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glaivtank
04-15-2011, 02:55 AM
hi there

well i'm having some issues with my warrior tank, first of all is the aggro, i can't hold much aggro while raiding or even in heroics, 2nd is my armor/defense, mobs take the crap out of me specially when they are casters i really need help because i can't raid like this and i really want to improve myself!

well my armory link is:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/glaiv/simple

My rotation is:

heroic throw - charge - rend - thunder clap - shield slam - revenge(if it proc'ed) - shockwave - cleave and devastate.

also would be nice if you help me with an ui because i have simple addons:

Omen Threat Meter - Recount - dbm.

i'm tryin to get the tol barad master trinket i think it'd be prefect for me and also wanted to ask wich macros would help me .

Thank You.

Glaiv.

Angur
04-15-2011, 10:42 AM
For starters:

- You have +50 hit rating enchant on your bracers. Try getting the +50 dodge.
- Your gems seem to be fine as well as your rotation.

Your problem is your Mastery is not high enough. To overcome this... reforge your gear. You have some pieces of gear with hit rating and expertise that need to be converted into MASTERY. Every piece of your gear MUST have Mastery on it.

- If you are taking too much damage.. remember to always have demo shout up 100% of the time.

- With your spec, get rid of "Blitz" and put it in War Academy to help your Devistate TPS. Also... your missing 2 Major Glyphs.

Loganisis
04-15-2011, 04:32 PM
Gems are fine? No, they are not. Glaiv, you're not tanking hard modes, so your best gemming strat for making yourself the easiest to heal, is:

Red = Parry/Mastery
Blue = Stam/Mastery
Yellow = Mastery
Prismatic = Mastery
DPS Bonus = Mastery (e.g. socket bonus is haste/hit/crit/etc)

****

Your spec needs work. You have threat problems but you don't have Deep Wounds, which is the single best threat talent, per talent point, out there except maybe Heavy Repercussion. Blitz and Blood craze are frankly, crap.

3/3 in War Academy, 2/2 in Field Dressing (which isn't crap at all), and 3/3 in deep wounds. Keep the 2/2 in Cruelty.

If this is going to be a heroics/raid tank build, take the 2 points out of thunderstruck (which isn't bad, but points are better elsewhere) and the 2 points out of Gag Order. You'll use 1 point to go 2/2 in cruelty, and the other 3 into Incite.

This will do wonders for your threat.

You're also missing 2 prime glyphs - get Devastate and Revenge. Drop the Resonating Power major glyph, it isn't good (you'll have plenty of rage when you get mastery up) and use the one that expands the distance 2 yards or another DPS.

****

Gear - every piece of gear doesn't have to have mastery on it. But that is ideal. Mastery/(Dodge/parry) > Dodge/Parry or Mastery/(hit/exp).

***

Your rotation will vary slighly based on the amount of vengence you have (e.g. shockwave starts out weak and then becomes #3 on the priority list). You also should have different rotations for trash packs versus bosses.

For example, in a single target environment:

Heroic Throw -> Charge + Shield block (off the GCD) -> Sheild Slam -> Concussion Blow. At that point SS > Rev > Rend (with 3 seconds left refresh it with a TC or if it's fallen off) > Dev. After a short amount of time, it will be more like SS > Con Blow > Shockwave > Rev/Rend > Dev. Demo as needed, HT if you can fit it in.

Shield Block, with Heavy Repercussions, should be used in low damage periods on CD for the threat gain (makes SS hit like a truck).

In a multi target environment your opening is more correct, but Shockwave > Rev after a little bit.

Heroic Strike + Cleave should be used as rage allows.

****

You're a JC, you should have 3 Fractured Chimera's Eyes.

****

You have way too much dodge raiting. You have 2000+ dodge and 1400 parry. Parry > Dodge for warriors (Hold the Line procs). Ideally those 2 should be switched so:
A) If you have dodge/parry gear, reforge the dodge into mastery.
B) If you have mastery/dodge gear, reforge the dodge into parry.

It won't make a huge difference, but it will help. Ideally you'd probably want those 2 values flipped, with parry ~25% rating points higher - this is tough though, I've yet to figure out how to optimize dodge/parry rating in RAWR (Koji, help? lol) to min/max this. But typically, reforging dodge first, then parry is the way to go.

****

Addons - You actually don't need many. You hit the 2 key ones. Omen and DBM. Recount is fine, but it is more of a distraction when tanking, Omen is the key one. You may also try Bulldog/X-Perl/Bartender to customize your UI to a way that works better for you. You don't really need a lot of addons to tank.

****

In my sig is a link to a rough (it's not perfect) guide to war tanking but more important to you at the moment is the link at the bottom of it to WarTotem's spreadsheet. I'd download the spreadsheet and plug in your numbers and adjust the vengence % so you get an idea of how to prioritize your abilities. It's a great tool.

****

And just to tag along with the enachnts Angur mentioned - dodge/mastery > hit/exp enchants for wrist/gloves. Legs need enchants. Helm needs enchant.

Weapon chain is fine. Unless you can afford windwalker (and putting it on a 346 wep is a waste), it's personal preferrence really between weapon chain and Mending. I prefer mending, but if you're worried about threat, Weapon chain is fine.

Bigbad
04-16-2011, 01:37 AM
Everything loganisis said, fix the last 2 major glyphs, sort out the enchants/gems and reforge stats properly so you have around 10/11% dodge 14-15% parry and 50% block.
As for your spec deep wounds, war academy and incite will do wonders for your threat, personally i would keep gag order as its nice for pulling casters.

Tidy plates & threat plates are nice addons to keep the overview of which mobs have aggro.

Single target aggro use inner rage so you can use heroic strike every gcd, during shieldblock you should have enough rage for this. Prepotting a strength potion in raids also works nicely for an extra boost.

Aoe threat i usually open with cleave+rend on the first gcd then tc>shockwave. If the casters in a pack rape you mark them with skull, interrupt, spellreflect or just cc them. Shieldblock+inner rage and cleavespam is also lovely, make sure to keybind hs/cleave so that you can perform your regular rotation while using them.

Deathwish238
04-16-2011, 01:45 AM
hi there

well i'm having some issues with my warrior tank, first of all is the aggro, i can't hold much aggro while raiding or even in heroics, 2nd is my armor/defense, mobs take the crap out of me specially when they are casters i really need help because i can't raid like this and i really want to improve myself!

well my armory link is:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/glaiv/simple

My rotation is:

heroic throw - charge - rend - thunder clap - shield slam - revenge(if it proc'ed) - shockwave - cleave and devastate.

also would be nice if you help me with an ui because i have simple addons:

Omen Threat Meter - Recount - dbm.

i'm tryin to get the tol barad master trinket i think it'd be prefect for me and also wanted to ask wich macros would help me .

Thank You.

Glaiv.

You look pretty good overall gear wise...some small changes I would make:

Gemming:
Hands: Put a Stamina Mastery gem here instead
Belt: Put two Fractured Chimera's Eyes here
Boots: Put a Fractured Chimera's Eye here

Reforging: Overall looks good, I would lower your Dodge if possible in favor of Parry on a couple pieces.

Talent Wise: You need to respec. For Glyphs, where are your other two prime glyphs? That's just silly.
Arms: Drop Blitz, get 3/3 Deep Wounds(2/3 if you really want)
Fury: Blood Craze sucks, drop it. If you're not sure, look at how much it heals you for an entire heroic using Recount. Keep Cruelty.
Prot: 3/3 Incite is a must imo. Get it. You're pretty much free to get anything else here. I don't think Thunderstruck is worth it and I only have 1/3 in Shield Spec which only gives you more rage. I also do not have Imp Revenge, but that's up to preference. Deep Wounds gives greater threat.

Raiju
04-16-2011, 03:11 AM
Regarding threat generation I recommend taking 3/3 shield spec, this allows you use inner rage on cd with heroic strike/cleave on cd. This is a huge tps boost. Also every time I am pulling a raid boss I prepot a golemblood pot.

Loganisis
04-16-2011, 06:40 PM
personally i would keep gag order as its nice for pulling casters.

This is really more of a personally preference. I've found myself wanting Gag Order before to make life easier, but I've never found myself in a place it was an absolute must.

There's enough CC out there now, that even when you're in a druid heal, 2 warriors, DK, and bear group you have some options (AotD ftw!, DK deathgrip, mild OT) that it isn't really a problem. And in a decent group (2 or 3 classes with good CC) you don't need to really pull the casters anyway... Charge and walk back to where you want them.

But it is a personal preference... I don't think it's worth the 2 talent points. But it does have a strong fan base.

Deathwish238
04-16-2011, 09:41 PM
Gag Order is preference, not required. It's pointless for boss fights obviously and more meant for trash.


Regarding threat generation I recommend taking 3/3 shield spec, this allows you use inner rage on cd with heroic strike/cleave on cd. This is a huge tps boost. Also every time I am pulling a raid boss I prepot a golemblood pot.

Threat is a non issue after 30 seconds on boss fights...so the tps boost doesn't really matter much. The golemblood pot is an interesting idea to keep aggro in those first 30 seconds.

Loganisis
04-17-2011, 12:13 AM
Threat is a non issue after 30 seconds on boss fights...so the tps boost doesn't really matter much. The golemblood pot is an interesting idea to keep aggro in those first 30 seconds.

It's more a hard-mode thing where the enrage timer is a factor.

Raiju
04-17-2011, 04:38 AM
Gag Order is preference, not required. It's pointless for boss fights obviously and more meant for trash.

Threat is a non issue after 30 seconds on boss fights...so the tps boost doesn't really matter much. The golemblood pot is an interesting idea to keep aggro in those first 30 seconds.

Yes gag order is useless in raids, but if someone is still focussed on 5 mans it is a must imo. I cant afford 2 points on it but I miss it a lot every time I do a 5 man.

Threat is indeed a non issue after the first 30 seconds, but being able to have a huge burst in those 30 seconds allows your dps to use their dps cds earlier. It also usefull in other situations, like when you pick up an add, taunt from other tank, etc. Picking up an add and imediatly shield block+shield slam+inner rage+hs spam should gives a nice threat lead.

klausi
04-17-2011, 08:36 AM
but if someone is still focussed on 5 mans it is a must imo.
It was a pretty solid talent when you started doing heroics with 330ish gear and had to cc everything. Nowaday with an average ilvl of 350+, up to +15% hp/dmg/healing buff from LFD tool and all tougher bosses/mechanics nerfed to the ground it's back to Wrath's aoefests all the way.

If you're already deep into the fight and have to pick up adds it shouldn't be a huge problem thanks to lots of attackpower via vigilance'd vengeance from the MT.

Loganisis
04-17-2011, 09:21 AM
Gag Order was NEVER a must. Even with a 333ish ilvl, first starting to tank heroics, I didn't have it spec'd and I really didn't need it. It can be nice for heroics, and I did wax poetic about it a few times - but by the time everyone's in a good chunk of 346s?

Skull healer, CC the second healer if there is one, go. Gag Order is a useful talent for sure, but the cost, 2 talent points for something that is really only valuable if you don't have good CC, is just too high.

Reev
04-17-2011, 09:27 AM
I love it. Don't feel like I give up too much to get it. It's a preference. Maybe if I lose all my misdirects and tricks someday, I'll think about dropping it in favor of Heavy Repercussions, but I use the silence effect on Gag Order constantly in 5 mans, and even in that first hallway of BoT trash. Again, not vital, as trash is trash, but I don't find any of the talents I give up for it vital either, and I like the utility.

Raiju
04-17-2011, 10:03 AM
The beauty of the prot warrior talent tree is that you have so many viable options. For tanking 5 mans I can't see any place where 2 points will be more useful than gag order, but then again who gears/specs for irrelevant content.

Anyway, regarding the op, as some have said I recommend speccing into incite, its such a huge part of our threat. If after that you have threat problems focus on tightening your rotation (dont ever miss a s slam pro, maximize h strikes, etc).

As for macros you dont need much I just use a charge/intercept/intervene 1 button:
/castsequence [harm] reset=15 Charge(Battle Stance), Intercept; [help] Intervene
and I add /startattack /cast xxxx to all major abilities in order to maximize white attacks while target switching

Gregasaurous
04-17-2011, 04:33 PM
On the subject of Gag Order, i find it EMENSELY useful in Vortex Pinacle.

Deathwish238
04-17-2011, 05:36 PM
Yes gag order is useless in raids, but if someone is still focussed on 5 mans it is a must imo. I cant afford 2 points on it but I miss it a lot every time I do a 5 man.

Threat is indeed a non issue after the first 30 seconds, but being able to have a huge burst in those 30 seconds allows your dps to use their dps cds earlier. It also usefull in other situations, like when you pick up an add, taunt from other tank, etc. Picking up an add and imediatly shield block+shield slam+inner rage+hs spam should gives a nice threat lead.

I personally like Gag Order. It gives us higher utility and lets me a be a better tank(preventing damage and controlling mobs).

Especially the higher threat plate wearing DPS...they need the tank's higher initial aggro to pop their CDs.

I was looking at your spec, you don't find that you need Deep Wounds? My previous experimentation with Blood Craze was very underwhelming, do you find it to be worth it? I guess for your spec it's Deep Wounds vs Blood Craze.