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gailair
04-12-2011, 11:41 AM
My warrior is well geared at about ilvl359
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/gailair/simple

I use the standard TG rotation, (CS on c/d, BT, RB, slam procs, HS >60 rage) and fight dependant wil see an average of 16-19k dps.

I'm just looking to see if anyone has any suggestions, or can see if I'm doing anything wrong, because there is an arms warrior in my guild whose gear is lower than mine but is consistently at the same or higher dps than me(which is fine, except I thought arms pve was in a much worse position than fury pve)

Any help or incite is appreciated.

Loganisis
04-12-2011, 12:13 PM
Logs are going to be more helpful at this point.

Small things - you have 20 crit/20 hit gem - replace with 20str/20hit

(Gun, reforge exp to crit + Wrist haste -> Crit instead of exp, OH Weapon Mastery -> Crit instead of exp)??? Seems like you can trade some mastery for crit this way.

(maybe chest -> haste to mastery, cloak haste to hit) this should move a little extra hit into mastery?

****

Additionally SMF > TG now for damage and this widens a little in 4.1 I think. Logs will probably be the best place to get meaningful feedback.

gailair
04-12-2011, 12:24 PM
ok, so your basically saything that I must be doing something wrong in the rotation?

Am I correct in assuming that fury > arms in dps atm?

Also..made those adjustments, squeezed a little more AP and crit out...ty
I know smf > tg, but what I understood was the difference was not tremendous.(like 400-500 dps)

Loganisis
04-12-2011, 12:46 PM
gailair,

It may not be something wrong in the rotation, it could be lag, slower reaction times, bad luck, RNG cold streaks at the wrong time...

It could also be HS > 80 (instead of 60), are you stacking CDs? (Golemsblood + DW + Reck + CS + rotation?). Are you using CDs at the best time in the fight (like Magmaw's exposed head)? There are a lot of things that gear doesn't tell you.

****

The difference is 'small' for now at the very tip-top top-end, but here's where top end is misleading...

1) These players just don't make mistakes. You and I do.

2) Sub-hard modes, SMF is 10-12% hit build, so you have a little more overall rage

3) SMF is a smoother rage income build - swing timers at 2.6 seconds base instead of 3.6/3.8 mean you'll never go more than 2 GCDs without the chance of a white hit, whereas a bad miss string (MH, OH, MH miss and then OH's 50% rage hits) and you've got a 10 second span where you're rage starved. So SMF is a little harder hitting and it's a little more forgiving to miss strings.

4) In 4.1 there's going to be a white attack buff (which is basically a push between TG and SMF if hit is equal, but hit isn't until hard modes from what I understand) and a base mastery nerf (remove 4 mastery from the Fury tree base bonus, will be 2 instead of 6). That will affect TG a little more than SMF and widen the gap a little.

It still is, whichever set of weapons you have at the higher item level wins, but SMF does have a slightly higher ceiling and is slightly more forgiving, and will grow slightly more powerful compartively in 4.1

****

But to the original question - my guess is the improvement you want to see is more in how you use your abilities, not your base build.

Orcluvin
04-18-2011, 02:02 PM
Also Arms does not have the rage problem that TG has right now. So it may not even be lag or rotation or gems or anything like that. It could simply be that you do not have as much rage as he does. There are Arms warriors with my gear level (359) or lower that do 20k. I also do 20k. From what I have seen, they can only do 20k. So it may just be a rage problem

Bubblematrix
04-19-2011, 02:13 AM
I would check your rotation, small variations in rotation and priority give big variations in DPS for TG warriors.

Another thing to bear in mind is the RNG factor in our class/spec, it easy to use as an excuse, but in one fight you will get good procs and put out loads of DPS in others you will just not hit the procs and will find your DPS trail off a bit.
That said it seems like you have observed a lower DPS over time.

All the advice given so far seems valuable, but one to take a serious look at is your client side lag. Too many people nerf their DPS by not having a rig powerful enough to meet thier skill level. I personally added 4k DPS between crappy old PC and new all singing one. Its something to look at.
If you suspect this then try a FPS monitor, or switch off all your addons, heavy load addons such as Recount can actually start to effect how your client present cooldowns and so your dps.
Get used to your client lag and try to learn to hit your abilities as they are in the lag fluff, you can be loosing quite a few CDs over a medium fight if you arent overlapping button presses.

I hope you find the issue, speaking from experience, it can be really frustrating when you don't quite hit what you know you can DPS wise.

gailair
04-19-2011, 05:45 AM
Thanks for the advice...I actually found it to be a combination of a number of the problems you all implied. Basically a bunch of little things that added up to a lot of lost dps.

1)installed power auras (I probably should have done this a long time ago) I no longer hit the wrong key on a battle trance, and never miss an incite proc. Not sure how many of these I might of messed up on.
2) Started using HS at ~ 65 rage
3) retooled my UI to put rage bar at eye level

These 3 changes were enough to put me up around 19k consistently, and I switched Sunday to SMF..had me over 20k and in top 3 on most fights.

Just a quick question on SMF as I fond little specific info on it. The rotation is the same as TG except we move Slam procs ahead of RB? and I noticed that you aim for a little more hit than TG as well, so I assume that HS is higher on damage list.

Selendis
04-26-2011, 04:49 AM
2) Sub-hard modes, SMF is 10-12% hit build, so you have a little more overall rage

(...)if hit is equal, but hit isn't until hard modes from what I understand

I apologize for asking stupid questions, but I need some clarification here.
From what you're saying, I understand that one should aim for 10-12% hit as SMF (I'm getting smarter already), but does that change with the content? and to what? to the best of my knowledge boss levels remain the same on normal and hard...

Crittable
04-26-2011, 10:02 AM
I apologize for asking stupid questions, but I need some clarification here.
From what you're saying, I understand that one should aim for 10-12% hit as SMF (I'm getting smarter already), but does that change with the content? and to what? to the best of my knowledge boss levels remain the same on normal and hard...

I can only guess at what Loganisis was saying with this since I have not hit hard modes and neither has he iirc...

I believe that he's saying that you should have somewhere near 10-12% hit while doing normal modes. When you move into the hard modes, dps needs to tighten up in order to beat the bosses so an increased hit would help with white damage and a larger constant rage pool. Also, with heroic gear, there is more room for more hit considering the higher ilvl's have higher stat allocations.

Just a guess.

Loganisis
04-26-2011, 11:28 AM
Well, now that 4.1 has dropped, it's a moot point. I'm TG, I can't get the drops to switch to SMF (or archeolgoy, damn Tol'Vir, damn! lol). But from what I've read and seen, in 4.0.6, maximizing damage meant ~10-12% hit on normal modes, then 8% on hard modes for SMF because hard modes hand enough raid-wide damage to give you the rage to maintain your rotation, with those 2-4% hit in mastery instead.

Now in 4.1, Hit > Mastery so everyone will have enough hit from reforging, so it's a moot point really. The hit question has basically resolved itself as the early 4.1 priority, from what I have seen, is :

Str > Hit to 8%/Exp to 26 > Crit > Hit to 27% > Mastery > Haste