View Full Version : Warrior PTR Patch Notes - Buff Flurry, decrease mastery?

03-01-2011, 06:11 PM
Okay. Looking at the patch notes. Increase RB, decrease CS. -6 mastery (which is about what, a 1.34 modifer?), double flurry.

Looking at this - this seems to be pushing SMF to the top? The mastery decrease, even with the RB return to 120% is a net decrease and SMF benefits from Flurry more than TG because it's not based on Weapon Speed, but rather a static 9 seconds, so SMF gets more swings per flurry than RB and thus more benefit?

I love the Flurry change, but if it's not based on Weapon damage, it seems to be a bigger buff to SMF than TG and with them already so close, this would really push SMF to the top clearly?

The benefit coming from SMF has a higher chance to re-proc and keep Flurry going than TG inside of a Flurry

03-01-2011, 06:22 PM
eh, the bigger buff to TG with flurry is that it has a larger net effect on the slow weapon speeds of 2handers I'd believe.

03-01-2011, 06:23 PM
I dont get how Flurry is based on a static 9 seconds?
It boosts your melee haste by 25/50% for the next 3 swings.

unless you can find somwhere that says its active for 9 seconds, then it is totally based on weapons speed VS crit chance.

And as far as weapon damage comes into play. It is also dependent on weapon damage. You would get more out of flurry with say.. a weapon that has a max damage of 3k, rather than one that can do 1600 max. right?

But aside from that SMF's weapon damage is higher in general anyway. not on the weapon itself, but after the buffs that SMF gives to them.
So in a way, flurry benefits from this increase while RB doesnt.

I have yet to try anything on the PTR, but it seems to me like it will be about even, even with the -6 mastery we got.

03-01-2011, 07:14 PM

Doh. Got Flurry's proc and the enrage proc based off melee hits confused in my head. That's a big 'ol brain fart.

Kaz... - 6 mastery is 2*.056 = .112 isn't it? So if

RB = 100% right now.
RB is always affected by Mastery as it requires an enrage.

So right now RB base is 100% * 8 mastery = .448
So, currently RB = 100% * 1.448 = 144.8%
With the change RB = 120% * 1.112 = 133.44%

So post patch

Or am I screwing something up? Which is entirely possible.

Wait, let me try something...

100 * 10 mastery = 100*1.56 = 156%
100 * 12 mastery = 100*1.672 = 167.2%
100 * 15 mastery = 100*1.84 = 184%

120 * 4 mastery = 1.2*1.224 = 146.88%
120 * 6 mastery = 1.2*1.336 = 160.32%
120 * 9 mastery = 1.2*1.504 = 180.48%

Okay, so factoring in the -6 mastery, when you start getting to 9 or 10 mastery from gear alone, it will start to buff RB, but below that point the increase to 120% weapon damage and reduction of 6 mastery would be a decrease?

03-01-2011, 07:20 PM
youre forgetting something. because i know for sure my RB's tool tip says i do more than that much weapon damage in my gear. i cant log on right now. im at work.

Requiring an enrage for RB doesnt mean much. It could be the enrage you spec into, or the enrage from berzeker rage, or death wish.
The only thing that is effecting RB really is the amount of weapon damage its doing, and how much damage the enrage effect is giving you (but thats effecting everything so we can just not count that in to any equation and still be correct)

03-01-2011, 11:52 PM
Okay. I wasn't factoring in the 1.64 multiplier from Just having Unshackled Fury.

So 1.0 (base) * <1 + (.64 + 11*.56)> = 1 * (1+(.64 + ~.62)) = 1 * (1+1.26) = 1 * 2.26 = tooltip's 226% (well tooltip is 227%, but I'm sure I've got sloppy rounding in there)

So even with a 6 mastery nerf, the base of unshackled fury meets the minimum point where the multiplicitve value of 1.2 is greater than the 6 mastery decrease.

Why do I feel like I'm re-learing the ArP math all over again?

Thanks for putting up with me as I talk this out. Sometime I miss the blatently obvious.

03-02-2011, 12:02 AM
Why do I feel like I'm re-learing the ArP math all over again?

arp was never this complicated.

03-02-2011, 12:27 AM
arp was never this complicated.

I don't think this is complicated, it's just getting your head around it, which was the complicated thing about ArP.

It's pretty easy to understand now. damage = (Weapon Damage modifier) * (.64 base Unshackled Fury + (.056*Mastery))

It just looks more complicated and it's new, so it's easy to forget things, like unshackled fury which isn't talented or an ability anywhere, you have to remember to look at your tree summary XD

03-03-2011, 11:12 PM
Fresh off the latest patch notes:

*Precision - (passive) now increases auto-attack damage by 40%, in addition to the 3% hit it offers currently.

This change apparently coopts the change to Flurry. This would seemingly increase the relative values of +hit and +haste.

03-03-2011, 11:32 PM
I wonder by how much though? It would seem to be more like a buff that attempts to make Fury less bursty and more sustained.

In TG, even if you have only 8% hit, you're looking at 19% miss rate, so 81% of white attacks are already landing. Each 1% lands 1 more % of white damage, whereas if you put that 1% into crit, it's going to affect the 81% of white landing plus your GCDs that land.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, that +hit will become more valuable (+haste will still be bottom of the barrel in all likilihood) to the point of maybe approaching mastery, but it's still going to be a crit world and reforging into hit when you could have reforged into crit and likely even mastery will be a loss if you're pushing the limits of the class.

I think this ends up being more of a passive damage buff.

Assuming a 6 minute, 360 second fight with 3.8 weapon speed weapons...

You're looking at 240 GCDs and ~190 white attacks, which with procs (Flurry, maybe hurricane, hero, dk/hunter buff) is probably closer to 250 at the most.

81% of 250 is 203 white hits already. 1% more hit would be another 2-3 white hits. Meanwhile, when subtracting out non-direct DPS GCDs, you're looking at probably 220 GCDs + 203 white hits to be affected by 1% crit, which would be roughly another 2 crits. If they're both white attacks, it's basically a wash. If they're yellow, crit is a DPS gain.

At least I think that's how it works.

My guess is the debuff to CS was bigger than they thought but rather than add burst back in they wanted to find another way to maintain or who knows, even buff possibly, DPS so increasing white damage made sense as it's a fairly steady and controllable source of damage.

03-04-2011, 03:06 AM
That is a little too simple loganis.

hit>more rage>more HS and HS crits>more flurry
crit> more flurry

Not sure how the interaction of HS, flurry and more damage on white hits will works out. Think it will still be crit>hit past 8%>mastery>haste but i'll leave that too the math geniuses out there.

03-04-2011, 09:00 AM
That is a little too simple loganis.

hit>more rage>more HS and HS crits>more flurry
crit> more flurry

Not sure how the interaction of HS, flurry and more damage on white hits will works out. Think it will still be crit>hit past 8%>mastery>haste but i'll leave that too the math geniuses out there.

Hit past 8% if you're in 333s and 346s maybe. But once you're working into 346s and 359s, the additive nature of the mastery benefit makes it eqaul to multiple attacks.

Once you get enough mastery to matter, HSs won't compare is my thinking. Honestly, I think mastery in the next tier could start to push Crit.

HS simply doesn't hit hard enough. And 2 more white melees, that's what, roughly 50 rage? Is that a GCD you don't push back an attack to use a battle shout, or do you actually get a HS out of it?

There might be an inflection point, but it's unlikely. It does make hit compartively more valuable, but not enough.

03-04-2011, 09:12 AM
This is now a non issue as they removed Flurry and replaced it with 40% extra White Damage.

This is why we gotta be careful when theorycrafting PTR changes; they change far too quickly. Let's just take a quick look and see what they say, discuss it, but don't go too much into details when it comes to that. PTRs are fickle beasts and may change at any notice. :)

03-04-2011, 09:44 AM
Well sure, the original topic is a non-starter -though it did help me understand unshackled fury. So that's a bonus.

Now it's wondering if the the rage from roughly equal number of crits versus whites will make hit appropach haste. If the extra white damage plus rage makes hit > mastery now.