View Full Version : The Weekly Marmot - Effort and Endgame

04-05-2011, 07:23 AM

04-05-2011, 08:15 AM
The most important thing i learned today is that lore is a time traveler! :D

04-05-2011, 08:29 AM
Again, seems to be missing the full screen button. Please fix?

04-05-2011, 09:34 AM
OMG, Lore is a Time Lord!

04-05-2011, 11:30 AM
Again, seems to be missing the full screen button. Please fix?


04-05-2011, 12:39 PM

Again, thank you Kaz. What is causing that?

04-05-2011, 01:02 PM
I just want to comment briefly on something Lore talked about this week in regards to casual “progression.” I don’t want to touch the hardcore vs. casual thing except to say that in my own experience and view of other small guilds, casuals are having a hard time with normal modes this time around. Whether that is good or intended is beside the point. If end game for casuals is intended to be limited to a 5 man progression through normals > heroics > ZA/ZG etc, I can pretty much guarantee that won’t be satisfying to anyone except the most casual of casuals.

I think the dungeons are pretty well designed this time around, but the shine has worn off them. I see the Lost City loading screen and I bet I’m as happy that I’m in for a nice, quick run as any hardcore raider is.

The hope among my friends and I is that ZA/ZG will help jumpstart our stymied raid progress, and not be the only thing we can do until the next set of 5 mans. That content gets old fast for casuals too.

04-05-2011, 01:20 PM
< Watches the GSL.
< Is awesome.

Btw Lore, did you see MarineKingPrime's game against MC last night/today? Talk about an emotional comeback!

04-05-2011, 03:48 PM
Again, thank you Kaz. What is causing that?

we have different tags for youtube videos depending on what we want, lore's been using the default one, i've been changing it to the one with extra options is all.

04-05-2011, 08:44 PM
Seems quite obvious to me what the community latshes on to, and why.
The community will latsh onto what gives the most satisfaction, and the community has determined that 25 man raids are harder than 10 mens.
The content might be tuned the same (which i doubt) but the bottom line is that it's harder to find 24 other talented persons to raid with, than 9.
It is therefor harder for someone to raid in 25 man settings, and therfor, all other things equal, it gives more satifaction to do so.
I also do not get it how donjons could ever be considered end-game by anyone. I mean end-game is always the end of the game, where there is nothing beyond.
Whether I can, or can't, reach it is irrelevant.
It's like if someone said hey, lets said 1000 rating is PvP end-game

[edit] trying to take away the wall of text format

04-06-2011, 02:01 AM
I agree with everything Lore said. The only thing I would ask of Blizzard is that they make me a complete exception too the rules other have to play by.
- I expect my Heroic Tier 1 Cata gear in the mail plz... thanks

04-06-2011, 02:43 AM
I have to disagree with Lore and "the community" on the whole 10 man is not real raid as opposed to the 25 man raid and in particular the 25 man raid being harder or having same difficulty as 10 man raid. In my experience 10 man raid groups are much harder than 25 man because bosses arent always scaled in hp at 2.5 times for 25 man raids but most importantly a 10 man raid has almost 0 tolerance for faults which lead to "in combat" deaths. in a 25 man one, two or even 3 dps can die and group still has all buffs and can bet the enrage timer - even a tank can die and get battle ress - however in a 10 man you will often not have those options and 1 dps death in start of encounter can easily mean wipe

04-06-2011, 04:05 AM
I have to disagree with Lore and "the community" on the whole 10 man is not real raid as opposed to the 25 man raid and in particular the 25 man raid being harder or having same difficulty as 10 man raid.

If you look at the video again, you'll notice that Lore never implied that that was his opinion. I had to go watch it again to make sure.

He states that there is hardly any difference between 10 and 25 man when it comes to difficulty (and i assumed that this goes both ways, some fights can be harder in a 10-man group, others are easier) and no difference at all when it comes to loot. And that he is puzzled over the fact that the "community" seemed to have agreed on that 25-man raiding is harder.

I'm not sure what Lore said to make you believe that, because to me he is very neutral in the video.

04-06-2011, 10:50 AM
Everyone I've talked to and everything I've read is saying that 10's are harder than 25's. The few pug 25's I've done on alts I've seen 5 ppl (1/5th of the raid) die early in the fight and the rest of the group barely sweat it. Yet in my 10's if 2 people (again 1/5th of the raid) goes down it's usually going to be a wipe. Granted 25's are usually harder to get together and organize but imo that should have no bearing on how 25 man fights are tuned.

04-06-2011, 02:30 PM
just saying if you traveled the time to talk about wow then u may have an addiction lol

04-07-2011, 07:09 PM
What, 25 man raids are on a par with 10? 10 man Conclave vs 25, enough said. If you see a 10 man guild that has, or almost has cleared raid content know that they have had the grind on. 25 man equals far more survivability, battle rezers and overall options to counter any obsticles. 10 man raids share the same loot as 25 man raids, but the options available are slim within such a tight setup. The conclave example should be more than enough to point out where the differences lay.

Love the weekly marmot though, keep it up <3

04-08-2011, 10:27 PM
Your TV example really highlights the utter ridiculousness of the hardcore argument, even though it was presented in favorable light. What the hardcore seem to want is permanent achievement, in an impermanent genre. It was not enough that the guy who was first on the block with the TV was THE guy to hang out with for X weeks, that everyone envied him and wanted to be him. It was not enough to know that when his friends bought their TVs way later (for less effort), nobody envied them or came and hung out at their houses. The guy (and hardcore) want their transient achievements to be permanent, recurring investments with infinite dividends, now and forever.

Were the X weeks/months before the content was nerfed not enough? Is the personal knowledge that you did something hard that few other people could do at the time not enough? Apparently not.