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View Full Version : Tanking Telling threat levels form a WoL parse?



BryceE
06-12-2011, 09:05 PM
I was having a horrible time with threat tonight for some reason adn I don't know if it was just the dps not waiting long enough, getting to many crits in a row or if it was just me. I have never really had this much of a problem on pulls.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/

I already pop wings+dp for a SHotR, then CS, J, AS, CS whenever its off CD and AS when it procs. Keeping my Judgement on the target. HW whenever all those are on CD. I already have my hand of salvation for the fury warrior, but the fire mage gets like 8 crits in a row and just owns everything and yea, it's bad. The only dps who seems to not pull aggro, but still push out 20k++ dps is the hunter, which mainly is b/c of MD, but that only lasts a certain time.

And it takes at least 15 seconds for my vengeance to get stacked up enough where I'm sitting ok on threat, could that be because I get dodge/parry streaks and all that?

I wonder if it's time to start focusing on hit/exp now or at least hit.

Lumines
06-13-2011, 01:36 AM
Exp would be more threat per point than hit anyway, but that's not your problem. Sections like this from attempt 5 are your problem:



[20:18:34.553] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Hand of Reckoning (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/62124/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:34.741] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Crusader Strike (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/35395/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:37.899] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Crusader Strike (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/35395/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:41.097] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Crusader Strike (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/35395/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:44.233] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Crusader Strike (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/35395/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:45.731] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Judgement (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/20271/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:47.424] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Crusader Strike (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/35395/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:48.291] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Rebuke (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/96231/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:50.755] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Crusader Strike (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/35395/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)
[20:18:55.926] http://worldoflogs.com/media/images/icons/transparant.png Galook (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/8/?s=3425&e=3845) casts Crusader Strike (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/spell/35395/?s=3425&e=3845) on Cho'gall (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/details/29/?s=3425&e=3845)


That's an awful lot of GCDs left unutilised.

There are attempts where you have 6 ShotRs in 6 minutes. Or 3 times in 7 minutes. That's really, really, really low. My last Cho'gall kill, for comparison, had 17 ShotRs in 6 minutes.

Eddytheone
06-13-2011, 02:18 AM
If you are only pulling 5-6k as a protection paladin I hate to say it but you are doing it wrong :s

jere
06-13-2011, 04:57 AM
Start with making a couple of changes to your rotation. Here is a general priority:

1. Always use ShoR when you have 3 Holy Power UNLESS you need to cast WoG for whatever reason (but in general, use ShoR at 3 HP each time).

2. Hit CS on cooldown.

3. Hit AS if it is available or Judgement if not

4. If you have enough mana, you can cast Holy Wrath or Consecration, but they generally aren't needed.

That isn't the 100% most optimal threat rotation, but is about 95% of it and easy to do. Start with that. Once you have that down, you can practice some other tricks to improve it, but that should put you at 95% of the output you can produce.

When you are done it will look something like this:

CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
ShoR
CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
ShoR
CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
ShoR
CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
AS > J > HW/C
CS
ShoR

Mind you, because of Grand Crusader procs, it won't look exactly like that (you will most likely get a ShoR much sooner than 3 CS's), but I wanted to illustrate the pattern that the priority is based on.

Also, if you end up having mana problems, despite skipping HW/C then you can do:

J > AS > HW/C instead of AS > C > HW/C, which will be a boost in mana and only a very slight dps decrease.

BryceE
06-13-2011, 08:04 AM
I guess I was skipping ShotR for WoG since we were only 2 healing it. I'll try using more SHotR again tonight and try and not skip as many GCDs and see how it is.

Quinafoi
06-13-2011, 08:26 AM
try and not skip as many GCDs and see how it is.

That is quite important. Keep in mind, your DPS is pushing buttons as fast as they can. If you want to hold threat, you best be doing so as well.

Tengenstein
06-13-2011, 08:45 AM
Just to comment on the DPS side of things, if the DPS are busting out on the pull with all things agogo and not giving a strawberry croissant for their threat or yours, the problem is as much theirs if they pulll aggro as it is yours, the reason Hunter's don't (or rather shouldn't) pull aggro is that Threat from MD doesn't go back to the hunter after MD expires, it's destoyed. For 4 seconds every 30 seconds, or 13% of the time s hunter can effectively not produce any threat while DPSing His threat ceiling is 13% higher than anyone elses.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/nazgrel/galook/advanced
That's you right? you might find glyphing either HotR or CS rather than Judgement a threat gain. As threats an issue you shouldn't be skipping any GCDs (even if it wasn't an issue you still shouldn't skip GCDs).

BryceE
06-13-2011, 08:48 AM
I think it was because I had JUST ran the same boss for 18 hours straight over the weekend trying to kill him and I was just not really there last night..

Fetzie
06-13-2011, 08:52 AM
I think it was because I had JUST ran the same boss for 18 hours straight over the weekend trying to kill him and I was just not really there last night..

yeah...spending 18 hours in a week on a single boss is often counter-productive

Quinafoi
06-13-2011, 08:54 AM
You can actually "unextend" a lockout provided you didn't resave yourself to it by killing anything. So you can push progression one day and then reset it the next. You aren't locked into the decision of extending until you actually kill something. I've done that before, extended the first day to push progression, then removed the extension and did farm content the next day.

Tengenstein
06-13-2011, 09:03 AM
I'll give your guild props for persistance, however its sounds like your Raid or raid leader either can't identify what going wrong with the encounter, or can't fix what's going wrong with an encounter and is carrying on regardless. There nothing wrong with calling it early to analyze the logs of a encounter rather bang your head against a wall

Fetzie
06-13-2011, 09:18 AM
To check for common stuff going wrong...

Go to the Expression Editor for a specific attempt. i.e. this (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vcy3b1k8krfiab8t/xe/) and select an attempt.

enter the respective line into the box.

-- people getting hit by the shadow crash
spell = 'Corrupting Crash'-- depravity not being interrupted
spell = 'Depravity' -- add not being killed quick enough
spell = 'Festering Blood'-- being hit by the slimes
sourcename = 'Blood of the Old God'-- people standing in the black puddle that they should never be standing in
spell = 'Spilled Blood of the Old God' and amount > 1-- people standing in fire
spell = 'Blaze'-- stacks of the buff Cho'gall gets when worship is not interrupted fast enough
spell = 'Twisted Devotion'
spell = 'Corrupted Blood' and amount > 60 -- the people who are failing at not standing in stuff that they shouldn't be anywhere near
spell = 'Corrupted Blood' and amount > 60