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View Full Version : Paladin How do I know I'm reaching the upper end of my TPS generation?



BryceE
05-02-2011, 08:01 AM
I think I'm doing pretty good with threat generation, but how could I figure out my upper end of it? I have one dps (fury war) that seems to ride my ass the whole time unless there's a boss change or something. And by that time, vengeance is stacked so high it's nigh impossible for him to catch back up to me.

I think the highest I've seen my TPS get to was around 50-64k on one fight, but that was a basic stand there and tank fight. But average is around 20-30k tps. Here's how I'm pulling and what I'm using.

On Pull: Avenging Wrath, Divine Plea (canceling the healing part), Exorcism
During Combat: CS, J, AS, HW hitting AS whenever GC procs and I need another HoPo. That's my basic priority. I do slip a consecration in there once I get going because of the 80% reduced cost of it due to my spec I'm currently trying out.

BryceE
05-03-2011, 12:14 AM
No one knows how I know I'm reaching the upper limit of my TPS?

methsnax
05-03-2011, 03:37 AM
Moving around shouldn't affect your TPS too much. I would say buffs and debuffs are going to be the biggest factor. If you maintain a tight rotation you should do alright, supplement with taunting off people who get agro and using Hand of Salvation. By all means use consecration as well you should pretty much never run out of mana as you judge almost every CD. Also there is no real point in DP unless you are way low on mana prior to pulling. If you would like more threat get more STR/AP and make sure you got Armsman on your hands.

The other thing to note that the warrior is trying to get as close to you as possible because that means he does more DPS. He's obviously decent in that some idiots just go all out regardless of tank threat and then fuck shit up, so be glad your Warrior isn't an idiot.

Lumines
05-03-2011, 08:02 AM
The maximum theoretical value for a given rotation is detailed here (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=593309#p593309), but the absolute numbers won't apply to your specific character because Vengeance fluctuates and isn't always at 100%, and you might not have exactly the same gear as the simulations used.

Anyway, the way you describe your rotation is a little ambiguous, but if you're prioritising Grand Crusader procs above Crusader Strike, then that's a straight TPS loss (details in the linked thread). "I do slip a consecration in there once I get going..." is also ambiguous and may end up being a threat loss; any time you cast Consecration you're pushing back another ability to get that cast off, so it's not necessarily a net win. Hallowed Ground is a terrible single target TPS talent either way.

Insahnity
05-03-2011, 08:17 AM
In addition to what Lumines said (all good):

I did not see ANYWHERE you talking about Shield of the righteous. Unless you are talking trash mobs, it should be front and center, especially with Sacred Duty procs and 3 HoPos. With crap gear when i just turned 85, I was slamming for 30+k crits before heroics. Multiply that by RF, you'd be hard pressed to make me believe you had any threat issues.

With the recent WoG changes, you should be having a lot more HoPos that you cannot WoG. This leaves Shield of the Righteous (insane threat), or Inquisition, and there's nothing yummier than Inquisition, 3 HoPos and Sacred Duty proc (to say nothing of Avenging Wrath once in a while). You should use your 3 HoPos as quickly as possible without wasting it for the sake of using it as soon as its available. Using WoG is now a thinking exercise, and a bit of prayer that you get the free 3 HoPos refunded back.

Never pull with exorcism+AW. You are wasting a lot of seconds either waiting for the boss to run to you or you to run to boss. As it is, Exorcism does crap damage and eats half your mana bar. At best, it's OK for goofing around or the undead boss in HoO where it's sure to crit.

Personally, I run in, I pop DP to get 3 HoPos as I get closer, Inquisition, get to melee range, (pop wings the second before I get into range)
CS->AS->CS->J->Grand Crusader Proc, else consecrate->CS->SHIELD OF THE RIGHTEOUS (and pray you have Sacred Duty proc, possibly wait for a second quick judgement before doing it but risky with that warrior)->????->Collect Lewt.

Honestly, it sounds like a rotation problem. Try fixing that first. If you can show us a parse of a textbook rotation, then you can start looking at other things.

kopcap
05-03-2011, 08:20 AM
Plug your char into RAWR, it will give you the numbers. Go smack a dummy if you want to make sure.

BryceE
05-03-2011, 09:45 AM
I totally left out SotR. That's what I use 99% of the time over anything else if I have 3 HoPo. And that 'rotation' that I mentioned above was for boss fights. Or should I say priority that I use. And I don't use GC procs over CS any day, they come if CS is on cooldown at least for me.

Running in I pop Exorcism, DP, Avenging Wrath when I'm in melee range, J, ShotR, CS, AS, etc.

And it's not just the warrior, there's a rogue that gets pretty close and a hunter. But they have TotT and MD so not worried about them going over as they both know when to use those abilities and use em. I just figured if I could get some more threat, then they could open up more and get more DPS in (warrior bursts up to ~35k as of now).

EDIT: Also on the RAWR thing, I was messing around that and I'm like "uh??"