View Full Version : Healing Bear Druid, Hit/Expertise/Dodge

06-01-2011, 06:43 AM
Hi, I read in many bear guides that you should not reforge away from hit/expertise unless you are over the cap/exp softcap. But after looking at some of the top raiders on my server, I notice that they have 9-13 expertise and 2-5% hit, but they also have 34%+ dodge. I have 23 expertise and 7.48% hit atm, but running 31% dodge.

My question is this, isn't hit and expertise more important for a bear due to the mastery bonus. The more hit/expertise rating we have, the more chances of hitting-critting-savage defense. Or is avoidance more important than mitigation? Dodge > Hit/exp?

Here is my character: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/garona/kalc/simple


06-01-2011, 07:10 AM
I read in many bear guides

Which guides?

My question is this, isn't hit and expertise more important for a bear due to the mastery bonus.

Melee attacks use a single roll system. Until such time as your crit is equal to 100% of your normal hit rate (such that every swing is a crit), increasing your hit does not increase your crit. As Savage Defense requires you to crit, not just hit the target, hit and expertise will not affect it until crit is significantly high. Not to say that hit and expertise are completely worthless, however they do not affect your mastery benefit.

This is a difference between melee and spell attacks. Spells use a double roll system. Meaning you first roll to determine whether or not it hit, then reroll to determine if you crit. So 40% crit and 95% chance to hit results in 38% critical strikes for casters (hit effects crit chance). 40% crit and 95% chance to hit results in 40% critical strikes for melee (hit doesn't effect crit directly, but does effect the upper bound on crit). These numbers are also assuming an equal level target that is not a player.

06-01-2011, 08:14 AM
expertise is about equal to crit at most 359 gear levels and becoming even with crit once you start getting into 372 gear. i have no issues with threat after the first couple seconds of a pull with only ~4% hit, 3 expertise, and around 35% dodge. i still get roughly a 50% uptime on savage defense on most fights.

the more you dodge that's an attack that didn't eat a sd proc so the next one that you don't dodge will have an absorb for it. yeh your sd uptime might be a tad lower with less expertise and hit but you are avoiding more damage by dodging more and saving those sd procs for attacks you aren't dodging instead of relying on sd procs alone to avoid damage.

06-01-2011, 09:21 AM
Thank you for your quick replies. This makes a lot of sense. I didn't consider that as a bear, i'm always using special attacks and therefore hit/expertise rating would matter a lot less. The two guides that I can remember are from mmo-champion and elitistjerks that give precedence to hit/exp and puts them low on the reforge priority and says not to reforge unless over cap.

Thanks for the help.

06-01-2011, 09:52 AM
i seriously would not trust anything to do with tanking on mmo-champion or elitistjerks. mmo-champion isn't know for their therycraft and knowledge and elitistjerks hasn't had any useful/correct info on any tanking classes in forever.

for bears i use http://theincbear.com/ and i bug darksend alot since he is the best bear on this site that i know of. he needs to get around to updating his bear guide for cataclysm imo *hint hint darksend if you read this*

06-01-2011, 10:13 AM
EJ is sadly lacking in the bear department in particular. I think it's just not as well participated in as their other discussions.

As for MMO-Champion I believe you misinterpreted their guide...

For reforging, the only course of action is reforging the least wanted stat into Dodge Rating. This is the best support for survivability, while simultaneously keeping our avoidance above the plate tanks. The Reforge priority is as follows, from least wanted to most wanted:

Hit / Expertise (if beyond soft cap)
Crit >= Expertise (if below soft cap)
Mastery (Only reforge away from Mastery if it is the only secondary available.)

That's a list of your lowest priority stats. Meaning those are the order in which you get rid of them in favor of dodge. Basically the only time you don't reforge hit or expertise according to this is if the item has haste which is even worse (at least according to the author).

06-02-2011, 12:43 AM
EJ's problem is their terrible attitude towards people that disagree with them. So most of the "current-state" theorycrafters just don't bother trying to talk to them.

MMO-Champion's guide was actually reviewed by myself and Tangedyn prior to posting, so it's pretty decent. However it won't be kept up-to-date.

http://www.theincbear.com/ is probably the best resource available currently.

06-13-2011, 10:18 AM
Well their name has Jerks in it, but I do agree. They're alright for their enh shaman thread and a few others, but when it comes to my bear tank I use http://theincbear.com/ as well.