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View Full Version : Bugged Adds on Nef (again)



Booi
05-04-2011, 08:46 AM
New fun bugs it looks like - strings of unblocked hits on tanks in phase 3.

As much as I'd like to tell these guys to quit turning their backs to the mobs - there's not a chance this is a coincidence. I looked at three different guilds, and all have the same issue. All logs are from last week or this week. Each of these gentlemen take 15-0% unblocked hits on a mob standing in front of them.

The adds seem to be moving normally: I don't feel like they're trying to sneak behind anyone (as in the anub days). Not really sure where the issue is stemming from.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yhsulbes9llme3pv/sum/damageDone/?s=6011&e=6499

[21:50:40.892] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior Dodge
[21:50:42.551] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior Parry
[21:50:43.181] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior Dodge
[21:50:43.253] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 16279 (B: 6977)
[21:50:43.253] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 13280 (B: 5692)
[21:50:43.253] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 13055 (B: 5595)
[21:50:43.752] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 23168
[21:50:43.971] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 19917
[21:50:44.107] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 25334
[21:50:44.107] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior Miss
[21:50:44.217] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 20228
[21:50:44.708] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 22442
[21:50:44.956] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 28240
[21:50:45.536] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 46492 (O: 13541)
[21:50:45.970] Kaywarrior dies

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/qd68ls9kkh0h23gq/sum/damageDone/?s=3880&e=4401

[20:17:53.759] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 10064 (B: 4313)
[20:17:54.121] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 10469 (B: 15704)
[20:17:54.121] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 9031 (B: 13547)
[20:17:54.592] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 13179 (B: 19769)
[20:17:54.592] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 5147 (B: 7721)
[20:17:54.592] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion Dodge
[20:17:54.714] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 7828 (B: 11743)
[20:17:54.924] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 23214 (B: 9949)
[20:17:55.338] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion Dodge
[20:17:55.338] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion Parry
[20:17:55.338] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 7535 (B: 11304)
[20:17:55.338] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 13402 (B: 20104)
[20:17:56.155] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion Parry
[20:17:56.560] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 32235
[20:17:56.560] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 7195 (B: 10793)
[20:17:56.944] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 33133
[20:17:57.141] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 21051
[20:17:57.449] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 14471
[20:17:58.230] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 25134
[20:17:58.535] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion Parry
[20:17:58.729] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 13403
[20:17:58.843] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 30180
[20:17:58.988] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 31976
[20:17:58.988] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 22000
[20:17:58.988] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 23568
[20:17:59.266] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 32816
[20:17:59.372] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 21842 (O: 9764)
[20:17:59.862] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 4930 (O: 12039)
[20:18:00.606] Grafarion dies

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pq8ke31gh0cny7gw/details/1/?s=6132&e=6720

[21:16:47.032][21:17:51.261] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 1932 (A: 4826)
[21:17:51.294] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 5495 (A: 2702, B: 5697)
[21:17:51.294] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 6303 (A: 2702, B: 6258)
[21:17:51.653] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 11922 (A: 2702)
[21:17:51.751] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 10366
[21:17:51.751] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 12667
[21:17:51.775] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor Miss
[21:17:52.807] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 10795
[21:17:53.166] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 10512 (B: 7305)
[21:17:53.242] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 5961 (B: 4143)
[21:17:53.307] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor Parry
[21:17:53.755] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 22233
[21:17:53.755] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 13133
[21:17:54.065] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 20227
[21:17:54.161] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 13843
[21:17:54.161] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 19075
[21:17:54.161] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 16502
[21:17:54.761] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 18121
[21:17:55.152] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor Parry
[21:17:55.212] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 12899
[21:17:55.558] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 21407
[21:17:55.624] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 18731
[21:17:55.721] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 12731
[21:17:56.211] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor Dodge
[21:17:56.211] Animated Bone Warrior hits Sintor 10167 (O: 3301)
[21:17:56.900] Sintor dies

Giliandrix
05-05-2011, 08:22 AM
Shrug the adds never seem to damage me that much since I reset all of them once. I don't think I've encountered this problem before.

Booi
05-05-2011, 11:43 AM
Shrug the adds never seem to damage me that much since I reset all of them once. I don't think I've encountered this problem before.

I hope you forgive the e-stalking. But here are the logs from your sunday kill. Just because it didn't kill you doesn't mean it isn't happening.


[23:10:13.900] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 8402 (B: 3775)
[23:10:14.667] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 16497 (B: 7412)
[23:10:15.451] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 7837 (B: 3521)
[23:10:16.010] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 7340 (B: 11977)
[23:10:16.278] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[23:10:16.297] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[23:10:17.065] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 6505 (B: 10614)
[23:10:17.873] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Dodge
[23:10:18.413] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[23:10:18.685] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 9005 (B: 4046)
[23:10:23.853] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 20367
[23:10:24.244] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 14211
[23:10:24.244] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 22480
[23:10:24.643] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 12691
[23:10:24.643] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 16126
[23:10:26.246] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 22745

Dragaan
05-05-2011, 11:59 PM
Doubt it's a bug. Probably just happens while they're running/strafing away from a meteor. Either that, or they're standing still for longer than a sec or two with all the adds on them. Need to stay in motion once they start spreading around you... Block % in those logs you linked was really low... like 40% (with ~20% hit). Our logs from Tuesday show me with almost 60% (~6% hit), and I'm sure there's a sec or two where I'm in danger of taking unblocked hits. Seemed normal to me.

Edit: Biggest string I noticed was 4 hits in a row. That happened once, and I had a 3-hit string once as well. Just sloppy kiting by me while running from a meteor I'd bet.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4gufudgyg0t8q0ex/log/?s=5276&e=5801

Giliandrix
05-06-2011, 07:37 AM
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/jupry6f1diwu9fdm/log/?s=344&e=777

[21:33:12.730] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:13.402] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[21:33:13.649] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[21:33:14.528] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Dodge
[21:33:15.137] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 5374 (B: 8769)
[21:33:15.653] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 3608
[21:33:15.813] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 20191
[21:33:16.107] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[21:33:16.932] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 18173 (B: 8165)
[21:33:17.535] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 6167 (B: 10062)
[21:33:17.891] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 3158 (B: 1419)
[21:33:23.405] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:23.687] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Dodge
[21:33:23.891] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:24.077] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Dodge
[21:33:24.882] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 2375 (B: 3876)
[21:33:25.388] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 10000 (B: 16317)
[21:33:25.685] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Dodge
[21:33:25.894] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 18675 (B: 8390)
[21:33:26.086] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 13372 (B: 6008)
[21:33:26.891] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:27.396] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 16962 (B: 7621)
[21:33:27.684] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 15219 (B: 6838)
[21:33:27.894] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 20321 (B: 9130)
[21:33:28.589] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[21:33:28.890] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[21:33:29.399] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:29.693] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:30.128] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 24224
[21:33:30.604] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 8352 (B: 13627)
[21:33:30.882] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 5114 (B: 2298)
[21:33:33.328] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 11010 (B: 17964)
[21:33:33.334] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 14507 (B: 6518)
[21:33:33.475] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:33.538] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 16215 (B: 7285)
[21:33:33.592] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:33.719] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 10244 (B: 16715)
[21:33:33.724] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:34.178] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:34.593] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 15985 (B: 7182)
[21:33:34.901] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 3016 (B: 4922)
[21:33:35.397] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 23744 (B: 10668)
[21:33:35.691] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 15139 (B: 6802)
[21:33:36.175] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 9402 (B: 15341)
[21:33:36.614] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Parry
[21:33:36.897] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 6341 (B: 2849)
[21:33:37.406] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 23540 (B: 10576)
[21:33:37.692] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[21:33:38.193] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 24318
[21:33:38.609] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 15974 (B: 7177)
[21:33:38.913] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix Miss
[21:33:39.418] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 11258 (B: 18369)
[21:33:39.705] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 20632
[21:33:40.201] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 4005 (O: 16243, B: 9097)

I think it's just you yo.

Quinafoi
05-06-2011, 07:57 AM
I hate to point out this fact...

If you take a bunch of unmitigated hits in a row (randomly) and die. Well you're dead, so it's no surprise there aren't any blocks following that point in the log. This doesn't prove that you were no longer able to block them, because you were dead there were no more additional combat table event rolls occuring. This just proves you were unlucky and died.

So when you go and see like 8 events and then you die. Well those 8 events were still random. Just because that subset of events didn't include expected results doesn't mean that those events were no longer possible (you don't get missed by 0.4 swings of 8 swings). And once you die, there are no future cases.

Very common occurance. An unexpected series of unlucky events. You die.

Giliandrix
05-06-2011, 08:10 AM
Yo I took a bunch of mitigated hits and I died LOL, in my defense though, I messed up the kiting and didn't reset a single add in Phase 3 lol.

klausi
05-06-2011, 08:33 AM
With your posting in mind we fought Nef 10 hc yesterday and i double checked my death during three P3 trys for any pattern.. but mobs moved normally and i just screwed up on the kiting part. But that might only be a problem with 12 instead of 5 mobs?

Looking at the incoming damge it just looks like some of the adds didn't reset properly and overwhelmed them:
[21:50:45.536] Animated Bone Warrior hits Kaywarrior 46492 (O: 13541)
[20:17:56.944] Animated Bone Warrior hits Grafarion 33133
[21:33:35.397] Animated Bone Warrior hits Giliandrix 23744 (B: 10668)

Regular hits above 20k ish don't occur for me with the normal stack numbers. We had another problem yesterday, a fury warrior with 150 stacks pushing two electrocutes in sub 15 seconds :p

Booi
05-06-2011, 01:41 PM
It's not "unlucky" to take 10 unblocked hits in a row when you are only taking 10% unblocked hits.
it's approaching impossible. (0.1)^10 and then to have the issue on multiple tanks from multiple guilds on different servers.

I'm not concerned about the size of the unblocked hits, just the frequency. I agree with Dragaan, it's a function of strafing poorly, adds looping behind when not moving. If we could verify that it is the latter, that would help? One of the three tanks I was speaking to was sure he never had this issue before a few weeks ago.

Like these aren't bad tanks that are running into this issue - US ranks: 1, 5 and 20.

So for now we are suggesting the: "don't stand still, they will loop behind" ?
Is it possible the issue is tied to jumping?


I think it's just you yo.

none of these logs are me. and one of them is you, "yo".

Dragaan
05-06-2011, 06:30 PM
I jump all the time while fleeing from meteors, heh. When I do everything correctly, I hardly ever take any unblocked hits (usually ~5-6% which is exactly what my stats would suggest). Pretty sure it's just people making careless mistakes (some of those logs show more careless mistakes than just taking unblocked hits). Even tanks in great guilds can get careless here n there, esp after doing the same fights for months. Those adds can be a pain too. Crap happens a lot while kiting them, esp if p3 goes on for too long. I've kited too fast at times and ran out of room (fire in front of me for more than 5seconds with no where to go), and i'll take some unblocked hits either by running through them or standing still too long. I don't think there's any bug here.

I'm gonna do the fight with 100% block+avoid next week and see how often they sneak hits in on me.

Giliandrix
05-07-2011, 06:32 PM
A sample size of 3 tanks from three specific attempts from the top 20 guilds in the US doesn't really mean anything. So when you say "there's not a chance this is a coincidence. I looked at three different guilds, and all have the same issue. " it's totally meaningless. Get a bigger sample size do more research, post on the blizzard forums.

It's simply just bad strafing, or just bad luck.

Booi
05-08-2011, 12:34 AM
Semantics are a wonderful thing. Perhaps I Should have called the thread:
"Experienced Tanks have Difficulty with Familiar mechanics on Old Content"

The bad strafing I can believe. Bad luck I do not, especially considering that the paladin in the example is block capped. You would have better odds on a lottery ticket.

I just found it odd that the first three guilds I had looked at all had identical issues in the same encounter. Especially when you consider that nefarian himself had his movement bugged during the same time frame (go go creeping nefarian). It is not an insurmountable problem by any means, but I'm not convinced that the adds are moving as they always did.

Even if nothing has changed, can you verify if the adds will loop behind if you do not keep creeping? My argument against this theory is that there aren't any blocked hits in the mix of 10 unblocked - even if some adds are looping behind, there are still more directly in front. This, of course, then leans towards improper strafing.

Garganchewin
06-15-2011, 01:46 PM
It's not "unlucky" to take 10 unblocked hits in a row when you are only taking 10% unblocked hits.
it's approaching impossible. (0.1)^10 and then to have the issue on multiple tanks from multiple guilds on different servers.

Ignoring the fact that this is most likely due to the strafing and mob overrun issues previously discussed, streaks like you have posted will happen. You found 3 cases of ~10 length streaks out of a sample of ~1000. Go flip a coin 100 times, record the results, and look at how many streaks you end up with that "approach impossibility." Put the results in perspective. This is often the first exercise in a highschool probability/statistics class.

kopcap
06-15-2011, 09:48 PM
I agree this most likely happens due to positioning / lag issues. On 25 man its very easy to let a couple mobs slip to your side unless your moving constantly and even when you are, you are usually moving in a curve, not a straight line, so its still very possible. Check mob stacks when this happens, if the stacks are high its easily explainable by their speed and range increase. Looking at the size of the hits its more towards the end, so probably that.