View Full Version : Tanking Prot Warrior seeks Advice on multi Target tanking
03-08-2011, 12:26 AM
after reading for some time the invaluable advice on tanking I have to ask for exactly this advice.
I have started again tanking since Cataclysm and don't seem to be able to quickly enough bind multiple targets. My worst experience was during an encounter with Halfus Wyrmbreaker. I was not able to tank the whelps correctly. Heal aggro was higher than what I could do to bind them to me.
My armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/der-rat-von-dalaran/othomi/simple
Is there anything wrong with my talents or gear?
Any advice on which order to use the multi target attacks?
Thanks for reading.
03-08-2011, 01:06 AM
Make sure rend is up and vigilance on the other tank. With BnT tanking the whelps should be easymode.
I start at the spot the whelps are 'spawning' and depending if i need to release/tank something else i let a dps release them or do it myself. Starting with thunderclap>shockwave>rend>tc there really shouldn't be any threatissues after that priorities shockwave>tc and cleave all you like. Cleavespam with inner rage is also awesome.
03-08-2011, 01:40 AM
For whelps: a Shockwave to start off, that gives you a decent threat lead. Shieldblock to generate some rage via blocking, rend and thunderclap to spread it afterwards. Cleave with Inner Rage, Revenge on cooldown and there you go.
a) proper specc
At least +war academy, +incite, -gag order, -rude interruption. +aggro is always good, utility talents over aggro talents with aggro problems? nah.. Thunderstruck is debatable over Incite, Piercing Howl only if you have to kite a lot (eg Maloriak add duty & no hunter or other aoe slows present). Blood Craze is okay'ish while learning new stuff and healer getting used to it, i prefer Deep Wounds over it.
b) proper glyphs
Shockwave & Cleave Glyph to further support your aoe aggro greatly. Heroic throw might be okay for dps to save a global but you'll use devastate anyway. Spell reflect has it's uses for pvp, not in pve raids. And shieldwall.. well there are very few fights where you don't want to 120s shieldwalls for those O'Shit situations.
Intimdating Shout glyph.. well i love berserker rage one. +5 rage every 30s is five more then you got :D
c) proper gems
You selected gems of all art.. strength, expertise, dodge.. just don't
Pick one route, either stamina heavy (red: stamina/parry, blue: stamina and yellow mastery/stamina) or mastery heavy (red: parry/mastery, blue: mastery/stamina and yellow mastery) and stick to it. The difference is roughly 8k hitpoints versus 3% block, i recommend mastery for nonheroic raids
d) proper enchanting
If you have aggro problems picking expertise and hit might be an obvious choice, but after vengeance kicked in you need neither any longer. So it's just about handling those first 30s of the fight and dealing with the threat struggling. Hitting the right buttons and it shouldn't be a problem.
feet: mastery or stamina/runspeed
bracer: 50 dodge
e) proper reforging
same as for enchanting, you want to survive on the long run. So mastery & avoidance (parry/dodge) is the way to go.
head: expertise to mastery
chest: expertise to mastery
wrist: expertise to mastery
weapon: hit to dodge
ranged: expertise to mastery
legs: expertise to mastery
buy another blue ring (http://www.wowhead.com/item=62440) and reforge expertise to dodge
trinket: parry to mastery
03-08-2011, 01:58 AM
looking through your armory link i can advice you to do the following:
try to rebuild your spec to something like 8/2/31 (take WA and DW and Cruelty (or blood craze if you want so))
at the end of the day you will have less utility (-PH, longer cd on heroic throw etc.) but gain in aggro
also i highly recommend to change some glyphs (Shieldwall is kinda situational, so in most scenarios you don't need it), take cleaving instead (+1 target is neet for ae threat), trading spell reflect glyph to TC one would be also nice (anyways you are not in constant need of spell reflect for normal raids)
I would like to add something to Bigbads advice:
do not start with TC, for better aggro ask MT to pull Halfy to the point where whelps become hostile, by doing so you can pre-rend Halfy and then TC whelps (you are gonna like this beginning, gives you better threat).
so your beginning should be
rend Halfy and wait till whelps become hostile then TC them ASAP, then continue with shockwave-some random filler like demo shout+cleave-TC and keep doing so till whelps are down (before 4.0.6 this was the only way to maintain threat on whelps on heroic halfy (increased rend damage rules))
Any class misdirection would also help in picking them, but you'll need to maintain threat, so TC and Shockwave are your friends.
Imo no need in reforging/regemming etc (expertise not needed, cause TC and Shockwave can't be dodged/parried), i did heroic halfus with 0 +hit and 6 expertise (was tanking whelps and time warden).
P.S. forgot about shockwave glyph and vigilance on other tank (well, this things seem obvious to me)
03-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Thank you for your prompt replies. I will try out some of your advice this evening and keep you posted :-)
03-16-2011, 04:42 AM
I heeded your advice and things got better. Gemming now twards mastery - I reached now 19,51 mastery points. My question would now be - how many mastery points do I need to be immune to crits when using shield block? I have tried figuring out, but I am not sure I end up with the right numbers. My only concern now is to reach a point where the healers in my guild can focus a bit more on group dmg than they do already. The ring "Red Rock Band" is better concerning mastery than the epic I am wearing now, I just need the stamina though. If things work well like this I wil keep the epic.
03-16-2011, 05:24 AM
You should be immune to crits all the time because of Bastion of Defense. It's hits you want to get imunte to with Shield Block. Anyway, it's not mastery (block) alone that dedicates if you are hit immune or not. It's the combination of boss misses + parry + dodge + block. If the sum is at least 102.4% than you are hit-immune. Boss miss chance is always 5%. Shield Block gives you 25% block (or is converted to crit block with everything that takes you over 102.4%). So you need to get to a combined parry + dodge + block of 72.4% to be hit-immune (or unhittble as it's called most of the time) with Shield Block up.
Well and you don't need stamina for the content you are faciing at the moment. All you need comes with gear. If you are hard to heal at the moment, that's an indicator that you should go for more mastery. Because it's the stat that helps your healers most. If they run out of mana or you are dying slowly because they cannot manage to get you up fast enough, that points to mastery. The only thing that would point to more stamina is if you die because of few hard hits that cannot be dealt with in another way (like with CDs, trinkets, interrupts, other abilites or someone else taking them).
(Btw: If you want to have comments from people not speaking german as I happen to do, you should link the english armory. Thats: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/der-rat-von-dalaran/othomi/advanced - If you would prefere answers in german write me a privat message, since it's my native language.
So now to your gear. Your dodge is a little bit too high compared to your parry. Parry should be "slightly" higher than dodge because of Hold the Line talent. You should look at your ratings (not percentages) while buffed and get parry rating nearer to 1.5 x dodge rating. You don't have to go there full out because your mastery is still not very high, but it's where you should be eventually.
Also: If healers have problems, gem for more mastery. In normal raids stamina is less important than to get mastery up. At least if one already has some epics. Never gem for hit and expertise as a warrior tank. (Or if you do so be really sure why you are doing so and what fore.) Use:
non-important bonuses: mastery
Now I'll comment your different slots.
Head: gem mastery+parry, you would get more mastey by reforging dodge->mastery, just because there is so much more dodge present on the item. The difference is so high, that it would be ok to do so, even if it may result in a lower combat table coverage.
Neck: undo the reforging
Shoulder: gem stam+mastery, undo the reforging
Chest: fine (consider to get the t11 one with your JP next, it's best in slot)
Wrists: again the difference between dodge and expertise is so high, that you would get much more mastery by reforging dodge->mastery
Hands: use mastery enchant, consider to reforge dodge->parry
Waist: ok, maybe reforge dodge->parry
Legs: gem parry+mastery, again reforging dodge->mastery would give you much more mastery
Feet: undo the reforging
1. ring: maybe reforge dodge->mastery
2. ring: again dodge->mastery woud give you more mastery
1. trinket: reforge parry->mastery
2. trinket: pure mastery gem
weapon: reforge hit->parry
ranged: reforge expertise->parry
- There are some items, where I've said that dodge->mastery would give you more mastery. If you want to get as much mastery as possible, go for it. But your own reforgings are ok, too. Which one is better depends on more or less all other stats you have. As a rule of thumb: if dodge/parry on an item is 1.5 higher than hit/expertise it may be better to reforge dodge/parry to mastery. If you want to know the most effective reforging you have to use tools like spreadsheats or rawr to answer which one would be exactly better.
- I've mentiond some items to reforge dodge->parry. Before you do that, do everything else what you want to do from the list. Than look at your dodge and parry buffed and decide if you want to increase parry even more. Only if that is the case, do the reforgings.
03-27-2011, 05:28 AM
I again modified some things - thanks for your advice Katzazi. At last it feels right how things go now.
My skill ist also now adapted to my guild's raid so things are going quite well now.