View Full Version : Tanking For Warriors - Bladeward - not as sucky in Cata as WotLK?
06-21-2011, 10:49 AM
Okay - now here's the deal - in WotLK - I know for Warriors bladeward was meh. Not arguing or contesting that - I'm just thinking with the paradigm shift in Cata... Maybe high uptime/low proc is a good thing...
So here's why:
High uptime/low proc means parry takes up a slightly larger chunk of the combat table, pushing block even closer to being capped.
That's it. I'm not looking at bladeward procs as being valuable. Only it's uptime, and only because it takes up more real estate on the combat table.
In a recent bladeward search, I saw a couple of Cata threads repeating the WotLK paradigm - procs=good. And I'm wondering if that's no longer true given reaching block-capped (unhittable) is the goal (even if unobtainable).
Now, those very same threads also painted a very... dreary picture of bladeward. 20% uptime and 2 stacks (which would be less than 2% parry, 20% of the time, for an average of what, <.4% parry?)
I think that may be the final conclusion - that due to it's lackluster proc rate above level 80, it simply isn't up enough and warriors are already into the parry DR enough, that ultimately bladeward is a relic of the past - but given this slightly different way of looking at it - that it's the uptime, not the proc, that's valuable - I thought it would be worth discussing one more time.
06-21-2011, 01:50 PM
I guess the question I have is if it is relevant, as compared to picking up windwalk. Sure, parry is slightly better due to HtL, but windwalk has a much higher uptime (about 30% by some estimates). Is extra parry with some HtL candy, gimped by 66% uptime on bladeward, worth it?
06-21-2011, 02:25 PM
Windwalk > all. I don't think there's any arguement there.
This is more in the context of Bladeward/Mending/Pyrium Weapon Chain.
Bladeward was not all that great for most fights in WotLK. But that was when it's value was measured by procs, not uptime. Does Bladeward's uptime provide enough value that it's a lower tier option Cata?
06-21-2011, 05:21 PM
I thought the reason Bladeward was gimped in WotLK wasn't becuase of proc rate but becuase of the low uptime because even with out avoidance back then we still parried often enough to destroy the uptime on the buff. even with out slower swing tmes and lower avoidance i don't see it making much of a difference, it was worth what? 86parry rating backin in the day?
06-21-2011, 06:02 PM
Uptime on Bladeward wasn't the value, it meant you aren't using the proc (the damage on parry and the actual parry). And you couldn't be sure the parry was because of the proc so it may not have bought you anything but a little extra damage. high uptime didn't actually *do* anything since block was basically a nonfactor and it was pure EH gearing since you couldn't get close to combat table coverage like you can now.
So all that uptime didn't necessarily buy you anything, nor could you be sure when the benefit (added rating) would be used. Would it be when you're at full health (and thus often 'wasted') or when you were getting low? It was pure RNG. Blood Draining, while hardly overwhelming, was at least a smart in heal in that you used it when you were brought below 35k.
In WotLK gearing was, outside of a specific situation, H Anub Adds, was all about guaranteed. You geared Armor + stamina to guarantee as much as possible, your survival. And Bladeward fit very poorly into that design.
I don't know what the uptime was (probably high for Pallies, poor for everyone else like mongoose XD) - or what it worked out to effectively.
But now, in Cata, unused BW procs might would actually seem to have some value - pushing block even closer to 102.4, leaving even less chance for a full unmitigated hit. That would seem to have some value if you're looking for cheap (if you can afford it, windwalk wins hands down - not even going to pretend to argue that one).
At this point it's probably a non issue because Windwalk, if you're a serious tank, is obtainable (takes maybe 5 days of TB dailies to get the mats in the AH, probably less in 4.2 as even more gear gets sharded and there's now a lower tier to plow through) - so maybe it's a discussion that came too late - but I am wondering if Bladeward ended up getting a bad rap in Cata?
In the end, I don't think so, I think that even the fluky healing of mending would end up being great than the decrease in uncovered combat table ranges with the nerfed bladeward procs above level 85 (effectively, just not enough stacks and not often enough to make it valuable). But in a way it still strikes me as an interesting question.
06-21-2011, 06:55 PM
Yes but if it was worth ~86parry rating backin in the day, it's probably still worth ~86parry rating now. and ~86parry rating was worth more back then than it is now.
06-21-2011, 10:11 PM
Each proc was 200 rating, stackable to 5 times. So theoretically it could hit 1k rating, but unlikely. The 86 rating is probably from someone running tests and then averaging it out proc amount * uptime to get the average.
06-22-2011, 02:15 AM
It was the most generous averaged rating overtime with some maths behindit i could find in a half arsed google search. Windwalk isn't that expensive anymore, get it or reroll DPS.