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View Full Version : Tanking Squishy Tank needs HALP



ViSh
04-03-2011, 02:20 AM
Hey,
This is my first WoW toon and I chose a tank (unknowingly). I did ok/well(sometimes) until I reached lvl 85 and now I am facing some serious issues. I have read all I can about rotation, gear and tried getting on raids and somehow I started getting called a squishy tank. I am including my armory link to look at my armor and please suggest any changes. Also I use the current rotation for tanking.

BOSS
Charge>Taunt>rend>shield slam> thunder clap>revenge> Heroic Strike (if rage excess)
For mobs
Charge> Rend> thunderclap> shockwave> revenge> cleave>shield slam

Please provide constructive comments

tyvm
Cutiechan

Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/caelestrasz/cutiechan/advanced

Martie
04-03-2011, 02:42 AM
Wait, you use taunt in your basic rotation? That's stupid.
(It generates no threat and does increase the mobs DR for taunt. No gians, big risks.)

Fetzie
04-03-2011, 02:51 AM
try getting the baradin warders mastery trinket; it takes about a fortnight of daily quests but is totally worth it - the resistance boost is pretty massive and it has a really short CD.

Take a look at the ring from the earthen ring (exalted), it might be better than one of yours.

Get a paladin or druid to buff you kings and hit battle shout, then reforge to try and get your dodge and parry ratings similar (kings and battle shout increase your avoidance/avoidance ratings).

klausi
04-03-2011, 03:02 AM
Don't use your taunt while pulling. Use heroic throw (off global) + charge instead to grab the intial aggro. This way you have taunt ready if some overeager dps pulls aggro shortly afterwards. And don't apply rend or thunderclap on the start, you want as much aggro as possible and you want it right NOW.

0 Battles- or Commanding Shout for 20 extra rage
0.1 you might want to start with Retalation or Recklessness
1 Heroic Throw + Charge
2 Berserker Rage while connecting, it's off global cooldown
3 Shockwave (can't be blocked or parried)
4 Concussion Blow
5 Shield Block, it's off global cooldown as well
- now you want to fill in as many Shield Slam as possible during Heavy Repercussions (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=86896) -

1 Shield Slam
2 Revenge/Devastate
3 if Sword&Board (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=46953) procced: Shield Slam else: Revenge/Devastate
4 if Sword&Board (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=46953) procced: Shield Slam else: Revenge/Devastate
rinse and repeat

After shield block wears off you can start applying Thunderclap, Demoshout and Rend. If you're worried about the increased damage taken either have your dps/offtank apply the crucial debuffs or have them to wait so you can do it on your own.

Use Shieldblock on cooldown (of course unless the boss won't attack you during the next 10 seconds..) and be generous with your defensive cooldowns (Shieldwall, Laststand, Enraged Regeneration and possible trinkets).

--

Specc: What's that? Blitz, Battle Trance and Gag Order are all fairly weak talents and there's no room for them in a raiding specc. You can pick up Cruelty/War Academy/Deep Wounds for threat, Blood Craze for increased healing (but it's fairly minor), Safeguard and Piercing Howl for utility. My allrounder one looks like this. (http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LG0cZ0bZIfGzRRozbu:V0ocqz0zM)
Glyph: Victory rush glyph? Get another one depending on the fight (spell reflect, shieldwall, 5 less rage or +2y on thunderclap). Only pick one shout glyph (always keep a stack of dust if your setup raid doesn't cover both buffs) and replace the other one with a demo shout glyph, this way you only have to apply it every 45s.

--

Gear: You're losing some percent avoidance due to not keeping dodge and parry close enough together. Around 3% difference is ok for keeping the hold the line buff up. Besides that it's almost perfect, just reforge the gun and your shoulders (to mastery instead of hit) :)

--

But well looking at your gear this can't be the real problem. You only downed one raidboss yet (besides Argaloth) so there are other things which has to be fixed. I guess you aren't sitting down while tanking (haha) so it's positioning, encounter comprehension or your raid strategies in general. Maybe it's even not a problem on your end but on your healers side (still in WotLK mode or something like this).

swelt
04-04-2011, 04:01 AM
In my experience, being called "Squishy" comes down to a number of things:
- Gear. Your armory shows you in DPS gear, but if Klausi says it's fine, let's assume it is. Gear would have to be pretty bad (or a lot worse than your other tanks) for this to make a *huge* difference (much as we like to dwell on optimising it).

- Technique. This is much more commonly the cause. Maybe you aren't making good use of defensive cooldowns. Encounter awareness helps this, understanding when the right time to use your cooldowns (making the best use of shield block is huge for a warrior). Maybe you aren't good at keeping up thunderclap and demo shout... this is a discussion you need to have with your group: these debuffs or their equivalents need to be kept on the boss at all times. If no-one else is doing it, you should be. If you happen to run with a death knight or a feral druid or something similar, they may be keeping some of this up passively, but find out (or better still, customise your UI so that you can easily see).

- Class differences. This used to be a big one with warrior vs paladin tanks, less of a big deal now. Inexperienced raid groups wouldn't understand why things were easier with a paladin than a warrior tank. The paladin was automatically keeping up the attack speed and AP reduction debuffs, and his ardent defender was automatically reducing certain key damage fights that they should have been making plans for in the case of the warrior (Gormokk in TOC being the biggest offender) so they just took away "warrior is squishy". Probably still happens, but I've not seen it as frequently of late.

- Confidence. This one is much harder to deal with, but sometimes your healers will lose confidence in you as a tank. They start to think of you as 'squishy'. This could be rooted in a historical problem related to one of the two previous points, but even after you gear up or get better at using your cooldowns and keeping up your debuffs, confidence is a hard thing to regain. Deaths that might really be no fault of yours might get attributed in their minds towards you being 'the squishy tank'. I don't have any great suggestions about how to fix that, other than to try your best to be awesome, to get confident in your own abilities and to communicate with the rest of your group.

Michultradk
04-04-2011, 12:19 PM
- Confidence. This one is much harder to deal with, but sometimes your healers will lose confidence in you as a tank. They start to think of you as 'squishy'. This could be rooted in a historical problem related to one of the two previous points, but even after you gear up or get better at using your cooldowns and keeping up your debuffs, confidence is a hard thing to regain. Deaths that might really be no fault of yours might get attributed in their minds towards you being 'the squishy tank'. I don't have any great suggestions about how to fix that, other than to try your best to be awesome, to get confident in your own abilities and to communicate with the rest of your group.

The first sign of this will be asking you to DPS more and even sit for certain bosses, if they are stand up people they will tell you the reason, though most likely they will just hope you quit. Most people have a mindset that the tank (and healers for that matter) need to know what's going on and can't be trained. Not taking away from DPS but they can get better over time and not wipe raids time and time again and only get scrutinized when execution is perfect over and over but the boss doesn't die before the enrage timer kicks in.

It's a sad fact that if this happens, after some time of trying to regain your toons respect, you might have to leave that group for another one. It may sound drastic, and if you are RL friends with some of them may not happen, but it has happened to me. The first real raiding guild I was in during Wrath when I was really learning to tank I did make mistakes and die a lot so my toon was deemed incapable of tanking, I had no choice but to leave. If you find yourself in this situation look at it more as a stepping stone, in real life it's not uncommon to quit one job for a better job, hell it's quiet common. Use that guild as much as you can to gain experience of bosses and mechanics to market yourself better for the next group, kinda like building your resume.

Again this may be drastic and I hope it's not like this for you.