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Helgebroed
05-26-2011, 02:01 PM
hello, me and my raidleader were having a discusion about how the gems are with the new patch:
http://www.noxxic.com/warrior/protection/gemming.php

is this correct? Do we need to get the stamina gems again? and to gain threat should be gem expertise /hit??

please help me out here

Loganisis
05-26-2011, 02:06 PM
No. It's wrong. And correct gemming is in a million posts. There are differences between gemming for heroics/normal raids and hardmodes, but the gemming philosophy has been basically the same.

Normal = mastery-centric. Hardmode = stamina centric. In both you gem for tank bonuses.

Helgebroed
05-26-2011, 02:09 PM
Then this is ok from me? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/helgebroed/simple

Loganisis
05-26-2011, 02:43 PM
Actually, it looks like you're going Nef/Hardmodes? In that case you're going to look more at stamina centric gearing.

Blue = 60 stam or 20 mastery/30 stam
Red = 20 parry/30 stam
Yellow = 20 mastery/30 stam

Meta should be the eternal.

Nef and hardmodes have more magic damage so a small reduction in dodge/block/parry for an increase in HP.

You shouldn't need to gem threat. Are you pushing enrage timers? If so it's probably more DPS needs to improve since you should have access to the gear by now that if you're pushing enrage timers DPS improve > threat increase in the first 30 seconds.

Tengenstein
05-27-2011, 03:21 AM
That site is not a very good source of prot warrior information. There's a lot of misinformation, and some quite horrific omissions, such as Heroic strike.

How can you omit Heroic strike?!

klausi
05-27-2011, 03:33 AM
Actually, it looks like you're going Nef/Hardmodes? In that case you're going to look more at stamina centric gearing.
With the increase of his itemlevel his hitpoints will jump drastically, gemming for stamina should only be an option until he's decked in half heroic gear. There are not many hard hitting bosses he'll have to worry about at the start of raiding heroic mode, on Magmaw i'd swap tanking jobs after every mangle to reduce the chance of two unblocked 100k-ish hits and for chimaeron he got shieldblock for every double attack.

Ps: up your professions, that's a gain of ~ 200 free stamina there.

Helgebroed
05-28-2011, 04:10 AM
I am working on my professions :-D
and I am raiding in the normal modes, no attempts on nef yet. I don't really have an agro prob on the bosses, it's more on for example the ads from Maloriak ( Aoe in general....)
Should I still use the gems you just told me Loganisis?

truculent
05-28-2011, 11:42 AM
I was in the mood to offer a long winded explination for the good of the tankspot cause, but then I relaized logan and ten covered it all in a few sentences.

Loganisis
05-28-2011, 01:03 PM
I am working on my professions :-D
and I am raiding in the normal modes, no attempts on nef yet. I don't really have an agro prob on the bosses, it's more on for example the ads from Maloriak ( Aoe in general....)
Should I still use the gems you just told me Loganisis?

If you're not going hard modes, then no, stay mastery-centric.

When you say the adds on Maloriak - you're talking about the abberations, not the primes, right? When they come down, TC the ones that come down you area, taunt the one / Heroic Leap the two+ that come down on the other side (or if you have a hunter, have them MD to you). Get rend on one as quick as possible and then use TC again to spread rend around. Use Shockwave liberally unless green phase is less than 20 seconds from beginning, tab target around and SS any that appear low, and go.

Primes don't have an aggro table, they fixate, so you need to taunt them quick to get them to fixate on you, at which point they become 'locked'. Unless you move too close to other raid members, then they might fixate on them, so you need to tank them away from other people (and not ahve them blown back into you by the frost bombs).

You should have any problems with abberations threat - simply because the first 6 should have enough rend ticks on them that they aren't going anywhere and the last three should die so quickly from your raid being smart and AoEing them down immediately that it's not an issue.

Maybe if you give us a walk through of the specific AoE sitautions you're having problems with we can offer more targeted imput?

Loganisis
05-28-2011, 01:06 PM
With the increase of his itemlevel his hitpoints will jump drastically, gemming for stamina should only be an option until he's decked in half heroic gear. There are not many hard hitting bosses he'll have to worry about at the start of raiding heroic mode, on Magmaw i'd swap tanking jobs after every mangle to reduce the chance of two unblocked 100k-ish hits and for chimaeron he got shieldblock for every double attack.

True - it's a matter of getting enough... Though we've seen Chi hit randomly for 100k in a non-fued moment and the Chi tanks are good at taunting off... I've only add-tanked hardmodes - so my 2 are only for hard mode add tanking - but at ~358 tank gear - I'm not comfortable with my HP pool yet... but want to not buy more gear so I can stay DPS XD

klausi
05-28-2011, 02:43 PM
Outside of feud (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88872) (why is everyone sticking to Papa Paints typo? xD) he should only hit your regular two tanks with his double attacks, the soaker (assuming it's a dps) will eat 150k-ish hits before any break stacks.

Those double attacks hit for up to 150k each (it's a huge damage range, low end is only about 100k) with no inspiration on an ilvl 359 geared warrior/paladin so you need about 170k buffed to be on the safe side.. and that's totally achieveable with either mastery gemming route, one stamina trinket + flask or stamina gemming + flask + double avoidance trinkets. And warriors need even less hitpoints because shieldblock is ready for every DA that's going to hurt.

Helgebroed
05-29-2011, 04:06 AM
ah ok, i'll stick to the gems that I already have then. Well my aoe threat loss happens on every trash in a raid and in a heroic dungeon I don't really get them 100 % with me. I know that it isn't the encounter that flips me up, but it's me.
I don't know if there are any spec or gear (gemm/reforge) suggestions that can help me with aoe threat?

klausi
05-29-2011, 04:42 AM
Blood&Thunder rend spread is awesome because there's no aoe damage cap on rolling dots. Thunderstruck'd shockwaves can help you as well and don't forget about inner rage + cleave spam.

Helgebroed
05-30-2011, 12:15 AM
well, the tree I have now is something I found and it said that it is great for aoe tanking. I used to have both B&T and Thunderstruck but even then I wasn't able to hold agro.... Now I only have B&T