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View Full Version : Tanking Heroic Chimaeron Parry Gibs?! Wtf?!



leviticusx82
06-14-2011, 04:32 PM
Hey guys. So my guild has grinded on Heroic Chimaeron for 3-4 days now and we've only pushed him into phase 2 once. We've had no real issues with Heroic Atramedes or Halfus but Chim is being a jerk. We usually get him in range of pushing him into phase 2 by the 3rd-4th stack (depending on bile-o-tron) but then the tank (our pally) who's tanking Chim during feud will just get murdered. We've tried cycling all available CDs in different ways, heck, the pally is even unhittable through some careful speccing, reforging, gemming, but he still dies like a pansy! We've read the strats and watched the videos but nowhere have we come across our unique problem...Chim is parry gibbing our tank?! Wtf?!

I was positive Blizz removed that from the game but every fight when we all check recount for when the tank dies he'll get attacked 2-3 times in less than a second or two and always after a parry, and it's definitely not the double strike or the fact that his break stacks are too high (he never gets above 2), or getting hit by spit. Has anyone else come across this issue and if so how do you deal with it? He'll go from full to dead in less than a single gcd almost EVERY stinking time, even with guardian spirit, etc! Also, what do you guys find works best for the tank who tanks Chim during feud in regards to CDs, heal attention, etc by the 3rd-4th stack? Our dps avg is 18-22k, our healers are doing great, i'm the double strike tank and I never die, our only problem lies in keeping Mr. Squishadin alive. Any thoughts?


Notes on comp (here is our typical core 10, but sometimes we have to fill in if people can't raid):

Tanks - Paladin, Warrior, Frost DK in Blood Spec (tanks while bile-o-tron online)
Heals - Druid, Holy Priest, Disc Priest
DPS - Fury Warrior, Arcane/Fire Mage, 2 Hunters (not sure on specs)

Fetzie
06-14-2011, 04:34 PM
Have you got a combatlog to prove this, because blizzard have confirmed that parry-haste as a boss mechanic is no longer in the game.

leviticusx82
06-14-2011, 04:38 PM
I'll check and see if anyone saved it and if not will try to set up a World of Logs. We're not 100% certain he's actually being parry gibbed but when we look at recount and the combat log he'll get hit multiple times in less than a single gcd and we have no idea what it is our how to counter it. It's ALWAYS the 3rd or 4th feud too.

Loganisis
06-14-2011, 04:39 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88826

Bovinity
06-14-2011, 04:40 PM
Chimeron's normal attack speed with a speed debuff on is something like 4-5 seconds as far as I know. With his speed, I'm pretty sure that even a parry-haste wouldn't allow him to hit that fast in succession. Double Attack is pretty much the only mechanic on the fight that does that, there's pretty much no other reasonable explanation.

Fetzie
06-14-2011, 04:40 PM
Believe me, he isn't being parry-gibbed because this is not possible due to the mechanic not being used by enemy non-player-characters. And the feud tank should never (ever) have 4 stacks of break (a melee swing on a player with 4 stacks of break will one-shot regardless of cooldowns if the robot is not active).

Parry haste allowed for up to 40% lower swing time. Chimaeron's swing time when debuffed is 5 seconds (give or take a tenth). so a parry hasted swing would land 2 seconds early (or about 3 seconds after the previous swing)

leviticusx82
06-14-2011, 04:42 PM
Right, he double attacks, but that's not what kills the Paladin. In the same logs/recount where he dies i'll check mine and i'm eating the double attack still. Also, no tank ever gets above 2 stacks. If we're in danger of that happening we swap. That's why we're so confused.

Loganisis
06-14-2011, 04:43 PM
It's 99.99999999% not parry gibbing. Combatlogs will help.

Bovinity
06-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Then at some point in the fight the taunt for the Double Attacks or something similar is going wrong.

It's not like it's some other boss doing it where it'd be reasonable to think a bug was happening, Chimeron has a specific mechanic for this. If it's hitting the wrong guy, then it's a mistake somewhere in the execution.

leviticusx82
06-14-2011, 04:45 PM
Haha ok, it's good to hear that from other people. I was sure Blizz removed parry gibbing but we couldn't think of any other reason. I'll try and grab a log next time we do chim.

Fetzie
06-14-2011, 04:48 PM
It sounds like your tanks need to learn when they need to taunt, and who is taking which feud phase. The only time a tank should have more than 2 stacks of break is when tanking the normal swings with the robot alive (which means the tank can't die anyway). If a tank has any stacks of break going into feud, you are doing it wrong.

leviticusx82
06-14-2011, 04:53 PM
Ok, as far as I understand you need 2 tanks and a plate dps tanking for the fight. Our DK is Frost and tanks in blood spec while bile-o-tron is online. I'm the warrior tank that takes the double strikes. When DBM announces he's double striking I usually count to about 3 in my head then taunt and unload on Chim until DK taunts him back. When we hit feud the pally stands outside the group, taunts, and holds aggro for feud while I continue taking the double strikes. If the bile-o-tron goes off twice in a row the paladin and I swap roles because his break stacks will not have worn out yet. We don't let any tank go above 2 stacks (except maybe the DK but I don't pay attention to him :P ). Is this correct or are we doing something wrong?

swelt
06-14-2011, 04:55 PM
It's ALWAYS the 3rd or 4th feud too.
Paladin on the 3rd or 4th feud? Sounds like an issue with cooldown rotation. I'm betting your warrior tank is ok (because shield wall is a 2min cd) but any other tanking class will probably need external cooldown coverage for the 2nd time they are going thru feud as their major CD won't be up and minor CDs alone are probably not enough. When your paladin is tanking his second feud, wait a few seconds after it begins and then dump pain sup on him (timed so that pain sup lasts until the massacre).

Fetzie
06-14-2011, 04:57 PM
We have our dps DK go blood presence and take the melee swings.
I (prot paladin) taunt for double strikes
when Chimaeron casts feud I taunt him and after 6 seconds hit Guardian (50% cooldown) which lasts for the duration of the robot downtime.
after the massacre the DK taunts the boss back and takes the break stacks
our warrior taunts for double strikes and tanks the next feud phase.

rinse and repeat until 20%. Lay on Hands tops the feud tank off.

leviticusx82
06-14-2011, 05:02 PM
Ooh, interesting. So you cycle your tanks for each feud. We'll have to try that. Thanks for the idea! One question though, after the first and second feuds does the tank taking the double strikes ever have stacks of break on him still or are they always worn out by then?

Fetzie
06-14-2011, 05:03 PM
the tank taking double strike in the regular phase of the fight never has any stacks of Break. Double strike with break and no major cooldown kills you.

klausi
06-14-2011, 05:09 PM
Also, what do you guys find works best for the tank who tanks Chim during feud in regards to CDs, heal attention, etc by the 3rd-4th stack?)
Looks to me like the real problem is a wrong tanking strategy rather then some strange parry gibs.

DK starts "tanking" him while the bot is online, his stacks doesn't matter at all
double attack 1 - warrior takes it with a shield block
double attack 2 - either warrior takes it or paladin (because the paladin should still be topped at this time and your healers can assist on dps'ing here)
*massacre cast*
double attack 3 - warrior takes it with a shield block
double attack 4 -> removed via another *massacre cast*

Feud is going to happen anytime after this in the same pattern as DA 3 + DA 4, but there'll always be at least 60s between two feud casts!

Warrior tanks first feud (his shield wall has a shorter cooldown and will be ready for the next feud phase he has to take and if you happen to be fast enough you can use ardent defender for the execute phase) and the third feud while your paladin tanks second feud and the fourth.

Cooldown wise you can use loh/bop/guardian angel/last stand/bubble to survive the initial hit without to much hassle and pop a "real" cooldown (shieldwall esque) for more important hits (after the first break stack and while your healer stabilise the raid from the incoming slimes).

0.0 masscare + cast feud
5.0 feud fades + normal attack
*4 piece? pop shieldwall here*
9.8 normal attack
10.0 afflicted by break (1)
*no 4 piece? count to three and use it right before the DA*
14.6 double attack
19.4 normal attack
24.2 normal attack
25.0 afflicted by break (2)
30 massacre

Under no circumstance any of your "real" tanks should tank anything outside of the feud phase + taunt for the DA, your DK should take all the regular break stacks so your other tanks can reset them in time.

Also: unless you need the third tank due to running out of external cooldowns (or survival issues in phase 2) i'd have your frost dk playing in blood presence rather than blood specc. If you want to stick to a three tanking strategy, you can totally rotate the tanks. Tank A eating all break stacks while tank B eats DA + tanking first feud and tanking him afterwards (soaking breaks). Tank C takes tank B's job of eating DA + tanking the next feud and continue tanking afterwards, while Tank A starts eating the DA... etc

leviticusx82
06-14-2011, 05:23 PM
Thanks for laying out the feud sequence Klausi and for the suggestions. It definitely makes things more clear. One question, are you suggesting that the tank who's tanking Chim during feud also take the double attacks?

klausi
06-14-2011, 05:29 PM
You can swap tanks after the application of break of just having your offtank taunt the DA but that means you'll have to top two raidmember while your raid gets smashed from slimes. We prefer having both not-actually-tanking-tanks stacking with the raid to even out the damage of the slimes and reducing the healthpoints required for both the initial hit and the final hit before the massacre cast.

Tengenstein
06-14-2011, 09:57 PM
IIRC Parry-hasting was only a 40% increase in melee atk speed until the next attack, and Chimmy, has a 5 second swing speed. So even if he was bugged and flagged for parry-haste we would get a melee stikes at 3 or 5 swing speeds.

leethaxor
06-14-2011, 11:12 PM
My guild has a similar problem, Chim's melee swing would (out side of double attacks) be like .2 or .1 seconds. On ticketing a GM he reviewed our combat logs, and saw we were batshit and that chim was bugging. A few minutes later he just worked.. IDK

This was the day that 4.1 came out and All of BWD was bugged to hell.

PimpJuice4
06-16-2011, 03:38 PM
This was the day that 4.1 came out and All of BWD was bugged to hell.

ya i remember when magmaw was bugged and you could target him from anywhere in his room(funny how they fixed that problem.but dreamwalker in ICC has the same problem now)

Pruke
06-17-2011, 06:16 AM
Just to clear something up, are you saying the tank that is tanking during the feuds should not stand with the raid?

feralminded
06-17-2011, 06:45 AM
Just to clear something up, are you saying the tank that is tanking during the feuds should not stand with the raid?

He *can* do this but you're already pushing it with damage taken. Having them separate will prevent the tank from taking the spit damage which is advisable considering healing the tank is tough enough. It's kind of a wash with all the AoE healing but still we choose not to push it and leave him out of spit range.

Fetzie
06-17-2011, 07:18 AM
I'm fairly sure that I do not take damage or get the debuff when I am in the group during the feud I am not tanking and the spit lands on the raid if I have Break.

leviticusx82
06-21-2011, 05:04 AM
Alright, after some more work on Chim it looks like whatever happened with what we thought might be a parry gib was either a fluke or more likely our misinterpreting of a DA. We've switched to using the strat where 1 tank takes DA before and during first feud then tank swapping after each feud and I must say, I love it. Thanks for the idea! Getting to phase 2 is no problem now.

Now our problem is just living long enough through phase 2. DPS isn't so much the issue seeing as our 4 dpsers are pushing 18-20k, it's just staying alive long enough to do said dps. We usually wipe between 3-9% and can't seem to push Chim past that. What have you guys found works best for keeping everyone alive as long as possible in phase 2? Any cool tricks or strats?

klausi
06-21-2011, 05:41 AM
Best "trick": bring a disc priest. Your raid just can't die to that dot-tick with shields rolling on everyone.

Besides that do you push him into phase 2 with your group at full health?

feralminded
06-21-2011, 06:06 AM
There's a big list of tricks.

#1. Disco priest ... its like cheating.
#2. Push him over during a massacre or feud. Have all DPS cut at ~23% and then wait for the massacre. When it happens group up early and heal the hell out of everyone and push dps hard.
#3. Save bloodlust for p2.
#4. Try and have a rogue at the top of the threat meter after your tanks ... evasion tanking is awesome.
#5. Try and have a shaman dpser ahead of the healers so they can die and pop.
#6. Any other dps that can shed aggro should (mages/locks/hunters).
#7. Have your tanks (warrior and druids) save their last-stand-like CDs for p2 ... when they get dropped to under 10k they can last stand back over 10k.
#8. Why do you only have 4 dps? This is a 2 tank, 3 healer fight.

Loganisis
06-21-2011, 10:57 AM
There's a big list of tricks.

#1. Disco priest ... its like cheating.
#2. Push him over during a massacre or feud. Have all DPS cut at ~23% and then wait for the massacre. When it happens group up early and heal the hell out of everyone and push dps hard.
#3. Save bloodlust for p2.
#4. Try and have a rogue at the top of the threat meter after your tanks ... evasion tanking is awesome.
#5. Try and have a shaman dpser ahead of the healers so they can die and pop.
#6. Any other dps that can shed aggro should (mages/locks/hunters).
#7. Have your tanks (warrior and druids) save their last-stand-like CDs for p2 ... when they get dropped to under 10k they can last stand back over 10k.
#8. Why do you only have 4 dps? This is a 2 tank, 3 healer fight.

#2 is key - granted, I run 25m, which is different, but not waiting until a fued when everyone is healed up to 100% and taking him to the mortality phase then is just suicide.

A few other tricks...

* Just before mortality, if you have any hybrid healers (druids/pallys) have them taunt and have the tanks taunt back - that makes your most expendable members (healers) in P2 the next targets after the tanks.

* Spread out - make him run around to gobble up people. Don't stay stacked up after the fued.

* Any hybrid DPS with a tank set - when they pull threat, have them switch stances and pop CDs (though rogue evasion tanking > that).

* DPS should stop using CDs at 50% to make sure they are up for P2, and use DPS pots with hero right at the beginning of mortality to maximize output in short amount of time.

Bovinity
06-21-2011, 11:08 AM
* Spread out - make him run around to gobble up people. Don't stay stacked up after the fued.

This is just a waste of DPS. His swing timer is so long and his hit box so big that even if people are in opposite corners and he goes chasing them, you probably didn't really gain any significant time from it. Just stack up and burn him down.

Loganisis
06-21-2011, 11:32 AM
This is just a waste of DPS. His swing timer is so long and his hit box so big that even if people are in opposite corners and he goes chasing them, you probably didn't really gain any significant time from it. Just stack up and burn him down.

For melee - maybe - but for a mage than can blink, hunters than can deterence, locks that can teleport - as you said, his hit box is huge, so it's not like melee would have much of a problem keeping up - but range can move him a fair bit with no noticable DPS loss.

I probably should have been clear - that melee spreading out is bad - but range that can spread out can buy those last few seconds for kills before it's on farm.

justinlee
06-24-2011, 02:37 AM
blizzard have confirmed that parry-haste as a boss mechanic is no longer in the game.
that's right , but sometimes boss usually kidding us, have u ever hit by Caustic Slime twice with no one near u in 6yds?

Bovinity
06-24-2011, 05:51 AM
that's right , but sometimes boss usually kidding us, have u ever hit by Caustic Slime twice with no one near u in 6yds?


Nope!

Fetzie
06-24-2011, 05:54 AM
that's right , but sometimes boss usually kidding us, have u ever hit by Caustic Slime twice with no one near u in 6yds?

As a tank I do not think I have ever been hit by caustic slime outside of collapsing for feud.

On my rogue and hunter I cannot remember being hit more than once at a time by caustic slime.

sifuedition
06-24-2011, 06:14 AM
Yesterday on reg, we took a caustic slime with just a few seconds left on feud that killed about three people and then an immediate cast of the aoe (can't remeber the name of it off-hand) that killed about three more. Are we supposed to spread just before the end of feud to avoid the splash from that slime or stay stacked until after the aoe?

klausi
06-24-2011, 07:23 AM
It's the same pattern as outside of feud:

0,0 Massacre
15,0 Caustic Slime 1+2
20,0 Caustic Slime 3+4
25,0 Caustic Slime 5+6
30,0 Massacre

You got about 15 seconds to stabilise your raid for the first wave of caustics, with 9 players clumped up you need about 50k hitpoints for every wave (each slime hits for 25k pre resist, incoming every 5 seconds, three times) and you need to be above 10k hitpoints for the massacre afterwards.

If people die to caustics they either didn't pull a defensive cooldown on their own, there was no raid cooldown or your healers srewed up. You actually WANT the splash damage to be on your whole raid during a feud phase. That's when the robot is offline and it's way easier to heal the whole raid with groupheals rather then smaller groups (individuals did die tot the slime). After the third wave of caustics you could spread out again but i'd recommend standing together for some more seconds (5ish). This way your healers can more easily bring you above 10k hitpoints after the massacre cast for the next wave of caustics 15s later.

sifuedition
06-24-2011, 01:22 PM
Tyvm