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raiders420
05-18-2011, 02:57 PM
I know the hit/expertise cap theory has been discussed at length, but I wanted to know what the community thought about loosing 3% of total dodge+parry+block in order to be expertise capped.

With my pally tank at 348 equipped item level I was at times struggling to hold aggro in normal heroics, I decided to look at my total dps logs using recount and noticed that not only was I missing a lot of attacks, but i was also seeing a lot of dodged or parried attacks. Seeing this prompted me to reforge in such a way that I was able to get expertise capped and only lost about 3% total dodge+parry+block. It seemed to help a lot with my aggro given my current gear.

Any thoughts as to weather this setup is better than having the extra 3% dodge+parry+block?

Tengenstein
05-18-2011, 04:27 PM
It depends on how much you value survival over threat. if you outgear the instance then sure, go expertise. if you tank stuff you don't out gear go max surviability and get DPS that aren't idiots, and hone your rotation.

Loganisis
05-18-2011, 04:50 PM
Personally, I think it's bad unless your raid absolutely needs more DPS and the DPS have actually maxed out their production.

As a tank I want to be the least burden on the healers so if something does happen (for example, on our nef attempt we were getting crackles at the same time as an Ony electrical discharge/tailswipped healers) I'm able to survive it easier.

It's true that the healers should be able to keep you up, but I'm also strongly of the idea that I want to minimize the effort the healer needs to keep me up, making it easier for them to keep the dumb DPS up (or themselves for healers that forget about themselves from time to time XD).

Sure, it may not seem like much, but it's my preferred way.

****

If I was pugging - expertise would be more valuable as you can't trust the DPS to be smart :-/

Tengenstein
05-18-2011, 05:29 PM
All DPs classes have the ability to drop aggro though. Some have active abilities, other's acheive it through Death.

Tengenstein
05-18-2011, 07:22 PM
Tell me about it, I offspec as Arms and reset my aggro all the time. I find Demoshout a productive use of a GCD early on. The Problem with a Hold the Line & Die by the Sword build is that if the boss managed to drop you from >21% to 0 in a single hit or magics you you're kinda dead. and most raid bosses tend to hit a little harder than that. Would be pretty fun on trash though. I don't think it would be much value on Chimmy tho as lhe tend to one shot if you don't avoid the blow. We have epic talent names. Hold the the Line and Die by the Sword. epic spec name.

@ the OP If your losing aggro in the first 10seconds of the pull it becuase either DPS are being thick or just don't care if they get aggro or think your kill orders wrong. Mark a skull, and even a cross, if you lose aggro on the anything but the skull the DPS is at fault. generally kill enemy healers/CCers first followed by casters or those who have tank killer abilities, then deal with the rest of the trash. If however you are losing aggro ona single target some time into the fight its probably you're end that needs working on, unless you're losing it to a warrior as we are quite threaty bastards. if it is on your end its probably to do with your ability use than your hit/expertise.

Beefius
05-18-2011, 10:55 PM
The Problem with a Hold the Line & Die by the Sword build is that if the boss managed to drop you from >21% to 0 in a single hit or magics you you're kinda dead.
Yeah, I realised that some time between posting and your reply, hence why I retracted my post... I misread or misremembered Die by the Sword so I thought the threshold was a bit higher than that, but oh well.

raiders420
05-19-2011, 07:53 AM
For the most part I have no issues with single target threat. Mostly aoe situations where arms warrior, DK, mage, or hunter let loose. Sometimes I do not mark kill order, which could be adding to the problem.

Theotherone
05-19-2011, 02:10 PM
As a Pally, with Seal of Truth glyphed, you'll pretty much hit the expertise soft cap through gear and some Crocklisk food; no reason to gem/enchant/reforge for it.

I did find that I need to be near the soft cap for threat in PuGs.