using Dispersion (glyphed) ~19 stacks in order to survive heavy damage from Torment.
Third spawn of crystals would be covered with 2x melee (enhancement shaman and dk for example) and 2x ranged (lets say warlocks with Nether protection) one taking 12ish stacks each.
After 3rd wave it'd be back again to shadow priests rotation.

squats
07-07-2011, 10:32 AM
IMO your overcomplicating a simple mechanic. just pair 2 dps together. one with a damage CD, and one without, if possible.

Ion
07-07-2011, 10:46 AM
IMO your overcomplicating a simple mechanic. just pair 2 dps together. one with a damage CD, and one without, if possible.

That.

The only possible reason to use dispersion to stack it way up is if your healers suck and need a ton of stacks to keep the tanks alive...and even then it's of extremely minimal extra value, especially since it's kind of a dps check fight.

Porthos
07-07-2011, 03:44 PM
Any insight on how the Vital Flame buff affects Disc Priests?

And does the Decimation Blade damage get calculated before mitigation / bubbles / resitances? or is it just going to be 90%/250k when it hits you.

Halandir
07-08-2011, 09:49 AM
Some data from our baleroc 25man wipes last night (sub 1%! bah).

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/gallery/59090/balerocdmgtaken6507.jpg

Adding up the regular Melee swings and the Inferno Strike as the MT during all attempts (the inferno strike can be mitigated and avoided like the normal melee swings) I took 1,080 swings from the boss. Of those 1080, only 138 (13%) went through as un-blocked hits. The damage amounts are meaningless, the important elements of the parse are the percentages of avoidance and mitigation. (also: this data is from wiped attempts, so obviously there were some points where I was actively TRYING to die which skews the numbers a little bit. Until we kill him this is all I have to work with though).

During the inferno blade phase, which is where I'm taking the most damage, I faced 119 swings and saw 22 of them (18%) go through unblocked (compared to only 12% unblocked hits during melee swing phases). I need to manage my shieldblock uptime better to increase my block % during inferno blade phases, while still maximizing shieldblock uptime overall. I also had decreased avoidance streaks during inferno blade - perhaps the inferno blade doesn't have a chance to miss like the normal melee swings do (as you can see from the parse).

I'm trying to figure out whether it would be better to stack avoidance or mastery as the MT for this fight. My theory is that mitigation still is superior, since while the MT's health is increased, so are the heals incoming due to the buff. While the numbers are changing, the percentages still remain roughly the same.

As the OT, maximizing avoidance is HUGE as you have a better chance to dodge the decimating strike (250k or 90% of your hp, whichever is more). We have me as the MT due to my higher mitigation while one of our two druids serves as the OT due to his higher avoidance.



And does the Decimation Blade damage get calculated before mitigation / bubbles / resitances? or is it just going to be 90%/250k when it hits you.

In response to this: the decimation blade "can't be mitigated through normal means" (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=99352/decimation-blade) so while it can be avoided entirely through dodge/parry/miss (our OT dodged 43.2% of the strikes over the course of our wipes on the boss last night), I don't believe it can be mitigated or resisted. However, some absorbs seem to work... in our case with a druid the absorbs shown below were probably his own + the pally and disc priest absorb mechanics. I'm pretty sure the damage is calculated prior to absorb effects.

http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/gallery/59090/dmgtakendecimate8159.jpg

Baba
07-11-2011, 06:53 PM
Is it just me, or are some healing classes a bit screwed by this fight? Been working on 10 man with 2 druid heals, they don't have fast and instant direct heals like a holy pally and they just can't stack up their stacks fast enough it seems.

klausi
07-11-2011, 08:15 PM
Actually resto druids are best for stacking their buffs on him due to lower gcd on their hots :) It actually depends more on your dps, how long they manage to survive with torment. The longer they stay there, the more stacks you get (no linear process!). Warlock (especially Destruction for Nether Ward..), DKs (only with ams + ibf) and Shadowpriests are outstanding for this. On 25m some shadowpriests actually take a full circle (25s!) thanks to external cooldowns and dispersion near the end.

Finally managed to beat him with a warrior tank... Decimating Strike mechanic and the possibility to avoid (dodge/parry) it is really meh. He hits like a (actually more like two!) trucks outside of the Decimating Strike phase so just stacking mass avoidance didn't work for me. I ended up with 4 piece T11 (needed the more seconds on shieldwall for our healing buff stacking strategy) and 32% raidbuffed dodge+parry & Valiona's on use dodge trinket (+TB, the resistance are always handy for the Inferno Strikes with no shieldblock up). If you can bring any other tank, just do it!

- Druids mass-avoidance turns out pretty well, sadly they have some issues with their mastery scaling. Enraged regen glyph works wonders (+30% healing received).
- DK vamp blood glyphed (+40% healing received) + DRW up for every Decimating Strike and Death Strike works on the increased hitpoints as well!
- Paladin, sadly LoH won't work on Decimating Strike - but Ardent Defender will (same for Holy Priest's Guardian Spirit) and block works on everything (including Inferno Strike!) except Decimating Strike

Enrage timer is perfectly tuned, you need about 25k dps on average on all your raiders (+15k tank) with two healers. That's barely manageable with 372 decked raiders and will become easier if you aquire more 378/391 loot, especially 2 piece T12 and so on.

Ps: his shield is ugly as hell!
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7762/baleshield.jpg

Hinkakan
07-12-2011, 03:17 AM
We did this on 10man normal last week, havent tried out heroic yet.

It is rediculously easy on normal. We used 6 people for stacks, each taking around 7 stacks. all 5 dps, plus a discpriests, since his shields arent affected by the buff.

Had a warr tank during the normal tanking, and a dk for decimating blade.

The dps did around 20-25k dps each, had no problems with enrage timer.

This boss joins in a line of bosses that are sadly easy on normal imo, hopefully heroic will prove more of a challenge.

Zellviren
07-14-2011, 04:51 AM
To answer the earlier post regarding a bug with Holy paladins:Yes.It appears said bug still persists - our healing set up last night was two Holy paladins and a shaman (imperfect, but it was all we had last night). Due to what must be a bug on their Beacon of Light, both were utterly out of mana by around 60%. On our first-reset kill we had a druid, a shaman and a priest healing - none of which had any problems whatsoever.It would be nice if Blizzard, you know, started releasing content that wasn't broken.

Zegai
07-14-2011, 07:34 AM
Shields are affected by Vital Flame.

As for the shard, I can take a full shard on a fury warrior, provided I shield wall the last 12s and get one or two raid cooldowns to ease the healing. It makes the fight a lot easier as well, since our healers (two of the three) stack 50+ on this first shard.

Bung
07-14-2011, 12:10 PM
My guild finally figured out how to do this last night. On 25 man you want 3 groups of 2 in melee and 3 groups of 2 in ranged since 1 crystal forms in melee and 1 in range. A pair of people take on each crystal allowing 12-13 stacks a person. The trickiest part of the fight is the healing and each group of dps should use some sort of self heal around 10 stacks, especially on the first round of crystals. The healers are divided among the 6 total groups of dps. One healer per group of two dps. When the people assigned are taking damage they heal them and if they are not they heal the tanks. Because the dps are getting healed with 12-13 stacks the healers get their healing buff quickly and are able to keep up for the rest of the fight.

freddyferocious
07-14-2011, 12:23 PM
If you have a DK tank (that's actually worth a damn) you can single tank this on both 10 and 25man. Make sure they time their death strikes optimally (as they should be doing anyway). During decimation blade, pop AMS (glyphed for extra time) and VB (glyphed as well). If you time your AMS to pop just before the first strike of decimation, you will absorb at least 2 full strikes, possibly 3. Have VB up for your healers to get you topped off faster. Rune tap once you take damage and you should have a decent death strike heal. If you are doing it right, you should have insanely huge blood shields (at one point towards the end of the fight I had one up for 2.1 mil)

klausi
07-15-2011, 07:29 AM
This sounds a lot like theory. I don't even know if AMS is capable of absorbing Decimating strikes altogether. But whatever, AMS is capped at 50% of the DK's hitpoints. With one strike eating 90% of your hitpoints away it could only last one (half) hit. VP works whatsoever, it's really awesome for those "ASDF%$ top him!!1" phase. Deathstrike don't work regulary during a Decimating Blade phase, at least your heal is neutered after a hit (however i'm not sure if this has an impact on your Blood Shield).

On heroic 10m you'll have to tank him with one tank anyways, but you might want to save AMS for
a) Inferno Blade
b) if your healer can't bring you back up in time after the first actual hit (with popped DRW and geared for avoidance you should end up at about 55-60% avoidance for heroic), so they only have to heal 50% up - assuming that it works

Ps: block works on Inferno Blade, Shield Block is just awesome for this phase :)

Takethecake
07-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Anyone tried specing impending victory for this? I know the talent is extremely lackluster, but glyphed it should give you around a 8.5% heal, 1-2 of them between a decimation would help I'm sure.

Zegai
07-15-2011, 01:09 PM
I doubt it helps much.. it will only work on the last 20%, so it's probably a once-a-fight thing, and if you don't have both glyphs for it, you'll depend on several procs in a row in a small number of GCDs.

Of course, if you are wiping on the last few percent, this might help you - but probably as much as depending on a lucky dodge/parry/miss on the second decimation blade hit.

freddyferocious
07-16-2011, 08:24 AM
Well I'm not trying to argue with you guys, I'm just saying that I'm a Blood DK tank, and I've downed him on both 10 and 25 man single tanking him. I pop ams during decimation blade and only take a 90% hit once, at the end. Was just trying to offer a helpful suggestion is all

freddyferocious
07-16-2011, 08:50 AM
Damage Taken





Melee (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w377x89chj44v23g/spell/0/?s=14417&e=14748)
30778846
69.6 %
109
282374.7
30778846
-
11063788

21
32
9
35
47.1 %


Inferno Strike (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w377x89chj44v23g/spell/101000/?s=14417&e=14748)
8489938
19.2 %
16
530621.1
8489938
-
4156149


6

1
30.4 %


Decimating Strike (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w377x89chj44v23g/spell/99353/?s=14417&e=14748)
4985233
11.3 %
9
553914.8
4985233
00:29 (9.0 %)
972539


2

7
50.0 %



44254017
100%
134
330253.9
44254017

-

113 (45.7 %)






^^25 man damage taken by me

Damage Taken





Melee (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fb937kpx1qa1km80/spell/0/?s=4079&e=4372)
16051820
72.0 %
108
148628.0
16051820
-
4045046

13
24
8
29
40.7 %


Decimating Strike (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fb937kpx1qa1km80/spell/99353/?s=4079&e=4372)
3748741
16.8 %
5
749748.2
3748741
00:19 (6.8 %)
1049964


1


16.7 %


Inferno Strike (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fb937kpx1qa1km80/spell/99351/?s=4079&e=4372)
2504746
11.2 %
10
250474.6
2504746
-
1062494


7

7
58.3 %



22305307
100%
123
181344.0
22305307

-

89 (42.0 %)





10man damage taken by me.

So going over these it doesnt seem like AMS absorbed as much as I originally thought, but it DOES absorb some. Our 25 man kill I had absorbed roughly 20% of the damage from decimation strike, although it did seem like he throws out more strikes on 25 man than he does on 10. 10 man, if I counted correctly, was 3 strikes per rotation, 25 man seemed more like 4-5

Stompyomouf
07-17-2011, 08:49 PM
Assuming for 10m we have 2 tanks and 3 healers, how would you recommend we handle the 6 person rotation of the crystal? I see the posts about 1 tanking, and our healers are probably going to be a Druid, Disc/Holy priest (he could do either), and a shammy. Do you recommend we 1 tank it or try and have one of the DPS take the entire duration?

Narina
07-18-2011, 01:23 AM
Some tips we learned that really made this encounter a breeze.

1 tank this fight, if you do the healing methods i mention there is just no reason not too.

Set up your 3 healers as follows: Healers A- On whoever has the most stacks of torment until a Decimation Blade comes down. B- Heals the first torment person, then the tank until healer A has desired stacks C- Starts on boss, then switches to torment people after first crystal.

For the very first crystal you want to get the stacks REALLY high on the first dps to take torment. This is ideal if you have a shadow priest (dispersion glyphed). A shadow priest can take an entire crystal himself, have him disperse at 19 stacks (as soon as it hits 19). With 2 healers dedicated to healing him spamming quick heals (to gather stacks) keeps him up. A healer CD helps a lot too, such as Pain Suppression. If you use another class have them get to 18 stacks before switching. This will get healer stacks up REALLY QUICK. Our two healers healing the shadow priest on first crystal both got to 80+ stacks.

Healers can use big heals early because they should stack torment so high they are just using low cost spells from then on.

Just to give you an idea: a spriest taking the entire crystal (25 stacks) with a disc priest (me) gathering stacks. I penanced at 6 stacks/15 stacks/24 stacks on the spriest, used regular heal until he was at 11 stacks, then spammed flash heal in the middle (I used Pain Supression at 14 stacks, he dispersed at 19 stacks). I had 80 stacks after first crystal. Our pally said he gets to about 85.

Then I switched to healing tank while our resto druid and pally got some stacks. Pally switched to tank for Decimate Blades. I healed (at 80 stacks) until the pally got to 150 stacks, then he took over on tank and I went back to stack gathering. At the end of the fight I was helping again on Decimate blades, but otherwise the pally never had issues.

Mahananaka
07-18-2011, 11:44 AM
Couple of people have gotten a few things wrong about the Vital spark stacks. First of all as it works currently its 1 stack gained per 3 stacks of torment the target has. Thus healing a person with 9 stacks of torment only = 3 stacks of vital spark. Secondly druids don't have any special powers on this fight that make them stronger because it requires direct heals, thus hots do not grant stacks. Though the direct heal part of regrowth and the bloom of lifebloom are considered direct heals as usual.

From a druid perspective the largest annoyance of this fight is having to pull your lifebloom off the tank. While you have your healing buff active you cannot gain more vital spark stacks. The buff lasts 15 seconds from when you first direct heal the MT, and cannot be refreshed early. However if you accidentally use direct heal .1 seconds after your buff goes away you're basically committed to tank healing for another 15 seconds, it cannot be removed early. Thus our group found that the person healing the tank was best to call swaps on heal targets that way you maximized your buff stacking. Lastly when your 15 second healing buff falls of you regain your vital spark stacks you had.

Also there seems to be a lot of confusion in 10mode on the tormented crystals. Each crystal will deal 30 stacks. The debuff lasts 40 seconds. There is 5 dps to rotate, and there is like 3-5 seconds of downtime between crystals. This means the first person will start their 40 second timer and then 4 other will take 10 stacks each = 40 seconds of real time + 3 second gap between crystals means the first person is ready to take stacks again 3 seconds before s/he needs to be. Which means the "Alpha" person will tack the first stacks of the first crystal and will be ready to take the final stacks of the second crystal. The "Beta" person will take the second set of stacks of the first crystal, and will be able to take the first stacks of the third crystal. The only purpose to going higher than 10 stacks is to help healers get an early lead on vital spark stacks.

Narina
07-19-2011, 12:27 AM
Druids definitely seem to be at a disadvantage in this fight. We run druid/disc/hpally and the druid was much slower in gathering stacks.

I have to disagree with the poster above about the torment crystals though. They definitely gave off 25 stacks for us during the encounter. We had a spriest take the entire first crystal (max 25 stacks), 2 dps 12/13 stacks switch take crystal B and C, then back to spriest with dispersion up. Without a spriest you could use a 4 person rotation, we just used 5 because it made dispersion off CD again. Again, I HIGHLY recommend letting your first torment taker get to at least 18 stacks to help healers, beyond that you can do 12/13. We were comfortable with 2 people splitting the stacks, but I read some guilds prefer having 3 dps split the crystal. Seems like that would slow healers down a good deal to me though.

Stompyomouf
07-19-2011, 04:35 PM
Well we got him on the first night, thanks for all the advice.What worked for us on 10m was 2 tanks, 3 heals. The two tanks allowed us to be able to heal the decimation tank in one cast after about 30 decode of stack building. We rotated the healers so that there was always 2 on torment and one on the tank with vital flame.I can see the one tank strat being easier on 25m thou and I think we will try that.

ugadal
07-20-2011, 02:45 AM
Hello all,

Regarding Blaze of glory, I'm wondering about the +20% health/damage increase, is it additive or multiplicative ?
Practically, does the tank's health go as such : 200k-240k-280k-320K-360K-400K .. or 200k-240k-288K-345K-414K-500K...
(example numbers for a tank of 200K), this turns into a dramatic difference after 2 minutes...

From my own few down experiments(3) I'm in favor of the second hypothesis, since our tank had ~500k health after 1 minute, right prior to second lame, that would mean 5 blazes of glory / minutes. It seems that the two tanks strategy urges the decimation-tank to stack 3 blazes in roughly 30 second, until the first lame ends, so to say in agreement with the 5 blazes/min rythm hypothesis.
I'm definitely lacking combat logs for this event.

Personally I'm in favor of testing the 2 tank strat, just to allow healers of getting ahead and start healing a "fresh" tank, but I'm wondering about the inferno lame, already 3 times buffed and applied on a tank not buffed.

Concerning Method's HM down, do you understand what happens to their tank at roughly 7'50 ? his max health is at 1.3M and suddenly raises to 3.5M; then he dies...

Bemxuu
07-21-2011, 10:04 AM
I had a question regarding Decimation. If it really does damage unmitigated 90%hp/250k damage, doesn't that meant that it is a good idea to have a hybrid bear/cat to tank in bear form during the D. Blade phase and shift to cat afterwards? You don't need any stamina on gems/enchants due to Blaze of Glory and you would appreciate all the agi gems/chants for the dodge. Sound like hybrid bear/cat for me.

Mwawka
07-21-2011, 10:24 AM
Druids definitely seem to be at a disadvantage in this fight. We run druid/disc/hpally and the druid was much slower in gathering stacks.

I have to disagree with the poster above about the torment crystals though. They definitely gave off 25 stacks for us during the encounter. We had a spriest take the entire first crystal (max 25 stacks), 2 dps 12/13 stacks switch take crystal B and C, then back to spriest with dispersion up. Without a spriest you could use a 4 person rotation, we just used 5 because it made dispersion off CD again. Again, I HIGHLY recommend letting your first torment taker get to at least 18 stacks to help healers, beyond that you can do 12/13. We were comfortable with 2 people splitting the stacks, but I read some guilds prefer having 3 dps split the crystal. Seems like that would slow healers down a good deal to me though.

If you play it right given you have a spriest, the druid should actually be at an advantage. We used a warrior with chained and overlapping cd's to get the first shard to 25 stacks on one player. Healers were disc/shammy/druid. Being the druid was actually fantastic for this fight. We had the shammy heal the tanks through the first shard with the priest and I built stacks. We hit BL when the first shard spawned and I popped tree form and SM then Nourish to 9 stacks of torment. I pre rejuv the two tanks and warrior so I get speedy nourish for most of this part of the fight. Then at nine stacks, pop ToL and spam Regrowth til the end of the first torment. This gets me to between 90-100 stacks which is all I need for the rest of the fight and the disc priest was getting between 60 and 70. At that point we both switched to tanks and shammy switched to shard healing. We then rotated dps on the shard at 8 stacks of torment.

I was oom at the end of the first shard, but popped innervate and never came close to running out of mana for the rest of the fight as for the most part I just rolled LB and spammed nourish. Took target switching out of play for the healers and simplified the fight. I'm quite sure we could have easily done this same strat with one tank, but we played with two to be safe.

Migol
07-21-2011, 11:43 AM
Question, does anyone know if Ardent Defender/Guardian Spirit work against Decimation blade, IE as insurance in case your healers can't heal the soak tank up fast enough?

Grakzul Slaughtbringer
07-22-2011, 02:16 AM
Migol : I do not know for those specific spells but Shield Wall doesn't mitigate the decimation blade.

My guild killed him fir the third time yesterday, I was tanking him for the first time. They usually bring a DK tank and fight him with only one tank. But healers were unable to keep me alive as a solo tank. They just couldn't top me between two decimation blades hits. This was kind of frustrating because my ilvl is 369, so not a gear issue, and I manage my SB cooldowns quite well.

So we brought a second tank, did exactly as explained in the video guide and killed him immediately with ease. Not sure doing Baleroc with only one tank is useful as it becomes quite unpredictable for the healers. Maybe in a few weeks with a raid in full Firelands stuff...

Calleana
07-22-2011, 05:07 AM
@ Migol- Ardent defender definately works to save you from a death. We found a consistant method for the decimation blade was a slight variation on the 2 tank strat.

If the Druid OT got hit by a decimation blade MT taunted and took the next hit (for the first decimation blade I used Ardent defender as I didn't have enough Blaze stacks). This gave our healers enough time to heal the druid back up to full.

bigredslayer
07-22-2011, 08:26 AM
I'm quite sure we could have easily done this same strat with one tank, but we played with two to be safe.

Thanks for your Druid insight on this fight we did this fight for the first time last night with a paladin single tanking it and had no trouble using your strat! Our druid ended up doing 40k HPS on the fight!

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-08vy7jrwkyx6gmx5/sum/healingDone/?s=2070&e=2418

Pacans
07-27-2011, 12:01 AM
What happens if healer leave something like Earth Shield on tank or Riptide few second before he have to switch? Does they trigger Vital Flame? What's with Druid hots left on tanks?

Nachtwolf
07-28-2011, 06:44 AM
...

If the Druid OT got hit by a decimation blade MT taunted and took the next hit (for the first decimation blade I used Ardent defender as I didn't have enough Blaze stacks). This gave our healers enough time to heal the druid back up to full.

we basically did the same..

on our first kill both our tanks (paly main, warrior for decimation taunting) had about 260k hitpoints with 2 blazes.. so we started with warrior tank on boss, taking the first 2 blazes, paly taunting taking his first blaze .. then on inferno blade paly stayed, on decimation blade warrior taunted and took first hit, paly taunted immediatly after the first hit and therefore got the blaze in between the first 2 decimation hits, took the 2nd hit .. warrior taunted back for 3rd hit and paly took over again after that...

we repeated that taunt-orgy on each decimation blade so warrior tank stayed on 2 blazes the whole fight, paly tank got much higher hitpoints than without it too ..

basically that gave our healers 10 seconds to get warrior back to full hp after taking the first decimation hit, and a few hots were more than enough to get him back to max hp before the next decimation blade

forgive me if this description is bad.. i'm a bit tired right now at work :P

lubz
07-28-2011, 01:05 PM
Edit: redundant

notyourtank
07-29-2011, 02:56 PM
My guild did this the other night and I want you know if you guys agree with our assesment that Hpallys have a slight advantage in this fight. We came to this conclusion after realizing that beacon healing on the tank does not start the 15 second timer so Hpally could beacon the tank and solo heal the dps currently taking damage from the crystals. This we did till I had 30 stacks (which happend very fast) Then I moved to heal the tanks while the other healers continued to build there stacks. Finally we reverted to everyone healing as normal starting at about 60% which is where we where at when the stacks where done being built to needed amounts. We where obviously running the 10 man version.

Mystestorm
08-01-2011, 04:54 AM
Can one kill Baleroc before Rhyolith?

dgdr1991
08-01-2011, 05:57 AM
Can one kill Baleroc before Rhyolith?

Yes, you can. We did it that way, I believe it is actually easier if you have good healers and enough gear to beat the enrage timer.

ferdy30
08-16-2011, 07:35 PM
Our group started this today and are having some problems. So for the crystals we were trying to have 4 dps just rotate (this is in 10 man).
Crystal 1 spaws: Player A takes 10 stacks then Player B takes 10 stacks, then Player C finishes.
Crystal 2 spawns: Player D takes 10 stacks then back to player A etc.
Only problem is that when Player A is supposed to hop on the second crystal he still has the Tormented debuff. Are we doing this rotation wrong.

Also with druids...what is the best way for them to heal when it is their turn to heal the ppl that are taking the crystal stacks.

Quinafoi
08-17-2011, 10:01 PM
You should just split a crystal in half, don't ever assign 3 people to a single crystal. Additionally, you have to wait the for at least one crystal before you take it again.

In 10 man for healing in general (assuming 3 healing) you will want to have two healers continually alternate each crystal between tank healing and torment healing while your third healer simply continues to build up stacks of of the buff in preparation for decimation blade or if the other tank healers fall too far behind (only heals when needed but ends up with significantly higher stacks). Since he no longer can pick to cast decimation blade first, extreme measures such as burning heroism at the start for higher stacks isn't really necessary anymore but could still help particularlly if combined with a DPS that can tank the entire crystal (i.e. Shadow Priest with the Tol Barad trinket).

As for general advice for a druid healer. Well if you're the person who is just generating stacks constantly and only healing tanks when necessary then you can at least keep a Rejuvenation on the active tank as it won't trigger Vital Flame. You should try to avoid using Lifebloom however on the tanks unless you are managing it very well cause if you allow it to bloom it will trigger preventing you from stacking. When you see decimation blade warning the first thing you do is cast Regrowth on the decimation blade tank in order to activate Vital Flame so that your following heals will be buffed a common mistake a druid may make is to get unbuffed HoTs up first and hit a Swiftmend that only heals for the normal amount as the first heal to actually proc the Vital Flame buff. If you're in the role of constantly switching back and forth between tank healing and torment healing then you will want to avoid using Lifebloom on the tanks because it can delay your swaping back to stacking the buff and should primarily be using direct heals and rejuvenation.

As for healing the torment itself it's really simple. Damage starts slow so slower heals like Nourish are fine, also until they actually have a few stacks you aren't gaining very much in terms of buff stacks anyway. As the damage ramps up you switch to larger and faster heals of Healing Touch, Regrowth, and Swiftmend. People who have the tendency of dying or classes with less survivability against the crystal you may want to use the first GCD or two to preplant some HoTs to assist with the increased damage they will be taking at the end.

Tsy
08-19-2011, 11:38 AM
Our group started this today and are having some problems. So for the crystals we were trying to have 4 dps just rotate (this is in 10 man).
Crystal 1 spaws: Player A takes 10 stacks then Player B takes 10 stacks, then Player C finishes.
Crystal 2 spawns: Player D takes 10 stacks then back to player A etc.
Only problem is that when Player A is supposed to hop on the second crystal he still has the Tormented debuff. Are we doing this rotation wrong.

Also with druids...what is the best way for them to heal when it is their turn to heal the ppl that are taking the crystal stacks.

Split it 12/13 instead of 10/10/5 and you'll be fine

Buyakha
08-28-2011, 08:39 AM
I have a couple of questions: (10m N)
1. Can a shadow priest with the Glyph of Dispersion can Soak entirely First crystal and be ready to entirely soak third?
2. What other classes can entirely soak the crystals?
3. When do tanks need to taunt of each other?

Quinafoi
08-28-2011, 11:13 AM
I have a couple of questions: (10m N)
1. Can a shadow priest with the Glyph of Dispersion can Soak entirely First crystal and be ready to entirely soak third?
If they also have another cooldown such as the Mirror of Broken Images in order to get them to the higher stacks before using dispersion then yes. Dispersion has to be used at the very end to deal with the highest amount of stacks, 19-25. However that means you have to live up to that point without it. At 17 stacks, it ticks for 68,000 damage. At 18, 72,000 damage. Going between stacks 10 and 18 you will average out to about 56,000 DPS pre resist (base resistence from Shadow Resist buff will put you at 20% resist so 44,800 DPS). If you have a Decimation Blade occuring at the same time the Shadow Priest won't live through it cause a single healer left on the DPS won't be able to do the necessary 44,800 HPS average that continues to ramp up beyond that. With the Mirror of Broken Images however, the increased resistence results in an additional 31% taken off (increase from 20% resist to 45% resist is a 31% reduction in damage). So by using that trinket you reduce the average HPS to 30,912 HPS which is possible for a single healer.

On to the second part of the question, can they take the third shard? No. That's because if they end the first shard the Tormented debuff won't be off them at the start of the third shard. When you end a shard there needs to be about one and a half shards before you start again in order for your Tormented to fall off. If you use a Shadow Priest to solo one then you'd still have two teams of two DPS to fill the shards between.

Shadow Priest
Team A, Two DPS
Team B, Two DPS

Your rotation would look like that and your shadow priest wouldn't be tanking the third shard but rather every third shard which is 1, 4, 7, 10 and so on.


2. What other classes can entirely soak the crystals?
None can do so at a comparable level to a Shadow Priest. Keep in mind, at like 20 stacks it is 80,000 DPS. If Decimation Blade is occuring at the same time can one healer keep up with 80,000 HPS? Even using other major cooldowns such as Shield Wall which is a 40% reduction , the sheer amount of DPS being dealt at the higher stacks is unhealable for a single healer. You would actually need multiple stacked cooldowns in order to survive such as Shield Wall with a Pain Suppression stacked on the latter half. Dispersion is a 90% damage reduction with no limitations on the amount of damage it reduces, no other cooldown is that powerful. A Shadow Priest's cooldown alone turns that 80,000 DPS in to 8,000 DPS which is trivial easy to heal. No one but a Shadow Priest can actually deal with the highest levels of stacks unless you have multiple external cooldowns being used and stacked. I used Shield Wall as an example because a 40% damage reduction with no damage limit is the largest possible reduction other than the Shadow Priest's Dispersion (if glyphed it could be 60% but then the cooldown would be longer). 40% is not even remotely close to as strong as 90% so you need to stack multiple cooldowns for anyone else to survive.


3. When do tanks need to taunt of each other?
The main tank taunts off the Decimation Blade tank as soon as they have enough stacks to survive Decimating Strike (2 or 3 depending on their health). They continue to tank at all times except when Decimation Blade is used at which point the Decimation Blade tank taunts and takes the three swings before the main tank taunts back. The Decimation Blade tank starts the encounter tanking in order to aquire the initial stacks they need to survive a Decimating Strike.

Quinafoi
08-28-2011, 11:58 AM
Here is a little side by side comparison for you... we'll assume in both cases the Mirror of Broken Images trinket was used to get into the higher stacks so won't include that in the stack.

Shadow Priest
Resist Buff (-20%) + Shadow Form (-15%) + Dispersion (-90%) = 93.2% Reduction

Warrior
Aura Mastery Resist Buff (-35%) + Defensive Stance (-10%) + Glyphed Shield Wall (-60%) + Pain Suppression (-40%) + Power Word: Barrier (-25%) + Divine Guardian (-20%) + Spirit Link (-10%) + = 92.4184% Reduced Damage

Shadow Priest Wins

Mwawka
08-28-2011, 01:28 PM
I have a couple of questions: (10m N)
2. What other classes can entirely soak the crystals?


We have a Spriest in our group now, but we didn't when we started killing Baleroc. We used a warrior with chained CD's for the first crystal, but it's really only good for the first one. Honestly, on normal mode, you should only need to do it once if the healers do their job properly, as certain classes can easily get up around 100 stacks by the end of the first crystal. That said, Spriests are by far the easiest class to do this with, requiring the least amount of external cd's and with the added viability of being able to soak multiple crystals during the fight.

Narina
08-29-2011, 10:29 AM
I have a couple of questions: (10m N)
1. Can a shadow priest with the Glyph of Dispersion can Soak entirely First crystal and be ready to entirely soak third?
2. What other classes can entirely soak the crystals?
3. When do tanks need to taunt of each other?


1. Yes, if glyphed they CAN soak the 1st and 3rd crystal (its off CD, if not glyphed it wont be off CD til the 4th). This is not very practical w/o a CD to get them to 19 stacks. I disperse the first one at 19 and take the entire thing, then disperse at 13 on the 3rd and take it to 18 and switch with someone. I am just off the torment debuff to take the 3rd crystal btw.

2. The only other class we've tried successfully to soak crystal was a DK with AMS/IF/Pain suppression/Barrier... and it was still tough. Only did this when I was forced to heal.

3. Absolutely no reason to 2 tank this fight if you disperse the first crystal, we have 2 healers close to 100 stacks by the time its done, that makes handling the dec blades no issue with 1 tank. In theory, the 2nd tank would tank off only for decimation blade (he also takes the first few hits to get enough HP to not get 1 shot)

Kerchunk
08-29-2011, 01:06 PM
Absolutely no reason to 2 tank this fight if you disperse the first crystal, we have 2 healers close to 100 stacks by the time its done, that makes handling the dec blades no issue with 1 tank. In theory, the 2nd tank would tank off only for decimation blade (he also takes the first few hits to get enough HP to not get 1 shot)

While I appreciate that this is the case for your raid, there's also absolutely no reason not to 2-tank the fight if that works better for you (assuming you're not out to set some kind of speed record).

For us, the enrage timer is a push-over, and 2-tanking pretty much negates Decimation Blade as a mechanic. As long as our DPS were reliably 19k+, the encounter felt MUCH more controlled/stable after we started 2-tanking.

Your healers may have "no issue" but not sure that will be a common experience. Our healers are quite capable and have carried us as far as Baleroc with very few issues, and we would still often lose a tank to an unlucky Decimation Blade sequence even w/ Dodge cooldowns & 100+ stacks rolling. Once we started 2-tanking, we never had a tank death again.

Trelocke
09-29-2011, 01:39 PM
I have a couple of questions. We're a super small 10-man raiding guild that really doesn't raid more than 2-3 times a month and got to Baleroc for the first time last night. We typically have warrior+druid tanks and druidx2 with a shadow priest that can go disc heals when we want/need a 3rd healer. So far the other druid and I have 2-healed Shannox and Rhyolith while using the priest on Beth to go up top so we're not finding the post-nerf content that difficult. My questions are:

1) Once the Vital Flame wears off and I get my stack of Vital Sparks back, does it trigger the Vital Flame buff again if you keep healing the tank or do I have to build some more stacks before it will trigger again? (I'm not asking if I *should* build more stacks, I'm asking if it is necessary to the mechanic.)

2) If the Vital Flame/Vital Spark buff works the way I think and assuming we're good enough heals, (since the content has been nerfed) do you think it would be plausible to 1-tank 2-heal this fight?

Now that I've read through the mechanic I think I can build my stacks up quite high (80-90) on the very first shard and just never switch (or not switch till towards the end of the fight when the other druid should have a very large stack). With 2 extra dps (they all pull 18-25K reliably) and Timewarp do you think this would be enough to kill the boss before the healing gets to be too much for two healers? After reading this thread through, I believe we can use a shadow priest to take the whole first shard while I build my stacks and then go into a normal 2-person shard rotation. We weren't really having any trouble with the dps rotation but we were finding the constant heal rotation to not be that successful. Part of this I know is us healers not understanding the Spark/Flame mechanic quite right and some of it was making the boss harder by only using one tank. We will likely get our kill by using a standard 2-tank 3-heal rotation but our group likes to try different things I'm wondering if the way I described sounds viable post-nerf.

Quinafoi
09-29-2011, 09:32 PM
1. Provided you have at least one stack of Vital Spark, the Vital Flame buff is triggered and renewed by any direct heal cast on a target that has the Blaze of Glory buff. So to answer your question, no. You can heal the tank whenever you want and it will trigger Vital Flame so long as the other criteria is met.

2. In its current nerfed form, yes. However, the key to single tanking being viable at all is the ability to heal the tank over 90% of their health in the time between the Decimating Strikes (5 seconds post nerf). In the same regard however with the significant nerf to his health this fight is no longer the DPS race it once was. You only require 87,682 DPS in order to beat the berserk timer. It is considerably easier to heal a second tank with significantly smaller health pool between the Decimating Strikes.

I think you may be attempting to over trivialize the encounter for a group that has never done it before. You aren't a group pushing heroic mode so why are you overcompensating for more DPS when additional DPS isn't required. Two healing and/or single tanking is something you may work your way into but not something I'd really expect to see as a starting point.

wartravellar
10-17-2011, 05:03 PM
Does any one know how long each crystal last on 10-man heroic? Just trying to figure out how to manage mana for the first crystal as a holy pally and still get a lot of stacks. Thanks for the help.

rwhitmarsh
10-18-2011, 05:53 AM
I think its still around 25-30 stacks...leaning towards 30

rwhitmarsh
10-18-2011, 05:56 AM
I have a couple of questions. We're a super small 10-man raiding guild that really doesn't raid more than 2-3 times a month and got to Baleroc for the first time last night. We typically have warrior+druid tanks and druidx2 with a shadow priest that can go disc heals when we want/need a 3rd healer. So far the other druid and I have 2-healed Shannox and Rhyolith while using the priest on Beth to go up top so we're not finding the post-nerf content that difficult. My questions are:

1) Once the Vital Flame wears off and I get my stack of Vital Sparks back, does it trigger the Vital Flame buff again if you keep healing the tank or do I have to build some more stacks before it will trigger again? (I'm not asking if I *should* build more stacks, I'm asking if it is necessary to the mechanic.)

2) If the Vital Flame/Vital Spark buff works the way I think and assuming we're good enough heals, (since the content has been nerfed) do you think it would be plausible to 1-tank 2-heal this fight?

Now that I've read through the mechanic I think I can build my stacks up quite high (80-90) on the very first shard and just never switch (or not switch till towards the end of the fight when the other druid should have a very large stack). With 2 extra dps (they all pull 18-25K reliably) and Timewarp do you think this would be enough to kill the boss before the healing gets to be too much for two healers? After reading this thread through, I believe we can use a shadow priest to take the whole first shard while I build my stacks and then go into a normal 2-person shard rotation. We weren't really having any trouble with the dps rotation but we were finding the constant heal rotation to not be that successful. Part of this I know is us healers not understanding the Spark/Flame mechanic quite right and some of it was making the boss harder by only using one tank. We will likely get our kill by using a standard 2-tank 3-heal rotation but our group likes to try different things I'm wondering if the way I described sounds viable post-nerf.

Usually you will only get about 20-30 stacks per shard, esp because the mechanic requires u to spam direct heals. I dont think ull b reaching 90 stacks because ive never seen our healers over 150 on normal or heroic encounters

Quinafoi
10-18-2011, 09:04 AM
Usually you will only get about 20-30 stacks per shard, esp because the mechanic requires u to spam direct heals. I dont think ull b reaching 90 stacks because ive never seen our healers over 150 on normal or heroic encounters

That's interesting considering my personal best 112 stacks on the first shard on the pre-nerfed encounter. The nerfs actually make it easier for a DPS to take torment longer thus increasing the potential ease of gaining stacks from shards (Shadow Priests for example can take a full shard now without even needing something like the Tol Barad trinket). It's quite possible, and actually not terribly difficult, to break 100 stacks on the first shard.