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View Full Version : Warrior war tank - need more Mitigation?



ksnos
05-16-2011, 12:33 AM
yo guys
atm my core trying to do cho'gall
but cho'gall still hit-me hard alot
may i need more master/dodge/pary?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/gurubashi/meiawar/advanced
354ilvl
*armory status*
HP:142859
sta 7131
armor 35546
dodge 10.37%
parry 14.66%
block 48.84%
(mastery 19.23 2013)

and here combatlog for last try today
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v7ghjzqbjbmkx0e5/details/1/

ty

ksnos
05-16-2011, 12:35 AM
btw
i start getting cho'gall.
add come, i get the add

uglie
05-16-2011, 12:52 AM
You shouldn't be reforging avoidance/mitigation stats to hit in the first place. With a proper "rotation" vengeance will give you more than enough threat once it stacks up, before it stacks MD and tricks will be enough.
Replace that PVP neck with at least the vendor neck, the jp tank check will actually give you more mitigation that the 359 crafted since it has so much mastery on it.
Gemming looks good, but could probably stand to replace some of the 20mastery/30stam gems with pure mastery. Your parry rating should only be about 300 rating higher than your dodge rating, but unreforging those dodge>hit reforges should help that a lot. If they still aren't where they need to be reforge any other threat stats to dodge if no mastery on the item. Like on your shield the hit should be dodge.

ksnos
05-16-2011, 12:59 AM
yea sorry
pvp neck is wrong one :P
now is right one :P
Amulet of Protection

uglie
05-16-2011, 01:09 AM
much better. lol. Just get that reforging corrected and you'll be gtg.

edit: Have you been able to get the TB trinket? the mastery equip and resist on use.

Loganisis
05-16-2011, 01:17 AM
You have 14 expertise and 4.5% hit. That's ~9*120 = 1080 rating in stats that aren't of much value to you, including 5 items you've reforged to hit. That's a big drop in surviability.

Anything you've reforged to hit, reforge to mastery > dodge/parry. (You're parry is ~500 rating above dodge, so that's in good shape)

Try finding gear without hit/exp on it. But if you have to choose, choose expertise over hit. Reforging to hit instead of expertise (as long as expertise is under 26) is wrong since taunts and interrupts don't miss now and expertise removes 1% parry and 1% dodge for the same rating as hit only removes 1% miss.

You have un-reforged hit and exeprtise on gear (ring, shield). This should be reforged into something more useful.

***

Spec - you apparently need threat, since you've reforged into hit, but you don't have deep wounds, the single best optional talent for single-target threat. Drop shield bash and the 1 point in Thunderstruck and put all 3 in Deep Wounds. I doubt you'll notice a difference in threat. On the pull maybe with a slightly higher miss/dodge/parry chance, but that's what MD or Tricks are for, or if you don't have that in your group, then DPS... Just not attacking (heck, we have 2 great tanks in our 25m and even with MD and Tricks we have DPS that can rip off them - DPS MUST be smart - pulling threat in the first 15 seconds is DPS's fault, plain and simple.).

If you're having threat issues part 2) What's your rotation? Rotation is far more important than hit/exp in building your threat lead.

****

Glyph of long charge is pretty meh. I personally prefer Thunderclasp as my major glyph in that spot because it widens the area B+T is applied.

***

To sum it up, you've got over 1000 rating in non-survival stats, roughly 600 of which can problem be moved into dodge or parry for fewer unmitigated attacks when SB isn't up and more crit blocks when SB is up. This will help reduce your damage.

You've reforged into threat stats but are missing the best threat talents.

By going into a more threat-centric talent build (and it isn't much, you're not losing any survival talents) and moving your threat stats into survival stats, you'll take less damage and it will be slightly smoother in nature.

Loganisis
05-16-2011, 01:19 AM
edit: Have you been able to get the TB trinket? the mastery equip and resist on use.

^ Yes!

I avoided talking about specific upgrades, but this one is highly valueable and I'd even go so far as saying as a near must for Nef. 321 delicious mastery + something like 30-50% magic resist once per minute.

Loganisis
05-16-2011, 01:21 AM
Your parry rating should only be about 300 rating higher than your dodge rating

It depends on the level of mastery - the more mastery (block) you have the wider the gap between dodge and parry rating becomes before the increased parry DR cancel out the value gained from the parry by HtL.

Loganisis
05-16-2011, 01:35 AM
and here combatlog for last try today
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v7ghjzqbjbmkx0e5/details/1/


How do you deal with Fury of Cho'Gal? Do you ever have more than one stack of Fury on you at a time? I think you do in some of the pulls. Each fury is 20% increased physical damage taken. It's going to be hard to keep you up if you have 2 or more stacks.

Do you have one of your DKs taunt him as he's casting fester blood to eat every other Fury? Or something like that?

Also - you're not using Demo shout or Thunderclasp enough. Demo shout = attacks hit 10% less hard and TC = 10% fewer physical attacks from the reduced swing timer. Maybe someone else is providing these buffs, but I'd doubt it if your pally is on add duty. Once you get a threat lead, it'd be better to over use these abilities than let them drop off.

Shield block is also only up 20-25% of the time, you can keep this up a little more... I don't remember any big magic damage on the tank to save the SB for.

I also see 21 intercepts but no charges. As a tank you should use CHarge over intercept since it gives rage rather than costs it. Or Heroic leap. But if you're on Cho'gal, why are you using it?

***

Others better at disecting logs probably can correct anything wrong I might have seen in the logs and add more to it.

ksnos
05-16-2011, 05:58 AM
How do you deal with Fury of Cho'Gal? Do you ever have more than one stack of Fury on you at a time? I think you do in some of the pulls. Each fury is 20% increased physical damage taken. It's going to be hard to keep you up if you have 2 or more stacks.
well im start geting cho'gal,change to add, run back and taunt to get next fury
and if i get 2 or more stack the other tank(paly 358)hold cho'gal and get the others fury's



Do you have one of your DKs taunt him as he's casting fester blood to eat every other Fury? Or something like that?
the other tank is a prot paly


Also - you're not using Demo shout or Thunderclasp enough. Demo shout = attacks hit 10% less hard and TC = 10% fewer physical attacks from the reduced swing timer. Maybe someone else is providing these buffs, but I'd doubt it if your pally is on add duty. Once you get a threat lead, it'd be better to over use these abilities than let them drop off.

I'm trying to get used to the buff / debuffs many fights, forget trying to keep the agro-_-
I'll be setting the powa and something that I can adjust to remember that


Shield block is also only up 20-25% of the time, you can keep this up a little more... I don't remember any big magic damage on the tank to save the SB for.
humm. maybe if i use ? can hold it more time up

#showtooltip Shield Slam
/cast Shield Slam
/cast Shield Block



I also see 21 intercepts but no charges. As a tank you should use CHarge over intercept since it gives rage rather than costs it
Curious, I use

#showtooltip
/cast Charge
/cast Intercept

Or Heroic leap. But if you're on Cho'gal, why are you using it?
bring the adds to entrace, sometimes got fire at stairs, or to get more fast to other tank
leap, intervene some randon dps or heal in way /charge taunt boss


***


much better. lol. Just get that reforging corrected and you'll be gtg.
edit: Have you been able to get the TB trinket? the mastery equip and resist on use.
need more rep/tokens

going to change reforgs and gems today
ty alot for help

ksnos
05-16-2011, 06:19 AM
looking at askmrrobot.com
2859
its before reforge

and now reforged
2860

swelt
05-16-2011, 06:38 AM
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v7ghjzqbjbmkx0e5/spell/91331/?enc=wipes&boss=43324

I'm prepared to bet that this has a lot more to do with why you are dying than any amount of reforging.

Break people out of devotion ASAP. Have plans and backup plans for breaking devotion (AOE fears followed by dispells, AOE stuns, single target interrupts/stuns, etc). Use cooldowns when you see him get more than 1 or 2 stacks of devotion.

Loganisis
05-16-2011, 06:54 AM
Okay, I miss-understood how you were setting it up - so some of what I said was completely bunk.


well im start geting cho'gal,change to add, run back and taunt to get next fury and if i get 2 or more stack the other tank(paly 358)hold cho'gal and get the others fury's

The way our guild does it in 10m started the same way. The OT pulls, MT taunts so OT can go get the adds. From this point on, one of the DPS (me, Fury warrior) runs in front, stands next to the tank and taunts during fester blood. I guess if the raid had great DPS the add would be down well before this and you could do it.

Basically what I did is every other Fury I switched to prot stance, threw a shield on, hit SB and taunted, ate the Fury, and then the MT taunted back. This way no one had more than one stack of Fury and by the time I had to do it again, my stack had fallen off. I usually had to eat the first Fury of P3 as well before the add tank (you) could get back, it was a timing thing.

If you have 2 (or more) stacks of Fury, you'll be taking a big increase in damage, your 'squishy' may not be anything more than the effect of multiple stacks of the buff (though you'll be even less squishy with that you've done).

A DK could easily just switch to blood stance, pop a CD and do the job as easy as I have.


I'm trying to get used to the buff / debuffs many fights, forget trying to keep the agro -_- I'll be setting the powa and something that I can adjust to remember that

I was looking at the stacks of Fury you had and assumed (yeah, makes an ass out of me) that you were on Cho'gal. Never mind on this. Your uptime won't be as high because you're on adds.


humm. maybe if i use ? can hold it more time up

#showtooltip Shield Slam
/cast Shield Slam
/cast Shield Block

Again, I thought you were on Cho'Gal. But for this macro, switch the 2 around, shield block first, so you get the benefit of Heavy Repercussions on the SS. Make sure you have SB by itself too, sometimes you'll want to use it when you don't want to hit SS.



Curious, I use

#showtooltip
/cast Charge
/cast Intercept

o_O Why would you have charge and intercept in the same macro? I'd just throw the macro out and use the plain 'ol charge button.

***

Sorry for the confusion, it was late, like 2am and I couldn't sleep when I responded. I missed some things in the log file.

Be ready for less consistent threat on pulls, but this just means DPS will have to go a little slower to start with. The switch from hit and exp to surivval stats will make you easier to heal. Good luck.

Tengenstein
05-16-2011, 06:55 AM
God yes, there is a point in that log where he has 8 stacks. That's just not cool, as a warrior you can shockwave every time this happens, and if people are stacked nicely under Cho'galls awesome martian butt you can prevent him getting any stacks. this only leaves the rest of the raid do do it while you're away tanking the add. your co tank is a paladin, he can use Avengers shield to break it aswell, not quite as great as warrior's shockwave but its way better than haveing a boss hitting the tank for 180% normal damage, and with flames orders normal damage is pretty high.

swelt
05-16-2011, 07:11 AM
I'd slap 'shammydwarf' upside the head and make sure he stands with the rest of the group!

On another note, in 10man I'd recommend you consider positioning off to the left hand side. Cut's down on movement a lot. This vid illustrates quite nicely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG2Row9nKdU

ksnos
05-16-2011, 07:18 AM
The way our guild does it in 10m started the same way. The OT pulls, MT taunts so OT can go get the adds. From this point on, one of the DPS (me, Fury warrior) runs in front, stands next to the tank and taunts during fester blood. I guess if the raid had great DPS the add would be down well before this and you could do it.

Basically what I did is every other Fury I switched to prot stance, threw a shield on, hit SB and taunted, ate the Fury, and then the MT taunted back. This way no one had more than one stack of Fury and by the time I had to do it again, my stack had fallen off. I usually had to eat the first Fury of P3 as well before the add tank (you) could get back, it was a timing thing.

If you have 2 (or more) stacks of Fury, you'll be taking a big increase in damage, your 'squishy' may not be anything more than the effect of multiple stacks of the buff (though you'll be even less squishy with that you've done).

A DK could easily just switch to blood stance, pop a CD and do the job as easy as I have.
hummm, very useful got one dk(w/ skills) on group, can ask he today to do it


I was looking at the stacks of Fury you had and assumed (yeah, makes an ass out of me) that you were on Cho'gal. Never mind on this. Your uptime won't be as high because you're on adds.




Again, I thought you were on Cho'Gal. But for this macro, switch the 2 around, shield block first, so you get the benefit of Heavy Repercussions on the SS. Make sure you have SB by itself too, sometimes you'll want to use it when you don't want to hit SS.changed





o_O Why would you have charge and intercept in the same macro? I'd just throw the macro out and use the plain 'ol charge button. changed


***


Sorry for the confusion, it was late, like 2am and I couldn't sleep when I responded. I missed some things in the log file.thank you for spending time answering my topic
will be of great help


Be ready for less consistent threat on pulls, but this just means DPS will have to go a little slower to start with. The switch from hit and exp to surivval stats will make you easier to heal. Good luck

ksnos
05-16-2011, 07:19 AM
I'd slap 'shammydwarf' upside the head and make sure he stands with the rest of the group!
shammy still close of MT and mdps on bossmdps fail to remove MC -_-

Tengenstein
05-16-2011, 07:49 AM
Almost every Spec has something that can remove the effect. Tanks Ranged and healers can also break it

Locks have lots of Fears, Succy can Seduce, puppy can interupt, and the felguard can charge stun Destro also has Shadowfury
Mages have Poly, Counterspell, Dragon's breath
Spriest have Psychic Scream
Other Priest's can attempt Mass Dispel (though this won't always hit the MC)
Ele/resto Shaman can Windshear, Hex and if all else fails attempt to Purge it (doesn't always work)
Boomkins have Typhoon, Solar beam, and cyclone
Hunter's have Frost Trap, Scattershot, and if MM Silencing Shot
Holy pallies have Rebuke and Hammer of justice
Resto Druids have sweet FA

uglie
05-16-2011, 08:03 AM
It depends on the level of mastery - the more mastery (block) you have the wider the gap between dodge and parry rating becomes before the increased parry DR cancel out the value gained from the parry by HtL.

Did not know this. So if I'm understanding this correctly, the more mastery a warrior has the larger the difference between parry and dodge should be?

Tengenstein
05-16-2011, 08:07 AM
Yup. though it's not something one would really want to try and calculate in their own head. I suggest using someone else's head.

uglie
05-16-2011, 08:57 AM
Yup. though it's not something one would really want to try and calculate in their own head. I suggest using someone else's head.

I swear some of the theorycrafting numbers need nasa's super computers to calculate. wtb wow theorycrafting for dummies book. pst with offer.

Loganisis
05-16-2011, 08:57 AM
Yeah, the logic behind it is pretty simple. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84621

10% crit block after a parry. So the more mastery you have the more block you have and the more of those blocks are already crit blocks.

This scales well with additional mastery and with SB usage, making it more likely in some cases that you'll crit block when blocking than normal block. Basically smoothing out incoming damage even more as your blocks are more likely to be 60% blocks than 30% blocks.

And yeah, as Teng said, it's kinda hard to figure out XD I think RAWR is the best bet? I know Koji has done a lot of modelling and work on HtL value compared to parry's increased DR.

Loganisis
05-16-2011, 08:58 AM
I swear some of the theorycrafting numbers need nasa's super computers to calculate. wtb wow theorycrafting for dummies book. pst with offer.

RAWR! lol

ksnos
05-16-2011, 11:14 PM
ty all for all replys,
and yea, got cho'gal down today
and i get the shoulder :P
tyvm everyone