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View Full Version : Warrior 4.1 change is a fury buff...right?



Bung
04-26-2011, 09:14 AM
I know warriors on the PTR are stating that fury dmg is about the same but with this....



Precision (passive) now increase auto-attack damage by 40%, in addition to the 3% hit it offers currently.
Unshackled Fury now only grants 2 base points of mastery, down from 8.

I have to believe it's a somewhat significant buff for fury. The white attacks are a large part of our overall damage. Doesn't more damage on white hits create more rage? That will also help overall damage, especially for SMF. Is the mastery change something that offset the precision change leading to our dps overall being the same?

I know the stat priority changes slightly. hit>mastery and possible making haste not as poopy (but still last). Isn't this a buff overall? You're thoughts please....

Kazeyonoma
04-26-2011, 11:28 AM
I haven't seen the final PTR notes, and so much changed back and forth for warriors damage output that I can't say 100% what went live or not, the 40% auto attack damage should help as it's pure buff from the 3% hit precision used to give.

I'll move to DPS forum and hope for more informed people to help.

Toushiro
04-26-2011, 11:33 AM
I kinda think it's a buff for SMF and a bit of a nerf bat to TG since last I knew TG favored mastery largely. (I play SMF in PvE so can't really say about TG)

Macbrother
04-26-2011, 09:05 PM
Definitely a buff even for TG. I pretty much had new highs on every single boss tonight, and jumped a whole whopping 3.75kdps on Argaloth. One perspective I didn't think about (with the increase in melee and the decrease in RB) is that our dps is less random-based (around enrage procs) and therefore a lot smoother overall.

Kerg
04-26-2011, 09:11 PM
My DPS on Magmaw stayed about the same vs. last week. 20,214 last week vs. 20,069 this week. The breakdown was different, though...

Last week:
BT: 24.7%
White: 22.7%
Other: 19.5%
RB: 13.1%
Execute: 11.5%
HS: 8.5%

This week:
White: 28.2%
BT: 23.8%
Other: 20.0%
RB: 10.6%
Execute: 9.6%
HS: 7.8%

So the main difference is that White damage is higher, Raging Blow is lower. So as OP said, Hit and Haste just became more important than previously. Mastery probably stayed the same? I have been running at just over 8% Hit since last patch. Wondering if I should raise that? Or stick to Mastery/Crit > Hit > Haste after 8% Hit?

Zaitochi
04-27-2011, 12:35 AM
I figured with TG you can still do fine with 8% but SMF id go for more hit since RB doesn't hit as hard.

I run my fury spec with TG and SMF though so I won't be able to get max deep wounds or incite.

In terms of damage differences I use 2 different sets for TG and SMF, my SMF set is slightly better but I need to rebalance them around. I was testing my DPS on H Chimaeron and I pulled about 17-20k with SMF and 14-17k as TG. My rage management is terrible lol

Loganisis
04-27-2011, 01:34 AM
It does seem to be a buff, even for TG. Damage is more consistent, due to the white damage buff, but there are smaller numbers now when you hit golem's blood + death wish + Reck + Collossus Smash :-(

TG with 8% is fairly sub-optimal now. You'll see better results dropping your mastery into hit (basically). Running with TG AND SMF, even if you swap weapons for the execute phase, is almost certainly a straight DPS loss. If you have the weapons, run SMF.

I want to switch over to SMF but unfortunately all I seem to see are 2H drops :-( Probably the only guy in the world complaining that I have Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Hope and Keyboards and Everything else related to archeology XD

****

Base mastery went from 8 to 2. The resulting reduction in the modifer of enrage abilities/ abilities requiing enrage and the 40% buff to hit (as I was corrected about a week ago), means the current priority is:

Str > Hit to 8%/Exp to 26 > Crit > Hit to 27% > Mastery > Haste.

I was playing around in RAWR earlier and Crit and Hit had almost identical values as a TG Fury Warrior. I'm 359 in everything except helm/gun/both rings and my current stat weight in TG, according to RAWR, is:

Str = 1.84
Crit = 1.14
Hit = 1.1
Mastery = 1
Haste = 0.88

I'm currently at 21.3% crit, 12.78% hit, and 7.07 mastery (I do miss my 14 mastery CD stacking points :-( )

WTB 2 359 DPS Str Swords... :-/ LOL

Zaitochi
04-27-2011, 02:22 AM
I don't switch my TG/SMF weapons during fights I stay in 1 gear set for the whole fight. If its a movement based fight I use TG and if its minimal movement I go with SMF.

If you arena you should probably pick up the PVP claws or the quickblades etc those will be ok for SMF but I'm still trying to get my 2nd Lava Spine.

Also I hate you for getting Zin'Rokh D: I still can't get that darn thing 117 troll solves lol

Helgebroed
04-27-2011, 03:17 AM
the current priority is:

Str > Hit to 8%/Exp to 26 > Crit > Hit to 27% > Mastery > Haste.



Does this mean that all reforges that have been set to mastery should be turned over to hit again?

Bung
04-27-2011, 07:20 AM
It appears that way although it's really early. Within a week or so the "experts" will confirm it.

Helgebroed
04-27-2011, 07:37 AM
It appears that way although it's really early. Within a week or so the "experts" will confirm it.
ah ok, i will wait for that then. Thnx mate

Kerg
04-27-2011, 07:58 AM
Does this mean that all reforges that have been set to mastery should be turned over to hit again?

If possible, reforge mastery into Crit. If it already has Crit, then reforge mastery into Hit. That's what I did last night. We'll see how it works.

This patch also buffed Haste by 40%. (Edit: To clarify, indirectly... through 40% increased white damage, which is affected by Haste.) It's still our weakest stat, but not near as crappy as it used to be. We should also see a sizeable increase in our dps during Bloodlusts for the same reason.

The Mastery stat was not nerfed. It's just that Hit and Haste were significantly buffed, and Hit passed up Mastery in priority.

Helgebroed
04-27-2011, 09:21 AM
If possible, reforge mastery into Crit. If it already has Crit, then reforge mastery into Hit. That's what I did last night. We'll see how it works.

This patch also buffed Haste by 40%. It's still our weakest stat, but not near as crappy as it used to be. We should also see a sizeable increase in our dps during Bloodlusts for the same reason.

The Mastery stat was not nerfed. It's just that Hit and Haste were significantly buffed, and Hit passed up Mastery in priority.
ok mastery into hit but what about stuff with haste? Do we keep the haste or do we reforge that into hit aswell? (or mastery when already hit)

Loganisis
04-27-2011, 09:43 AM
Wait, where is this 40% haste buff coming from? Haste gained some value because of it's synergy with hit (giving you a few more white attacks landed) but because it doesn't really affect your yellow attacks, it's still lowest on the totem pole.

Basically: Make sure gear has crit. After all gear has crit, reforge to hit 8% hit/26 expertise. After that reforge into hit.

Reforge haste first, then mastery. Reforge expertise as allowed - sometimes you will reforge expertise and hit into each other to try to get as close to the 26 exp rating required as possible.

Helgebroed
04-27-2011, 10:10 AM
Wait, where is this 40% haste buff coming from? Haste gained some value because of it's synergy with hit (giving you a few more white attacks landed) but because it doesn't really affect your yellow attacks, it's still lowest on the totem pole.

Basically: Make sure gear has crit. After all gear has crit, reforge to hit 8% hit/26 expertise. After that reforge into hit.

Reforge haste first, then mastery. Reforge expertise as allowed - sometimes you will reforge expertise and hit into each other to try to get as close to the 26 exp rating required as possible.
ok, and what about gemming?
yellow: is a 20strgt-20haste better then a 20strgth-20mastery
blue: 20strgh-20hit is ok I guess

Loganisis
04-27-2011, 10:30 AM
Gemming is still at the 'look and feel' stage. Here are the givens:

Haste = bad. Mastery = not good. The gems you'll use (or their JC counterparts) are:

40 Str
20 Crit / 20 Str
20 Hit / 20 Str

Those are really the only 3 gems you'll use.

* Red = 40 str.

* If the bonus is 20 str PER non-red gem then either 20 crit/20str for yellow or 20 hit/20str for blue.
- So if an item has a yellow slot and a +20 bonus, use the crit/str gem.
- So if an item has a Red and Blue slot and a +20 bonus, use pure str for the red and use the hit/str gem for the blue. If it's R/(B/Y), you can look at the bonus solely from the perspective of the non-red slot.

Then it gets fuzzier, and I don't know if there's a consesnus yet. No one is ready to commit to the Fury weighting being set 100% as it was in the end of Wrath.

If it's a 10 str slot bonus - some people prefer to gem for the bonus, some people prefer to gem for pure strength.
If it's a 20 crit or 20 hit bonus - some people prefer to gem for the bonus, some people prefer to gem for pure strength.

If the bonus is haste/mastery, skip it. Expertise bonuses generally come with red slots only, so you're likely to hit it anyway.

***

Now, what do I do? I gem for socket bonuses that give 10 str or 20 hit/crit per socket. But that's what I do personally. It could be better in those cases to gem pure Str - but the difference is *probably* going to be fractional either way.

squats
04-27-2011, 10:30 AM
Wait, where is this 40% haste buff coming from? Haste gained some value because of it's synergy with hit (giving you a few more white attacks landed) but because it doesn't really affect your yellow attacks, it's still lowest on the totem pole.

Basically: Make sure gear has crit. After all gear has crit, reforge to hit 8% hit/26 expertise. After that reforge into hit.

Reforge haste first, then mastery. Reforge expertise as allowed - sometimes you will reforge expertise and hit into each other to try to get as close to the 26 exp rating required as possible.

there is no haste buff, it got taken out early on in the ptr. flurry was buffed quite a bit, i belive up to 50%, but it was reverted.

and up to the OP. More white damage doesnt increase the amount of rage you generate, the number of hits you land does, but the amount gained per hit is equal across all hits.


for now i would stay with what loganisis said

Str > Hit to 8%/Exp to 26 > Crit > Hit to 27% > Mastery > Haste.

pending a change in base mastery or just the amount of mastery and hit we get in the next tier, the priority will eventually get back to what it was. Mainly because the amount of damage per point of mastery didnt change, just the amount of base mastery we get.

Helgebroed
04-27-2011, 10:41 AM
Ok, well I will use this prio and spread this in my guild untill we have an update.
and thnx for the post about gemming, it's like I thought and you put it straight to the point:p

Kerg
04-27-2011, 11:15 AM
Wait, where is this 40% haste buff coming from? Haste gained some value because of it's synergy with hit (giving you a few more white attacks landed) but because it doesn't really affect your yellow attacks, it's still lowest on the totem pole.

"Precision (passive) now increases auto-attack damage by 40%..."

We now do 40% more white damage across the board. So as I see it, both Hit and Haste received roughly a 40% buff. One by making you land more white attacks, the other by making you swing faster. Both directly increase white damage.

Looks like Haste is still our worst stat, but it's significantly less terrible now.

Right?

Loganisis
04-27-2011, 11:30 AM
"Precision (passive) now increases auto-attack damage by 40%..."

We now do 40% more white damage across the board. So as I see it, both Hit and Haste received roughly a 40% buff. One by making you land more white attacks, the other by making you swing faster. Both directly increase white damage.

Looks like Haste is still our worst stat, but it's significantly less terrible now.

Right?

I dunno, maybe it ends up working that way, but throwing out something like a 40% buff is misleading without adding the context of because of how it interacts with white damage. White damage got the buff. Hit and haste become compartively more valuable because of their interaction with white damage. They didn't actually recieve a buff in the sense that by themselves they got better. It's probably splitting hairs.

Haste is less bad than it was but since it still is the least effective stat, it should still be avoided when possible :) (and it still hurts to look at the T11 warrior itemization)

Kerg
04-27-2011, 02:21 PM
k, I edited my post to clarify. :)