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grizlee
03-24-2011, 10:16 AM
Our 10 man progression raid team is having an issue with an Arms warrior that pulls threat on a regular basis. He has great DPS but tends to over-threat the tanks at the wrong time and be one-shotted or put the run at risk with stressing the healers. Caveat: my only experience with warriors is with a lvl 58 Fury/Prot that I only occasionally level and haven't had in a dungeon in over a year.

I'm a bear tank with a pally co-tank and we don't have issues with anyone else. Even with a hunter than can pull 19-20k dps, he doesn't get threat because he FD's. Same with our high dps rogue (md).

SO, what can I do to help him? help the raid? help me?

captanmurdoc
03-24-2011, 02:24 PM
make him download omen, when he gets up there in threat have him call out for a salv. if salv is on cd tell him to stand there twiddling his thumbs for a few seconds. hell do more damage white hitting than he will dead.

grizlee
03-24-2011, 05:56 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. We require Omen from raiders but don't mean they look at them ;) The Hand of Salvation tip is a great idea and we'll talk with the pally tank about it..

Rowdy
03-25-2011, 06:29 AM
After the tank got some vengeance-stacks it should be imopssible for anyone to pull aggro, if the tank is doing his job right. However, the first 10-30 seconds can be very difficult in terms of threat due to miss-streaks of the tank (no aggro, and especially no rage forWarriors/Bears) and of the boss (= no vengeance, no rage). DPS just have to watch Omen very closely until the tank starts doing 20+k TPS. I think your Warrior just sticks out because he canīt reset/reduce his aggro like most of the other classes.

grizlee
03-25-2011, 08:12 AM
The biggest problems come with kiting and swaps. Here's a couple of examples from omnitron.

1. Early after picking up Acanotron and he puts down the buff you have to move him out of, moving him back just enough to get him out of the circle and warrior pulls him, gets him back in the circle, and dies quickly.

2. Robot swap: Have one toward the front of the room where you come in, off tank has the second robot, I move halfway to the middle to pickup the third bot. Before i can even hit him and start to kite him back, warrior is going full tilt on him. Result, he gets aggro and dies. I have to go and pull it out and end up spending too much time with 2,3 boss back to back.

I believe part of the issue is not understanding how threat works on his part. But I also want to give him the benefit of the doubt to a degree since as far as I can tell, warriors (arms or fury) don't have an aggro dump like MD or ToT.

Bung
03-25-2011, 10:09 AM
This guy has to learn that it is his responsibility to survive as well as dps. I would tell him not to use all of his cooldowns at the beginning of a fight as well as give the tank a 5 second head start before starting to dps. The salve idea works as well, but shouldn't be totally necessary all the time. Take advantage of hunter's MD and rogues tricks at the start of a fight.

Pseudocide
03-25-2011, 10:15 AM
Sounds to me like his eyes might be glued on Recount instead of focusing on more important things like Omen. If he always has issues with Arcanotron he should try not standing in the buff zone...On boss swaps he should do other things like debuff, apply rend, etc before going balls out. What is his gear like? Does he vastly outgear your tanks? My Arms set is at 357 and I almost never pull threat, and if I do its my fault; attacking too early, poorly timed cooldowns, too much AoE.

It basically sounds like he is just going balls to the wall expecting others to pay attention to the peripherals while he tunnels the boss.

doom1992
03-25-2011, 10:48 AM
I have the same problem he does. I have to stop DPSing entirely for several seconds often in the fight (I have omen). The way I have dealt with it is to wait a lot longer at the start, or at aggro resets. Instead of 3 - 5 seconds I wait 10 seconds before charging in and nuking. I also don't blow my cooldowns untill at least 30 seconds in. This should ensure that the tanks have a considerable ammount of threat before he starts pulling high threat. By that time, due to vengeance, the tanks should be doing the same TPS as the warrior, and probably more. However if the warrior is already at the threat level of the tanks, then thats when he could pull aggro. Instead, its better to lose 5 seconds dpsing at the start, to not have to stop in the middle of the fight. On fights like omnitron, when the aggro switches, maybe have him on arcanatron, focusing on interupts, or tell him not to use slam untill after he has used 3 mortal strikes, it reduces his aggro for a while at the start so that the tank has a comfortable ammount of threat. Tell him that if at any point, hes within 100k threat of the main tank, he should immediately stop dpsing, and wait till his threat is lower. (Don't say a percentage, because on a 10 minute fight, 10% threat difference could be almost a million threat.) If it is a fight which you need that extra dps, have a pally (preferably a ret, because the healer needs to keep low players targetted, and the offtanks need to always watch the boss) use hand of salvation on him. In my guild's raids, when I call "salv me pls" on vent, I normally get it. Our pallies actually have hand of salvation on their bars because of me lol.

Loganisis
03-25-2011, 11:46 AM
The biggest problems come with kiting and swaps. Here's a couple of examples from omnitron.

1. Early after picking up Acanotron and he puts down the buff you have to move him out of, moving him back just enough to get him out of the circle and warrior pulls him, gets him back in the circle, and dies quickly.

2. Robot swap: Have one toward the front of the room where you come in, off tank has the second robot, I move halfway to the middle to pickup the third bot. Before i can even hit him and start to kite him back, warrior is going full tilt on him. Result, he gets aggro and dies. I have to go and pull it out and end up spending too much time with 2,3 boss back to back.

I believe part of the issue is not understanding how threat works on his part. But I also want to give him the benefit of the doubt to a degree since as far as I can tell, warriors (arms or fury) don't have an aggro dump like MD or ToT.


Don't. He'll never learn. He's dumb DPS basically.

1. Kiting - if the tank is kiting a boss they're not going to be able to use every GCD for threat... kited things have this very annoying habbit of stopping suddenly to cast. Aggro will be lower. DPS needs to pay attention.

2. Boss Swaps - when the robots activate, at least on the first pass, they have no aggro table. If he's mid Deathwish or just gets a lucky crit string right after a CS right off the bad, he will pull aggro.


My suggestion - have this guy to tank some heroics to understand what tanks are going through. That will probably help open his eyes more than anything. Let him see how threat actually works, that you can't just pewpew and think you're doing a good job as DPS.

1stormchaser
03-25-2011, 07:41 PM
As a fellow Warrior, I can understand it is very easy for us to gain agro but this is mostly because of running with a poor tank. Unfortunately, shit happens even with the best of tanks. When this happens we have to cut back. Like the post said earlier, Omen or a good threat meter, needs to mandatory. The general 5 sec rule should be in place, not just with Warriors but all DPS. If players have to wait 10 secs then it's time to get a new tank. Using the right kind of ability at the proper time will help a lot with agro issues. Using the wrong ability at the wrong time is probably a result of the player looking to increase their dps or they just don't know how to play their class. Either reason will tell you if they know how to play. One can tell how experienced a raider really is by watching their agro. This was especially true during BC where learning and watching your agro was necessary. If any player continues to over-look their threat issue, the player needs to sit and not raid and then go and learn how to play their class. Understand though, a good tank will probably not have a threat loss issue.