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Antithesys
03-17-2011, 08:37 PM
Hello folks I was wondering if I could get some tips or advice on Tanking Heroic Halfus as a Blood DK. We tried this the other night with me as the 3rd tank. I was tanking storm warden and was to taunt off the Pally after he got to 5 stacks the second time (he bubbled off the first 5) almost immediatly after I taunted I was up to 5 stacks and dead, taking consistant hits upwards of 65k, I dont think I even got both diseases up let alone a death strike. I thought I was resonably geared compared to the other 2 tanks but aparently there is some issue. (Link to my Armory... http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/antithesys/advanced ) I would appreciate any tips / thoughts on reforging / regemming / enchants or Spec.

Netheras
03-17-2011, 09:59 PM
I can't say much to Heroic Halfus as I haven't been that far.

I will say that you have two things that struck me immediately as far as gear and spec go.

One: Your spec looks fine, but take the points in Virulence out and put them into Epidemic. Longer diseases means a bit more damage reduction. Sort of assuming you had them in there from when you needed to spec for interrupts. Get rid of your DS glyph and grab up the DC glyph so that you're getting the maximum benefit from that CD. If you're using the DnD glyph for damage or aoe threat then I understand, but single target you'll want Rune Strike.

Two: What are you aiming for in your avoidance? Are you focused on Mastery or Dodge/Parry? If you aren't focused on one or the other, balancing them out will actually increase your damage intake. So don't do that. Maximize one or the other. Right now Mastery seems to be the better choice in pretty much all situations. This means that whatever route you go, you're going to have to consolidate your gems and move towards one side or the other. Going into heroic content you'll probably want to have a bit more health as well - you should probably have a bit more gear from the regular modes in my opinion.

Something else to think about: If you have diseases up on one of your targets already, you should probably just pestilence so that your next target will already have them up. They aren't as important as a DS however, you just need to get them up for your damage reduction.

EDIT: and you're missing one tinker.

Thats all I have for now.

MellvarTank
03-18-2011, 08:06 AM
I see a lot of blues. I'm not really surprised that you are getting annihilated. You will need some fairly serious upgrades.

gigglepants
03-18-2011, 09:49 AM
We've been having the same issue on 10man for our blood dk. Im a prot warrior and take the first 10 stacks which are bubbled off, then i take the next 5 or so, all this takes about 40sec to a minute(about 3-4 seconds/stack as i recall, this might be longer), and sometimes when our Blood DK taunts off, he'll have 7-8 stacks in 15 seconds.

Antithesys
03-18-2011, 04:47 PM
The biggest downfall I know of as a DK compaired to our Pally and Warrior tanks is we need to Hit our targets to gain a shield where they already have theirs equiped and have stat bonuses from them (I.E. Block). I will try re-gemming and enchanting for pure Mastery and see if that helps on the non-heroic attempts before we throw ourselves into the heroic fire again.

Netheras
03-18-2011, 07:58 PM
And get more gear if at all possible. I think we all agree that it is surprising you don't have more gear.

Yes, you do need to hit, but it is rare that you will miss so many times that you won't get your DS off in time. Plus our block mechanic heals us, and for more depending on when we do it.

Antithesys
03-19-2011, 07:45 PM
Well the main reason for the lack of gear is that I am primairily a Frost DPS DK and have had to get my gear AFTER the 2 main tanks get their gear.

Kardiac
03-20-2011, 01:37 PM
There can be many reasons that this can be happening.
1. When you taunt you should have the previous tank of halfus taunt one of your drakes so you aren't tanking 2 drakes and halfus.
2. Avoidable Damage, as a DK Tank myself i have found it hard to see the fireballs on the ground if you bunch up, make sure to avoid these they add alot of avoidable damage, AMS through some can be used but they'll still do some damage you should be avoiding
3. Each tank you have should have atleast 1 healer assigned to them if not more. This can really only be done on 25 man since 10 man that would require your whole healing core to focus heal your tanks. On 25 man my guild runs 4 tanks(pally, DK, warrior, pally) so that we have 2 people who can bubble off stacks and then we have me. Each of us has our own healer and the other 4 healers(we run 8 healers) either help heal the tanks or focus on healing the raid.
4. Gear, yes your gear does lack a little compared to others, it may be drops haven't happened, but finding the most up-to-date way of reforging and enchanting can help you compensate will you catch up gear-wise.
5. This one goes along with #3 if your raid is taking all the fireballs to the face and not caring to move, it can put a large toll on your healers, even those who are healing the tanks may have to waste mana on dps who should have moved, a healer going out of mana can be really, really deadly.n
6. Use your cooldowns liberally, i use Vampric Blood when tanking the two drakes then use my Icebound Fortitude for when i'm tanking halfus past 2-3 stacks and during dragon taunt transition because you will be tanking two dragons with 5 stacks of the debuff. Otherwise use your sacrifice on Halfus phase and rune tap whenever it is up.

My Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/dragonmaw/kardiac/simple

winglswldcrd
03-23-2011, 08:15 PM
There's alot of problems with the mechanic without enough mitigation you take alot of stacks really fast. Theres alot of theory crafting behind blood dk's atm and untill blizzard really gets their head out of their ass there isnt much we can do.

Further more since I havn't seen the posters gear I can't comment but unless you have the current t11 gear you do not need to be in a Heroic 10 or 25m anyone that says difference is out of their minds. This is brand new content when wrath came out there was no such thing as tanks in Blues in H10/25's. Also your spec isn't up to par tread starter.

Here's mine, you'd do well to copy it. You can feel free to replace the DeathGrip Talent for epidemic, Virulence is for DPS, DnD w/ norm OutBreak and Pestilence is all you will need as it scales with AttackPower you should have all the aggro you need. If someone pulls off you then they are not using omen and switching targets.

Heres what Ive noticed mitigation is very usefull but on boss fights its hit or miss, mastery might be better on Boss fights but its downfall is trash where the higher mitigation is needed.

Ive posted about the issues with DK tanking to blizz, the only thing that I can think of to balance DK's with other tanks is BoneShield becoming the mastery.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/whisperwind/asopus/advanced

Muggins
03-24-2011, 05:01 AM
Considering the Wound debuff will only stack up if Halfus actually manages to land a hit on you DKs have one of the best cooldowns available in the shape of Dancing Rune Weapon, the 20% parry provided will significantly slow the rate stacks are applied. Pairing this with an avoidance trinket, either a clicky like the Vial/Impetuous Query or a passive like Throngus' Finger(your armoury is showing dps gear at the moment so can't check what you have i'm afraid), and an agility pot (~4% dodge i believe) will severely slow the rate you gain stacks making you much easier to heal. You won't always have them ready again for the next switch but the first one is usually the most dangerous when the healers are at full stretch.

As you're primarily DPS do you only tank for Halfus or do you tend to pitch in tanking wise for other fights as well? If its just halfus I would recommend reforging and gemming strongly for avoidance as this is the one of the major fights that leans heavily towards avoidance being better than mastery purely because of the Wound mechanic. If however you find yourself tanking elsewhere then you may certainly want to look at a more balanced set of stats.

As for the fight itself make sure you're prepared for when you're having to switch, make sure you don't blow DRW and Bone Shield(obviously you can have it prepared before the pull however) on the storm rider at the start, save it for the taunt.

Keep an eye on the Tank you're taunting off as well, when you see he's hop'ed the stacks off start going down an internal checklist:

- Have i got enough Runic Power to pop DRW on the taunt? If not start pooling.

- Have i pestilenced my diseases from the Storm Rider recently? If not then do so now to make sure they're up before you taunt.

- How is my positioning? Am i sat in fire barrages? Will halfus move or turn if i taunt him from here? Will i have to turn my back to the Storm Rider to face Halfus?

- Time to pop my ghoul! Get him out early and he'll still have time to do some dps if it turns out you have to munch him to stay alive.

Then when he reaches 5 stacks and you taunt pop your DRW/BS/pot/trinket and start Death Striking away as normal, don't be afraid to pop cooldowns either as this is easily the most dangerous part of the fight for you. AMS will absorb a nice chunk of the scorching breath/barrages, VB will help counteract the stacks and if you're still taking too much damage feel free to pop IBF.

If after all that you're still dying even with low stacks either your gear will need some significant improvement or something will need to change on the healing assignments.

Hope it helps.

Superworm
03-25-2011, 01:27 AM
Unless you have a combat log here, no one actually knows what's your problem. If you were getting stacks really fast, then it could be that you were not facing Halfus and he was landing every hit on you. DK tanks don't have an disadvantage in avoidance AFAIK if your gear level is not way too below your companion paladin/warrior tank. In fact DK tanks have this amazing DRW CD which counters MS stacking.

In your description, you said you even didn't have the time to have both diseases up before you died which actually can not happen as long as you were using outburst. Halfus hits fast, yet he has 25% chance to miss (that is, if you released the proper drake), so it's not that big of a deal. Just use your CDs properly. Pop your IBF when you're taunting Halfus and make sure your partner taunts the drake off you quickly.

Another aspect is about your strategy. How many drakes you release at the start? You said you were only tanking 1 drake. Are you supposed to tank the drake + Halfus when you taunted? Then you need your raid to burn Storm fast before you run out of CDs. However I would recommend your companion paladin tank HoP you when you got to 5 stacks or something to clear the debuffs, and then you can obviously last longer. I myself have only tanked the 25 HM, and I got my stacks cleared at 8 stacks.

winglswldcrd
03-28-2011, 01:51 AM
I agree, without a detailed combat log there's no way anyone here can help with any certainty, we can all speculate and guess all day long, but if your not in the Current Teir tank gear then you shouldn't be in hard mode's since I haven't seen your gear I cant say, also rotating your cool downs is a great way to stay alive and take the burden off the healers some. Cause lets face it that is one of the heaviest healing encounters yet.

Ive played with my tank alot, going pure dodge/parry, stam, and mastery, so far I like the mastery the best and having 200k+ hp doesnt hurt either.

If your dodge isnt around 12-15, your parry at 18-22, and your mastery well over 100% total then you should think about changing that up some. AskMrRobot.com is a great resource to help refine your tank toon and get every inch of life you can out of it.

swelt
03-28-2011, 06:32 AM
Well the main reason for the lack of gear is that I am primairily a Frost DPS DK and have had to get my gear AFTER the 2 main tanks get their gear.

Perhaps your raid leader should be giving you an easier job then. The tanks with the best gear should probably be the ones tanking halfus. When we brought an undergeared tank to that fight, I had him tanking no more than 1 drake at a time. That said, we normally use 4 tanks for halfus (25 man).

Illidra
03-28-2011, 07:33 AM
unless you have maybe only 1 blue left if not full epic, than i wouldtn let you anywhere near tankging hc mode bosses which hit like a f'in truck.

winglswldcrd
04-08-2011, 12:38 AM
Yeah I couldnt agree more, if your not in full t11 gear you dont need to be in t11.5 (T11-Heroics). You need to go back to non Heroic 10/25 mans and get your blue(s) replaced. While some/most/alot/all will not be a HUGE Upgrade, it doesnt matter since every single little bit helps. You have to remember Cata is like vanilla was, where +11 was epic and made you do that 2% more dmg or avoid 2% more.