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Gwindel
02-23-2011, 12:05 PM
Hello I'm a pretty new pally tank and I'm having a hard time keeping agro. When ever there seems to be more then 4 mobs I lose agro or if anyone starts pullin over 18k ill start losing it until my taunts are ready again on cooldown. I am using everything I can that I'm aware of and still losing agro. It might be a gear problem I haven't been able to play too much for this guy but here he is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/jaedenar/scrum/simple
2 lucky drops tho....

Doc309
02-23-2011, 12:13 PM
what is the rotation that you use for AoE.

Gwindel
02-23-2011, 01:09 PM
Hos on top dps right before pulling, then AS, Hammer of Right, Hand of Reck on anyhting i dont have, Cons, Judgement and RD in whenever i need it

Doc309
02-23-2011, 01:56 PM
CS has no place in an AoE rotation. use Hammer of the Righteous.

AoE rotation (simplified after pull)
HotR, Judgement,
HotR, Consecrate ( if C on CD, Holy Wrath.)
HotR, you got 3 Holy Power SPEND IT.... Inquisition for more AoE, WoG if you need heals, or Shield of the Righteous if you want to help kill the skull target first.

basically build holy power as quick as you can and spend it wisely. for AoE that means HotR every second ability. and prioritize the AoE spells , judgement ( for mana return)>holy wrath>Avengers Shield>consecrate ( if you put it up pre pull its probably still on cd)... (more or less) ...with pally AoE it all depends on what is off CD.

after 3-4 GCDs ( with a bit of vengence... ) you shouldn't need to RD anything.

Gwindel
02-23-2011, 02:31 PM
Yeah I'm sorry I didn't mean Crusader Strike what I meant was consecration, I do use my holy power as well I don't know why I didn't include that.

Contravene
02-23-2011, 02:37 PM
I am a newbie too, perhaps a newbie who has conquered this problem can help.. First never use a spam macro...

If I have lost agro from fear, stun or because I choked on my pepsi I can always get it right back, because I leave some things available.. Do an AOE/Cons and then directly taunt is my advice for trying to get agro once you have lost it. (since you use cons, you want to use judgement soon now to get mana back) You see you hit them with hammer of righteous for example to get on the agro charts, cons for (dmg+12)*3 the agro off that last hit you made then taunt to get the monster you are directly dealing with under control. If you have divine plea off cooldown then you can punch that and inq to pull well ahead again, and my DPS are pulling 13k+..

But anyway you are missing a trinket and that counts against entire item level, and therefore I believe your problem is gear level in comparison with your peers

Gwindel
02-23-2011, 08:55 PM
What should my hit be at?

Contravene
02-23-2011, 11:16 PM
Gwindel I use an Addon called Playerscore/Gearscore (Hopefully you do as well)... If installed on your character screen = c you can press a little arrow on the bottom right and Playerscore will open. In the section for melee hover over "hit rating".. See the levels listed and next to it is "your chance to miss if fighting a mob at that level"... So 87 for Cata Dungeons, currently I am at 3.59% chance to miss, this interferes with rotation if you miss because you don't proc HoPo.. If you don't get to 3 x HoPo before using, etc etc right.. This part you know this is our beloved rotation.. My problem isn't missing HoPo procs or aggro, so I dump it into avoidance. But now you can reforge into hit rating and understand precisely what is happening.

I use a couple more important addons.. Tidy Plates is health bars for each monster basically i.e. name plates. It has a color for if you are tanking it and another for if you don't have it anymore. Blue/Orange is mine.. Getting threat back quickly is a big part of it.. Also it has a little cast bar right on it so you can see when to interrupt stuff. Second addon I use is Clique, which is a macro addon with coolness. Unlike default macros you can make it unlimited sized and etc, but I only have 3 main macros.. CTRL+RIGHT CLICK over a players hud pic will cast Righteous Defense, SHIFT+Right Click over a player hud will cast Hand of Protection and ALT+Right Click will cast hand of Salvation.. So I hover over a players hud pic when I see they have agro and ctrl+right click and my attention is back in the game.

P.S. Don't forget to disable any default key bindings on keys you want to make macros on.. I use Page Down for Rebuke, it took me an hour to figure out why it wouldn't work. I also have delete key is Lay of Hands, End is use item buffs, I keep it a low number of macros tho, keep it simple..

Hamhead
02-24-2011, 02:15 AM
If it helps the simplest thing to do is just to ask for a second or two to build agro...I appreciate that this may not be a 'Pro' thing to but do it is the simplest option whilst you get there, 2 seconds gives vengeance enough time to ramp up your threat.

Would use Holy wrath instead of Cons as Consecrate burns mana and you fight to build it back.

I'm happy for people to shoot me down but I run with seal of truth on mob packs as the dot applies through HotR and Captain America...ahem...Avenger's Shield. A sheild throw, backed up by smacking the one you didn't sheild with Judgement and then Hammer...Packs stick to me unless a DK goes nuts and uses Death Grip or the hunter's pet is still growl enabled..these are the common reasons we have agro issues..watch for the taunt graphic on mobs you're not taunting.

Hit shouldn't be a major issue, your taunts are unmissable and you will pick up hit as you go. Yes it's annoying to watch your sheild fly off into the distance and feel like everyone's laughing, but when a tank folds because they don't have the survivability they'll seriously bitch at you. For now, focus on survivability and let hit and expertise come as they will.

I don't think myself an awesome tank but I've not had a problem in normals or heroics based on the above.

Contravene
02-24-2011, 10:43 AM
I am having such little threat problems I am glyph'd and I run Insight. But my rotation even without insight does support the use of Cons. It is not a necessary component of keeping threat and honestly I rarely use it outside of a pug. But you can use it, don't think you can't.

Zee786
02-24-2011, 11:52 AM
Just a few things
judgement of the wise is part of your judgment so u get 30% of your mana back over 10 seconds so consecration shouldn't be a problem if u keep your judgement up. Best to use seal of truth for agro. On the pull mark your targets use avengers shield, Devine plea and shield of the righteous that's instant threat lead on that target. Hammer, judge, consecrate/holy wrath etc.
Also as far as I have read growl is not a taunt although it is a threat modifier but it increases threat by a tiny proportion of the threat tanks generate.

Buffalowings
02-25-2011, 01:18 AM
Start by marking targets; Skull for the first target and X for the second target. When running in hit skull with Avenger's Shield - Hotr - Judgement. This way unless someone goes nuts on AOE you will a solid lead on threat on the first target, and by the time the dps switches to the second target you won't have any agro problems.

If you have problems then ask the dps for some help. Simple example is a hunter misdirect which helps ALOT.
CC helps too since there is now 1 less target to worry about. In packs of 4 mobs this will mean your Avengers schield just hit all the targets posible and so will Hotr.

And If none of this works spec into the reduced cooldown on Hand of protection and cast it on the person causing trouble. They usualy get the point after 1 or 2 packs.

Zee786
02-25-2011, 01:45 PM
Start by marking targets; Skull for the first target and X for the second target. When running in hit skull with Avenger's Shield - Hotr - Judgement. This way unless someone goes nuts on AOE you will a solid lead on threat on the first target, and by the time the dps switches to the second target you won't have any agro problems.

If you have problems then ask the dps for some help. Simple example is a hunter misdirect which helps ALOT.
CC helps too since there is now 1 less target to worry about. In packs of 4 mobs this will mean your Avengers schield just hit all the targets posible and so will Hotr.

And If none of this works spec into the reduced cooldown on Hand of protection and cast it on the person causing trouble. They usualy get the point after 1 or 2 packs.

Try this first. If it doesn't work Mark up again avengers shield, Devine plea(gives 3 holy power), shield of the righteous on skull. Huge aggro no way any dps is getting that mob of you.