PDA

View Full Version : Tanking Where are all of the Fast Tanking Weapons??



jworley
03-27-2011, 10:41 PM
Were fast tanking weapons removed with the Cata expansion?? Everything I keep running across has a speed of around 2.5 or higher. Still using Rimefang's Claw for just that reason.

Can someone please enlighten a poor old school tank?.....:)

Thanks.

Mäcintosh
03-27-2011, 10:46 PM
Everything is now an instant attack, so there are no more on next swing attacks for cleave or heroic strike. Therefore no need for fast weps.

Selendis
03-27-2011, 11:46 PM
in fact, due to how devastate, deep wounds and (I think) heroic strike works, slow weapons are actually better, and have been since 4.0

Illidra
03-28-2011, 07:41 AM
fast weapons were for more hc strieks, which are no longer 'on next swing'

slow weapons = more damage = mroe threat.

fast weapons = redundant

Riz
03-28-2011, 07:45 AM
And paladins? They had no HS, Dev, etc...But yea, slower weapons = Harder specials..But i always thought faster weapons gained more rage for warrs, or seal procs for pallies?

klausi
03-28-2011, 09:02 AM
It's all normalised. A fast weapon of 1.0 speed might net you 10 rage per swing while a slow weapon of 2.0 speed net you 20 rage. Harder specials was something that a lot of us already got used to during ICC with a Bloodvenom Blade (http://www.wowhead.com/item=50672) or equivalents over the faster regular tanking weapons.

Riz
03-28-2011, 10:11 AM
ahh ok....I didnt realize the amount of dmg from a melee(auto) swing had any impact on the amount of rage generated...I personnally wanted slower weapons in wotlk, but the only thing i saw was 2.0speed fromOny..which ofcourse i never saw drop! Other than my DK, my tanks had 1.6 weapons

Loganisis
03-28-2011, 10:27 AM
Riz - I think you're close to it, but just be careful, it's not the auto-attacks that matter.

Special attacks are usually based on weapon damage. So a slower weapon will have a higher base damage, and thus scales better since you can only use the ability once every 1.5 seconds.

Take devastate for example: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=20243

150% of weapon damage.

So if you're choosing from WotLK era weapons (ignore the fact they are DPS and not tanking):
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50759
will not hit as hard as:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50046

But it's not the white attacks, that part should be 'normalized' (meaning 100 swings of a 1.0 swing timer will result in the same damage, on average as the 50 swings of a 2.0 swing timer weapon in the same period).

It's because every 1.5 seconds, if you just spam devastate, Bone Warden does roughly 50% of Quel'Delar, so:
If Bone Warden devastates (just looking at base weapon damage) is 100% and the devastate multiplier is 150%, then Bone Warden's Devastates = 150%.

Quel'Delar is roughly 200% of Bone Wardens, and the devastate multipler is 150%, then Quel'Delar devastates are 300%.

And since this is every GCD (1.5 seconds) and not based on the swing timer, if you went with a fast weapon, your GCD attacks, that are based on Weapon damage, would be hitting for a fraction of what slower weapons are hitting for.

***

This isn't a clean example, because I'm not 100% clear on the full mechanics (is Devastate like HS, where it's top-end damage?), but it does illustrate the basic premise. It's not really the auto-attacks that matter, but the weapon's impact on GCDs that matter.

Airowird
03-29-2011, 06:23 AM
Actually Loganisis, it's average damage (which is not always the same as top end damage), and nearly all attacks either scale purely with AP (like Heroic Strike) or normalize weapon speed.
A normalized attack uses 2.4 speed when it comes to AP scaling, but does use the damage done by the weapon. So a slow weapon does do slightly more damage.

Example: 500 DPS weapons & 7500 AP
Heroic Strike does 8 + 60% * AP damage.
In our example; 4508 damage.
Devastate does 3*336 + 150% * weapon damage.
3*336 = 1008 + 150% * (base wpn dmg + AP/14 * 2.4)
the AP/14 is the DPS you gain from AP, the 2.4 is the normalized speed for all 1H weapons besides daggers
= 1008 + 1.5 * (wpn dmg + 1285/714285714285..)
With a 1.6 speed weapon, the average damage is 800 (1.6 * 500)
With a 2.6 speed weapon, the average damage is 1300
1.6 weapon Devastate: 1008 + 1.5 * (800 + 1285.7..) = 4136.57
2.6 weapon Devastate: 1008 + 1.5 * (1300 + 1285.7..) = 4886.57
This is a 750 gain (= 1.5 * DPS * speed difference)
Or relatively: 18.131% more damage just from the speed.

So slower is better.
There is a balance between how much you get from higher DPS but lower speed values, but that depends on your total stats.

jworley
04-03-2011, 07:22 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate it..:)