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gaalias
04-07-2011, 11:48 AM
Got Halfus down to 25% this week, however I cannot believe how much damage is going out to our tanks on this fight. I am a holy paladin and usually have little to no trouble healing raid tanks. We had nether, slate, and storm. We pull nether first to slow down the build up of MS. We would love to have 2 drakes up but it seems our tanks get owned in about 3 hits with two drakes up. We grab storm as soon as nether dies. I understand having the MS debuff is pretty nasty and that tanks need to trade taunts. We have been trying for 5 stacks. It almost seems that the drakes hit harder than halfus and having stacks on you while tanking drakes is a pretty dodgy situation. I read on here that MS can be removed with divine shield (I haven't tried this yet). Is this the best strategy? We have 2 warrior tanks with 350 gear and at least 50% block. It seems that more damage should be mitigated/avoided than what is currently happening. I have the tanks working on keeping their cooldowns on rotation (especially at the start of the fight). I know we can do better than this...plz help..

Theotherone
04-07-2011, 12:04 PM
The stacks reduce healing received. I heal this as a Disc priest and I'm on the tanks as they get Halfus since I have Power Word:Shield; while the debuff does decrease healing received, it has no effect my shields.

Yes, the pally can bubble it off, just needs to be quick to get his aggro back by taking off his bubble.

Quinafoi
04-07-2011, 12:14 PM
If you are getting Halfus to 25%, you are well past the difficult part of the encounter already... unless your DPS is on the wrong target completely.

Avoidance technically does help because it increases the time between stack applications, which is why the Nether Scion's debuff of adding 25% chance to miss is so crucial when Nether Scion and Slate Dragon are both present. If the boss doesn't connect with his swing, the debuff is not applied.

Mitigation helps reduce incoming damage, but it makes no difference if that damage is still greater than the person can be healed through while they have the debuff. If a healer can only heal you for 5k HPS cause of a debuff, if you're taking 10k DPS in damage (even if mitigated down from 13k DPS), it is still more damage than can be healed.

The mortal debuff is a physical debuff so any physical immunity will remove it including Iceblock, Divine Shield, and Hand of Protection. If the tank uses Divine Shield or receives a Hand of Protection from some other paladin, they should cancel it immediately so they can begin tanking again. Many tanks may have macros like this for such an occassion.

/cancelaura Hand of Protection

If you're swaping every 5 stacks, you're probably swaping too often and not letting it fall off the other tank, resulting in two people being high in stacks and unhealable.

Again, a key concept of the debuff is if he can't hit you, it isn't applied. Since you aren't releasing Storm right away, you can't interrupt the Shadow Nova even if you wanted to. With this in mind, you can actually extend the duration a single tank holds the boss by kiting him more. Mobility effects such as Intervene and Heroic Leap to get away from the boss can slow the rate of incoming stacks. Additionally you can have your tanks swap by taunting from range so the boss has to run over to the new tank before starting to apply the debuff. Once interrupting the Shadow Nova becomes a priority however, you will not want to be kiting him unless you can have a ranged DPS like an Elemental Shaman reliably interrupting for you.

For my 10 man we have the benefit of a protection paladin and a holy paladin so have the benefit of two stack drops. We have one tank handle the boss to like 10-12 stacks, get a Hand of Protection and start tanking again. By the time he starts building up again we are on the second drake. The other tank takes over on the boss and does similar, tanking relatively high in stacks then sheding them with a Hand of Protection and then tanking the rest of the way until the second drake is dead. Generally speaking in combinations that involve Slate Dragon we don't bother killing him at all so at this point it is just trading back and forth the boss whenever your debuffs fall off.

gaalias
04-07-2011, 12:24 PM
We are pulling halfus from a distance by misdirecting towards the tank to reduce incoming MS debuff stacks. I am a little worried about the loss of aggro on tank with bubble (instant death to our melee interrupts). I think the idea about stacks not falling off because we are only going for 5 is RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Perhaps 7-10 stacks is the solution. Kiting halfus during nether and making sure we let stacks fall off has to be the answer. Thank you for your helpful replies.

Quinafoi
04-07-2011, 12:27 PM
Why do you have interrupters on the boss if you aren't releasing Storm at the start? Until you can interrupt something, there is no reason to dedicate someone to a task that can't possably be done. After the first drake is dead there should be a significant threat lead for both tanks as they have taunted the boss.

The other tank taunts first, Hand of Protection the prior tank while the boss is meandering his way over to the other tank and hit the cancelaura macro and taunt back. Preferably before the other tank takes any debuff stacks, but if he gets one or two cause he was tanking Halfus and a drake for a second or two it ins't the end of the world cause they should fall off before he needs to taunt again.

gaalias
04-07-2011, 02:59 PM
Yeah having the cancelaura macro is a great idea...i remember doing this back in wrath. I give a shot for sure. You are right about the melee. We have a rogue who is going to be on the drake and not halfus until the second drake is up so...not too much of risk there. Just working on the timing with the tank who is bubbled....and voila. Although there is 5 min cooldown on HoP. It certainly would be nice to have another paladin to work with on this to trade CD's with. But all in all I think this is enough to push past that 25% marker...anything to help save healer mana..

captanmurdoc
04-07-2011, 05:31 PM
One tip, pop hero at the start, the faster more drakes die, the easier the fight becomes. once 2 drakes are down the only way you should wipe is to a tank death from furious roar or healer mana

mistraele
04-07-2011, 09:17 PM
we usually swop at 7-8 stacks. personally we just put our strongest tank on the drakes and tank two off the bat. yea it can be touch and go, but focusing healers on that tank, plus burning down with a lust and popping all CDs, can see you through. once one drake is done, its really simple. burn other one down and then go to town on halfus.....

Matrox
04-09-2011, 02:11 AM
Release 2 drakes at once or 3. On 10 stacks palla should use HoP on MT, after this and cancel aura your MT should use trinkets/skills with avo buffs.

This is part of HC tactic. If you wanna do this at easy mode use disco/smite priest and done. Halfus it isn't hard boss.

Tank should swap at 6 stack on N and 4 stack on HC. These dragon should die on AoE damage. If any of your tank has trinket from USE, then he must use it!

klausi
04-09-2011, 02:40 AM
If you wanna do this at easy mode use disco/smite priest and done.
Halfus has been changed a long time ago, he doesn't has a plus damage modifier until a drake dies (instead of released like before).

Normalmode:
- you'll always want to release Stormrider so you can kick the Nova.
- I'd release Netherscion over Timewarden (especially if you happen to have no paladin for hand of protection in your raid). If you time your cooldowns (avoidance ones first and shieldwall later on with 6+ stacks) you should be able to survive for quite some time. He really doesn't hit that hard after the drake being released (-25% attackspeed, hit, damage).
- if you got hero burn it 10s into the fight after everything is positioned and focus on a drake.
- bombing whelps becomes way easier if you have a mage and some drakes are already dead (Ignite spreading), literally they die instantly.


Tank should swap at 6 stack on N and 4 stack on HC.
The tanks should swap when their debuff fell off, that's every 30s.

Prucilak
04-09-2011, 07:58 AM
This weeks comp (Nether/Slate/Storm) is not too difficult with the right strategy and makeup. Ive done it twice this week on my prot pally and prot warrior. If you use Divine Shield (the 100% bubble for 8s) you do not have to cancel the aura. Just taunt. HoP on the other hand has to be canceled. Use those 6-7 seconds wisely to heal the group back up because hes not stacking the debuff up, and the tank isnt taking any damage. I tend to like keeping Halfus about 15 yards or more away from the group so when you bubble, you have time to retaunt without him making someone go splat.

First group, we had 3 Prot Pallys. 2 are badly geared and our MT is very geared. We put him on Halfus. At 15 stacks, he bubbles and immediately taunts. Myself and the other prot pally were going back and forth on Nether whenever we ran out of cooldowns. We just ate the shadow novas. Nether has to be dead before the stacks reapply on the first tank.

Last night, we ran with a prot pally and a very geared prot warrior (me.) For us to 2 tank it, I stood with nether and picked him up and the hunter MD'd storm to me. The way the mechanics work, nether has to die first. His buff on the boss fades when he dies. Storm makes the boss's shadow nova interruptable by just being released. The pally interrupted the best he could, but once nether was dead the fight was faceroll. Finish off the drakes and burn him down.

klausi
04-09-2011, 07:43 PM
TFirst group, we had 3 Prot Pallys. 2 are badly geared and our MT is very geared.
What does badly geared mean? Itemlevel 312? Please don't eat the shadow nova, release both Storm and Nether so your heals won't be interrupted any longer. This shifts increased raid damage taken (40k dmg/person every 12s - that's 3.333 dps per person or 33.333 rpds) and decreased raid damage dealt to stable raid dps and increased tank damage taken (40k/swing at most). Two-tank him, pop lust and other dps cooldowns/potions at the start and zerg either storm or nether down ASAP.

The way the mechanics work, nether has to die first. His buff on the boss fades when he dies.
It doesn't matter which one, the debuff on Halfus is applyied on release. This has changed month ago to trivialise the fight and make it beatable for 10 mans without stacking disc priests or tanks on heroic mode.

The "geared" tank should always take the drakes - they are hitting way harder. Give Halfus tank a hand of protection/hand of freedom combo (cancelaura works well, too) so he can tank Halfus for the first minute. During this time you should be capable (with and without lust) to kill the first drake. After that it's a cakewalk, just top the raid/tanks before roar.

Urud
04-11-2011, 02:02 AM
If you tanks die at the below 50% phase , all you have to do is rotate CDs like Pain Suppression/Shield-Wall and so on each roar for the Offtanks that are tanking the remaining drakes.
The Halfus tank does not take any damage exept the 10-20k roar ticks so he doesnt need anything wishlist the the boss is casting roar he doesnt mele but the other drakes do and your healers being stunned does not help.

klausi
04-11-2011, 02:36 AM
If you tanks die at the below 50% phase , all you have to do is rotate CDs like Pain Suppression/Shield-Wall and so on each roar for the Offtanks that are tanking the remaining drakes.
That's why they changed the encounter. Either kill the drake and get another +100% damage bonus on Halfus or don't bother with releasing them at all. This way you don't have to worry about tank death during roar.

Fayre
04-11-2011, 04:43 AM
Klausi is right, it makes no sense whatsoever not to kill those drakes and get the modifier on Halfus. It might seem like its backwards but Halfus's health flies down with those damage modifiers on him.

uglie
04-12-2011, 11:00 AM
I believe last week (for slate, nether, storm) our prot pally said he waited til 19 stacks of MS before bubbling them off, but that was with all cd's rotated and PS. We also kill all 3 drakes, and don't really see a reason not to since after the 3 drake dies only 1 tank will be taking any dmg.

As for the cancel aura macro I would think a macro like:
/cancelaura Hand of protection
/cast (your taunt)

should work as long as the the HoP doesn't cause them to untarget. Sorry don't have a pally > lvl 7

Prucilak
04-13-2011, 10:39 AM
What does badly geared mean? Itemlevel 312?
It doesn't matter which one, the debuff on Halfus is applyied on release. This has changed month ago to trivialise the fight and make it beatable for 10 mans without stacking disc priests or tanks on heroic mode.



About 340 average level. The geared tank is about 353 level or so.

Maybe heroic is different, but regular, I noticed it was the opposite as youve mentioned. Nether's speed and AP buff never came off until he was dead.

klausi
04-13-2011, 11:32 AM
[21:13:17.969] Nether Scion casts Nether Blindness
[21:13:19.731] Halfus Wyrmbreaker afflicted by Nether Blindness (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=83611) from Nether Scion
[21:15:24.319] Nether Scion dies.

Or just check any recent log on WoL, it's casted on release.

gotpho
04-13-2011, 12:42 PM
About 340 average level. The geared tank is about 353 level or so.

Maybe heroic is different, but regular, I noticed it was the opposite as youve mentioned. Nether's speed and AP buff never came off until he was dead.

The buffs are never removed, Halfus just gains a debuff completely separate from the buffs he has when each drake is released.

Prucilak
04-13-2011, 03:38 PM
I guess I am wrong then. Which is odd because I could have sworn he was completely decimating my war tank until nether died, then damage reduced.

Quinafoi
04-14-2011, 07:39 AM
Maybe he was decimating your warrior tank because there was a dragon up beating on someone else taking away from your healing. You're not dying any faster, it's just your getting less healing because healing is being distributed to more targets.

chaoswhite
04-14-2011, 07:44 AM
This is old news now, but given this week's setup, I thought I'd toss my 2 cents in.

1. DPS must be 10K+ steady minimum
2. Tanks/Healers must be heroic dungeon geared.

The above, pending all players are competent with their class, means gear is not an issue and you can win.

Important: The protodrake spits fireballs at random people throughout the fight. If you see a puff of smoke at your feet - get out of it! This is avoidable damage that the healers would have to stress over!

Nether/Slate/Storm Drakes

Okay, we typically do this fight with a "V" formation, where both tanks are standing alongside one another with boss inbetween and in front of them. We do this mostly because Slate is active, so boss needs to be in a position where tanks are taunting off one another.

We also pull 2 drakes, putting one drake on each tank. This means when tank A has halfus, he has a drake beating on him, meaning steady heals are needed. Tank B is on a drake. When Tank B needs to taunt Halfus, he's in position, taking heavier damage now, but healers know he's about to take it. It's a psuedo-mitigation of damage (and a lot cleaner, imo). Our first tank taunt is at about 6-7 stacks, then other tank announces over vent when his debuff has cleared and takes back aggro on boss. Tanks should have cooldowns ready when they are fighting Halfus, due to excessive damage.

In this fight, Storm dragon needs to be released so Shadow Nova is able to be interrupted. In the situation of Slate being up as well, tanks would (until Patch 4.1) need to be hit-capped in order to interrupt. Otherwise, a steady dps should be on boss with interrupts. Note: If you miss an interrupt early on, your tanks will most likely die. This is a raid wipe on most occasions. So be ready, a typical 10-second cooldown interrupt works best.

Pull Nether drake as well. If only for the fact that it nerfs the bosses ability to stack the debuff on tanks.

Ignore Slate dragon. Its just a tank swap - nothing you can't (by this point with your gear) just burn through.

Pick either Storm or Nether drake > Bloodlust > Burn down dragon 1 > Burn down Dragon 2 > Burn down boss. Done.

Important: The protodrake spits fireballs at random people throughout the fight. If you see a puff of smoke at your feet - get out of it! This is avoidable damage that the healers would have to stress over! (see what i did just then?)

And, this week:

Slate/Time/Whelps

Same strategy, no interrupts needed. Tanks in "V" formation with boss. Tank on Whelps, Tank on Time. Bloodlust burn drakes > Burn Time (the bastard) > Burn boss, ignoring Slate.

Important: The protodrake spits fireballs at random people throughout the fight. When we saw a puff of smoke at our feet - we got out of it! This is avoidable damage that the healers would have to have stressed over!

Twas a 2-shot. Our best yet. :)

Hope it helps!

Quinafoi
04-14-2011, 07:50 AM
Important: The protodrake spits fireballs at random people throughout the fight. If you see a puff of smoke at your feet - get out of it! This is avoidable damage that the healers would have to stress over!

Unless Time Warden is present and released, the fireballs are nearly instant. This includes both his normal single target fireball and his Fireball Barage ability he gains from the Time Warden being in the encounter. You would only be able to dodge it if you were already moving before the puff of smoke even appeared. The only thing you can really do if Time Warden is not present is to make sure you are spread out enough to not have splash damage from the random fireballs. You emphasize this when talking about last weeks composition where it isn't viable.

Quinafoi
04-14-2011, 07:56 AM
Also you realize that there is Slate so yes you have to taunt, but this week there isn't Storm so you don't have to interrupt. You can taunt from range, since you don't need someone ready to interrupt at any time. While the boss is moving, he is neither dealing damage or building up stacks of the debuff. So having both tanks next to the boss in this weeks composition is only benefitial for cleave damage, not from a standpoint of either tanking or healing, it would actually make both of those roles harder.

javsaddiction
04-14-2011, 08:23 AM
So couldn't one tank take the drakes while a second tank kites the boss. Since he'll be moving, he can't stack that debuff, right?

gotpho
04-14-2011, 09:11 AM
So couldn't one tank take the drakes while a second tank kites the boss. Since he'll be moving, he can't stack that debuff, right?

He moves fast enough that you can't really kite him. You can bounce him back and forth between tanks, but it's really not worth the effort from what I've seen in normal. Personally I pre-pot an agility pot to boost avoidance and use a pally's HoP to wipe the stack when it gets high. That's generally enough time that at least one drake is down by the time we need to swap.

Amethystine
05-08-2011, 07:16 AM
If you're learning the fight, it's wholly plausible to take a third tank. Indeed, if you've got Slate, it can make the fight a ton easier. It's not as though DPS will have a problem taking down Halfus in a hurry after the last drakes die.

rogralla
05-13-2011, 04:11 PM
I heal as a holy pally in my 10 man raiding guild and we don't have a problem keeping tanks up at all. Using your bubble correctly and making sure that tanks save CD's when they get to about 7 stacks is vital. Also there is no reason not to release the Shadow nova drake. Releasing the one that reduces attack speed/chance is great but your tanks and raid will also be taking extra damage from the nova. If you are inturrupting correctly the raid will take 0 damage other than the few fireballs and your other healers should be able to help keep tanks up. And because you are releasing the shadow nova one and reducing raid damage you should also be able to release attack speed/chance as well since your other healers should be fine in keeping him up with 2 drakes. Try it like this and you should get it, also until you get more gear try 3 tanking it we used to when it was hard and it was how we handled that setup. Hope this helps

Contravene
05-13-2011, 04:27 PM
3 Tanking Halfus is the fun easy chat and laugh way to do it.. I like the Halfus fight or actually BoT as a whole. Even though Cho'gal did get us so far we rocked him pretty good and coordination is getting better. Wife and I were commenting to one another last night after our second night on Cho'gal.. Epic fun.. The video after the first raid night we were instructed to watch was of course tankspot because you are so informed then from there you just keep practicing..

P.S. Specifically assign the interrupts and have people remove timers for things they do not need. So when the correct timer comes up they realize they will have to interrupt soon. (My theory is if you don't need to know it remove it from your screen)