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fabcunha
04-01-2011, 07:09 AM
Hello guys, this is my first post here.

I started playing about three months ago. I loved the game simce the first time I played it and turned 85 a couple of weeks ago.

Since then Iīve been noticing my lack of dps on dungeons... I never am on first place, usually in third, which I think itīs pretty bad, altough sometime we have to sheep things.

I made some research and found out that Frost lacks dps in relation to Fire or Arcane. So I would like to know a few things:

- How much am I missing here? Is the difference that big between those specs? Does it worth it to learn it?

- What is the best rotation for Frost?

- Do you guys have any other tip about my class that could help me evolve as a player?


Thanks a lot in advance.

Warboxer
04-01-2011, 08:47 AM
Do you have to be frost for pve?

I used to play frost only, as I found (and still do) that Arcane is so damn boring, so I switched to Pve Fire and my DPS is high and it's fun too.

I would recommend trying Fire, there's several rotation threads on tankspot too that will help.

Jacobhwrd
04-02-2011, 11:44 PM
Well I have a Mage and I play frost pvp and arcane pve. First frost can make VERY good numbers for pve but it is EXTREMLY player dependent. If you want to blow through dps as frost for pve I would just do some research first. Sorry I can't go in detail but if you email me @ Jacobhwrd@hotmail.com I would be more then happy to help you out. Good luck with your search.

klausi
04-03-2011, 01:24 AM
First frost can make VERY good numbers for pve but it is EXTREMLY player dependent.
Frost is pretty far behind on every pve raid encounter. You might just want to check the top 40 samples of heroic raids to get an idea at stateofdps.com. Frost is really only interesting for it's advanced survival options (barrier + block twice), Replenishment if you happen to run regulary without either a ret paladin/shadow priest/resto druid/destro warlock and it's huge burst with Deep Freeze on Conclave while on Wind Shield duty.

For regular dungeons (including heroic versions) fire easily bypass frost thanks to it's better aoe capabilites.

Jacobhwrd
04-05-2011, 09:38 PM
Yeah frost isnt good for raiding because it doesn't have the dependable dps that fire and arcane have but for 5m Hs it is more then enough to get by. I use it in Hs and I make anywhere from 8-13k dps. That is why its not good for raiding is because its just not reliable but it's still doable if the op really wants to stay frost.

Subzeronoh
04-06-2011, 06:06 AM
It's simple, because mage frost spec isn't any good for dungeons/raid PvE... it simply lacks damage. Frost is much more control/cc spec then pure dps. I would recommend you mage fire spec as it's not so hard and when you got good gear it's really fun :)

fabcunha
04-06-2011, 06:24 AM
Yeah, I gave fire a try... lets just say that I wont be using frost for PVE anymore.... my dps vastly improved.

murvan
04-06-2011, 06:42 AM
lol who go frost pve? every frost mage i have been in grp with have done grap dps. frost is for pvp not pve. Go fire or arcane for pve,but if you go fire, you will easy get agro, beacuse of your hight threat.

fabcunha
04-06-2011, 06:50 AM
Yes. Learned that the hard way too.

kawika
04-06-2011, 02:08 PM
Frost CAN do good dps. You need to do a bit of research into it. All things being equal, in most situations, arcane and fire will do more, but you won't be dragging your heels either.

I've been stubborn and kept my mage as frost since vanilla (it's an alt so i'm not worried about him being optimized). Did a very small amout of raiding with him in BC and did ULD/TOTC/ICC in LK. Yes there were times when dps wasn't as i'd like it and then there were other times when myself (and others) were surprised.


Your best bet for theorycrafting is checking out the elitist jerks site. It's been a while since i checked it, but some of the discussion i found there helped me:

* Try to save Bf procs for when fof is up (assuming DF is on cooldown).
* Try to keep 1 charge of fof up if you can for bf procs, DF or IL the second charge off.

They also discuss optimal uses of cooldowns (coldsnap, freeze, etc.).





Some other personnal notes far:
*Use of frostfire orb can be rough sometimes on trash because of positioning: where you are facing which affects the direction orb travels and tank may move mobs away from the path unintentionally/unknowingly. Also terrain screws with frost fire orb pathing (read: travels 2 feet then blows up infront of you). Not sure how fire is affected by the use of their orb, but it's a pretty big deal for frost fully talented due to the orb being able to proc FoF ever time it attacks.

* Deep freeze makes up a good portion of our dps as well as "burst" dps, which we can't really use on trash. You could try to use it to get buffed FB shots or hope for IL crits on it, but depending on the group make up, you may not get the full frozen time on the mob.

* Also with trash, mobs tend to die relatively quick we don't have the splash dmg that fire does and arcane is bursty in it's nature (i think). So if you're looking at it from one combat engangement to another scenario, you really aren't getting the full picture. (You really shouldn't be looking at it that way when judging performance anyways, but some people still do.)

* Boss fights, when there's a lotta movement going around, you shouldnt worry too much if your dps drops, especially if you end up moving more than everyone else for some reason. IL spam only gets you so far.

* Another thing, if you just started playing 3 months ago, not sure if you're used to GCD clipping (or whatever you call it). For frost, basically that means hitting IL just as the cast on FB is ending. This gets off an IL after FB without needing to wait for a GCD. I use this when i need to burn off a second charge of FoF and DF is on cooldown (otherwise it would be use DF instead of IL to clip the GCD). I think there's similar things for fire and arcane so i think either way it's something you should get used to.

fabcunha
04-08-2011, 10:04 AM
Great! Thanks for the advice!

murvan
04-11-2011, 12:56 PM
just so you know, arcane going to even more boosted in 4,1

Arcane Blast damage has been increased by 13%. In addition, the stacking effect of Arcane Blast now increases the damage done by Arcane Explosion, and Arcane Explosion does not consume that effect.
Arcane Explosion damage has been increased by 13%.
Arcane Missiles damage has been increased by 13%.
Blizzard damage has been increased by 70%.
Frostbolt damage has been increased by 10%.
Talent Specializations
Arcane
Arcane Barrage damage has been increased by 13%.
Improved Arcane Explosion now also reduces the mana cost of Arcane Explosion by 25/50%.
Frost
Fingers of Frost bonus damage applied to Ice Lance has been increased to 25%, up from 15%.
Ice Barrier base damage value has been increased by approximately 120%. In addition, the benefit from spell power has been increased by approximately 8%.
The root effect from Shattered Barrier now shares diminishing returns with the root from Improved Cone of Cold.

Griff
04-11-2011, 04:54 PM
They dropped the 13% damage buff to AB in favor of a faster cast time (2.0 instead of 2.35 seconds).